Ras-I Dowling released

[50-yard-line]

I have no objection to pointing out misfires when appropriate. It is no different than when someone posts film demonstrating that so-and-so screwed up his coverage responsibilities.

What amuses me is when fans pry out failures in an otherwise excellent draft as if there is some mythical team out there that never misses on a draft pick. That is the underlying subtext and why it is relevant to remind the board once in a while that Bill's drafting compares favorably to supposedly superior GMs in the last 5 years and in his tenure.

Exactly, and that's my point.

The Patriots are never in a great draft position, even when they have a lot of picks. They're ALWAYS at the bottom of the first round, because they're ALWAYS in the hunt.

So they take fliers, sometimes based on health concerns, sometimes based on character issues, sometimes based on things they see in someone beyond the scouting reports. They do it with free agents and they do it with trades and with the draft.

Corey Dillon was a troublemaker.
Ditto LaGarrett Blount.
Moss was washed up.
Kelly is over-the-hill.
Welker wasn't worth what they paid.
Gronk was a health concern.
Dowling a health concern.
Wilson drafted too high.

And on and on. Some work out, others don't. The thing is, the Pats DO NOT draft high enough to take "safe" picks to continue to fill out every position. Teams like the Seahawks rise to prominence now because they've been drafting in the top of the first round for the last decade. The Colts' future is bright because they were the worst team in football in a year when a generational QB was coming out.

Yet without all of that, the Pats continue to win, and it's not just Brady. There's a reason why the last 5 guys cut from the Pats each year get snapped up.

So sure, call it out when they screw, but pretending that you're somehow "giving it" to BB is pathetic. And wallowing in misery over a sports franchise where every post is wah effing wah...I mean, really?

 

[RobAllan]

The Patriots are never in a great draft position, even when they have a lot of picks. They're ALWAYS at the bottom of the first round, because they're ALWAYS in the hunt.

I hate to nitpick a post because I don't want to be "that guy," but I really have to do it here as I couldn't even make it past this paragraph.

1. On what planet is a first round pick not great draft position? Any first round pick is a good pick. You should probably be able to say the same about the second round too. Bottom of first round is not bad draft position. That's just insanity.

2. If they were "just taking fliers" anyway (because apparently we give up after the top 10 picks...) they could bundle some picks and trade up into the great draft positions of which you speak.

I'm all for dismissing draft misses in rounds 4-7 because teams "take fliers" sometimes. But to start saying that about rounds 1 and 2 is criminal. If they are "taking fliers" at pick 33, someone should be outright fired.

 

[Kontradiction]

Why?

That's a serious question.

Why? What do YOU gain by giving them **** for picks that didn't work out.

Bottom line: they're the best franchise in the league over the last dozen years. They're playing deep into January every year.

You're not giving them ****, you're just venting on a board full of fans - so what really is accomplished by p***ing and m***ing? Seriously, who cares?

I'm sorry to see that it didn't work out with Dowling, This defense is thin at interior DL, and now seems thin at CB. Two needs instead of one. That's not good. I was hoping Dowling could get past it and get on the field, because he has the physical gifts to really excel at CB, Talib-like. Also, from the tapes I saw from his college days, seems like a good kid.

His body couldn't take the NFL, apparently. Sucks, but it is what it is.

As for giving BB and the organization ****, well...

Just win.

And thank you for the last 12 years. I remember 30 before that.

So then we should just shut the board down and call it quits? Observer made a good point. A point that has been made in the past by many posters here. If we can praise BB for the unconventional picks that worked out, ****ting on him for terrible picks is fair game. Now, I don't think Dowling was terrible, per se. But it was a gamble with the injury he sustained in his last year in college. That gamble didn't work out. Dowling is now ANOTHER draft misfire in the secondary and, because of it, we're going into another year where the depth at CB is paper thin. If you don't like us discussing that, then delete your account, your browser's history, and remove this forum from your favorites because this obviously isn't the place for you.

 

[Oswlek]

I hate to nitpick a post because I don't want to be "that guy," but I really have to do it here as I couldn't even make it past this paragraph.

1. On what planet is a first round pick not great draft position? Any first round pick is a good pick. You should probably be able to say the same about the second round too. Bottom of first round is not bad draft position. That's just insanity.

2. If they were "just taking fliers" anyway (because apparently we give up after the top 10 picks...) they could bundle some picks and trade up into the great draft positions of which you speak.

I'm all for dismissing draft misses in rounds 4-7 because teams "take fliers" sometimes. But to start saying that about rounds 1 and 2 is criminal. If they are "taking fliers" at pick 33, someone should be outright fired.

He is talking about relative draft position. Picking at 28 isn't remotely the same thing as picking at 10, even though they are both first rounders.

And you should look up success rates in the second round. It is probably much worse than you realize if you think making a flier in the second is a fireable offense. Hell, despite NE's consistent success there, starting mid-way through the first round is a 50/50 proposition, and you will see fliers made by good teams all the time. Truth be told, Clay Matthews was a flier when you consider his actual college resume. Even with his injuries, Ras-I was significantly more productive than Clay.

That said, you do have an argument that you left on the table, and that is the #33 is the very first pick in the second round. You can't be in better relative second round position than that.

 

[Nunchucks]

No, if you are going to praise him for Gronk, Mankins, Light, Seymour, and the like, you certainly cannot complain when one of those picks doesn't work out. You cannot have it both ways. You either eat your crow for being a whiner for picks that were "unconventional" and then get to whine about guys like Dowling, or you are a hypocrite. Taking the opportunity to whine on both ends.

Personally, I do not know enough about college football or even really care. I love NFL football and hope for the best with each pick. Others relish the whining, complaining, and hating on picks...each to their own.

 

[BTTA]

Memo to Bill Belichick: If a player is injury prone in high school and in college then chances are pretty good he will be the same in the NFL.
Please apply this simple formula in all future drafts.
Thank you.

Sigh. If you look at how much time Dowling actually missed, and use that as the standard for eliminating players from consideration, there would be some others on our roster that we'd be rid of that you'd regret.

Dowling was one of ours. His body couldn't recover from the beating it took, and he's probably going to have to give up his chosen career because of it. A career, of course, which 99% of us on the board couldn't handle for the same reason (physically unable to stand the rigors of NFL football).

The disappointment here on the board is understandable. The entitlement (all players on the roster owe us something), the arrogance (I know better than the coaching and scouting staff) is self destructive.

 

[Oswlek]

Dowling is now ANOTHER draft misfire in the secondary and, because of it, we're going into another year where the depth at CB is paper thin.

Yup, and the lack of experienced draftees in the back end is a potential problem. That said, they seem to have improved their drafting in the secondary a great deal in the last 3-4 years.

 

[PatsFan2]

I am not sad to see Dowling go he didn't show us anything and for a guy with a heralded injury history in College he shouldn't have been taken where he was. That said I think KontradictioN posted that BB record for Drafting CB's is now worst than WR's. Ofcourse lets hope our current WR crop buck that trend. I am not holding the Dowling pick against BB, Teams need Good CB's as we can attest to it just didn't work out. Maybe next year we will hit on a CB or Two.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yup, and the lack of experienced draftees in the back end is a potential problem. That said, they seem to have improved their drafting in the secondary a great deal in the last 3-4 years.

Let's have a look. I'll start out in 2010 since that's where the starters in our secondary (draft-wise) began getting drafted...

2010: McCourty - Best FS in the division and potentially one of the best in the AFC. Hit.

2011: Dowling - Injury in final year of college. Injuries continued into the pros. Gamble that has since but cut from the team. Miss.

2012: Wilson - Mostly down rookie season that saw him get benched because of repeated mental errors. By all reports, bad training camp as well. Trending toward miss.

2012: Dennard - Started opposite Talib is rookie season. Excellent press corner and a mauler at the LOS. Trending toward hit.

So, ultimately, they're hitting at a rate of 50%. I didn't include Malcolm Williams on this list, but thought I should list Dennard because he's now a starter and it was noteworthy at the time that his draft stock fell due to the altercation with the cop. Otheriwse, he would have been drafted higher. Not bad. Certainly, as a fan, not where you want the team to be. But it's a far cry from the days of Chung, Wheatley, and Wilhite.

 

[Spiral]

BB had multiple offers for that pick, according to M. Holley. He misjudged the value of that pick, based on the fact that none of the potential trading partners was willing to provide enough in value to satisfy him, and the fact that the player he picked in that spot wasn't worth taking in the slot he was drafted. All round bad effort by the GM.

 

[Oswlek]

Let's have a look. I'll start out in 2010 since that's where the starters in our secondary (draft-wise) began getting drafted...

2010: McCourty - Best FS in the division and potentially one of the best in the AFC. Hit.

2011: Dowling - Injury in final year of college. Injuries continued into the pros. Gamble that has since but cut from the team. Miss.

2012: Wilson - Mostly down rookie season that saw him get benched because of repeated mental errors. By all reports, bad training camp as well. Trending toward miss.

2012: Dennard - Started opposite Talib is rookie season. Excellent press corner and a mauler at the LOS. Trending toward hit.

So, ultimately, they're hitting at a rate of 50%. I didn't include Malcolm Williams on this list, but thought I should list Dennard because he's now a starter and it was noteworthy at the time that his draft stock fell due to the altercation with the cop. Otheriwse, he would have been drafted higher. Not bad. Certainly, as a fan, not where you want the team to be. But it's a far cry from the days of Chung, Wheatley, and Wilhite.

50% is more than acceptable, particularly when you are talking about only one first rounder.

 

[reflexblue]

i'm shocked i tell ya Shocked what a wast of a 2nd rnd draft pick.

 

[Kontradiction]

50% is more than acceptable, particularly when you are talking about only one first rounder. It is actually above average.

I didn't say it was unacceptable. I just said that, as a fan, I would like the hit rate to be higher. Wouldn't you?

 

[everlong]

I think he's under the limit and is still practice squad eligible.

 

[Brady6]

Let's have a look. I'll start out in 2010 since that's where the starters in our secondary (draft-wise) began getting drafted...

2010: McCourty - Best FS in the division and potentially one of the best in the AFC. Hit.

2011: Dowling - Injury in final year of college. Injuries continued into the pros. Gamble that has since but cut from the team. Miss.

2012: Wilson - Mostly down rookie season that saw him get benched because of repeated mental errors. By all reports, bad training camp as well. Trending toward miss.

2012: Dennard - Started opposite Talib is rookie season. Excellent press corner and a mauler at the LOS. Trending toward hit.

So, ultimately, they're hitting at a rate of 50%. I didn't include Malcolm Williams on this list, but thought I should list Dennard because he's now a starter and it was noteworthy at the time that his draft stock fell due to the altercation with the cop. Otheriwse, he would have been drafted higher. Not bad. Certainly, as a fan, not where you want the team to be. But it's a far cry from the days of Chung, Wheatley, and Wilhite.

Looking back at the last 3 drafts a lot of teams have missed at the CB position, and we’ve actually selected 2 players that were top contributors in their draft class.

2012
Claiborne, Morris
Gilmore, Stephon
Kirkpatrick, Dre
Jenkins, Janoris
Hayward, Casey
Johnson, Trumaine
Robinson, Josh
Fleming, Jamell
Bentley, Dwight
Hosley, Jayron
Bolden, Omar
Sensabaugh, Coty
Boykin, Brandon
Brooks, Ronnie
Blanton, Robert
Norman, Josh
Menzie, DeQuan
Greenwood, Chris
Prater, Shaun
Jackson, Asa
Lane, Jeremy
Tandy, Keith
Harris, Mike
Bethel, Justin
Frey, Isaiah
Green, Jonte
Bernstine, Jordan
McCoy, Greg
Dennard, Alfonzo
Wade, Trevin
Frederick, Terrence

2011
Peterson, Patrick
Amukamara, Prince
Smith, Jimmy
Dowling, Ras-I
Williams, Aaron
Harris, Brandon
Van Dyke, DeMarcus
Patrick, Johnny
Wright, Shareece
Marsh, Curtis
Brown, Curtis
Hogan, Brandon
Chekwa, Chimdi
Brown, Jalil
Carmichael, Rashad
Allen, Cortez
House, Davon
Skrine, Daryl
Burton, Brandon
Thomas, Josh
Issac, Rod
Sherman, Richard
Brown, Chykie
Maxwell, Byron
Rucker, Chris
Rogers, Justin
Lindsey-Woods, Korey
Thompson, Brandyn
Baker, Mikail
Williams, Malcolm
Gaitor, Anthony
Wilson, Jimmy

2010
Haden, Joe
Jackson, Kareem
McCourty, Devin
Wilson, Kyle
Robinson, Patrick
Cook, Chris
Arenas, Javier
Murphy, Jerome
Spievey, Amari
Lewis, Myron
Thomas, Kevin
Ghee, Brandon
Verner, Alterraun
Lindley, Trevard
Thurmond, Walter
Franks, Dominique
Cox, Perrish
McFadden, Walter
Moore, Joshua
McManis, Sherrick
Carroll, Nolan
Butler, Crezdon
Wall, Jamar
Calvin, Jorrick
Pugh, Jordan
McGee, Scotty
Johnson, Marquis
Ware, Jeremy
Stanford, RJ
Adams, Phillip
Thompson, Syd'Quan
Fisher, Ray
McClain, Robert

 

[Brady6]

50% is more than acceptable, particularly when you are talking about only one first rounder.

Another reason the Dowling pick cannot simply be labeled as a bad selection is that the injury that occurred to him in his rookie season appears to be the problem; it appears to have been a career changing injury that diminished his ability to move laterally, affected his speed and his agility. If that injury never occurred who knows, but you cannot project a career ending or career changing injury so to say he was just a bad selection and Belichick ****ed up, that is something I would have to disagree with, Dowling looked like a damn good pick in his the 2 games he played in his rookie season, that player has been gone since though and in my opinion he is never going to be capable of being that player again, despite modern medicine being incredible.

One interesting thing in my mind is Dowling and Bequette both received rave reviews for their work in OTA’s, it is amazing how much putting the pads on changes things.

 

[reflexblue]

when it comes to drafting DB's and WR's the GM of the patriots is well below 50%. going back ten years i'd say the success rate is 5-10% for the GM. Off the top of my head i can only think of one quality receiver (branch) and a couple of DB's Mcourty and he was drafted as a CB) and (can't think of his name, he was a fourth rnd pick that moved on to the eagles.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why are people white knighting the Dowling choice? Dowling's a bust. It was a bad pick, and that happens. it doesn't make Dowling a bad person, the Patriots bad people or drafters, and it happened in an otherwise solid draft, so it's not as if this one miss is what that draft year is all about.

 

[Banjo]

Instead of Ryan Mallett barely outplaying Tim Tebow, we could have had Colin Kaepernick as Brady's successor. READ OPTION!!

That would have been awesome.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Looking back at the last 3 drafts a lot of teams have missed at the CB position, and we’ve actually selected 2 players that were top contributors in their draft class.

2012
Claiborne, Morris
Gilmore, Stephon
Kirkpatrick, Dre
Jenkins, Janoris
Hayward, Casey
Johnson, Trumaine
Robinson, Josh
Fleming, Jamell
Bentley, Dwight
Hosley, Jayron
Bolden, Omar
Sensabaugh, Coty
Boykin, Brandon
Brooks, Ronnie
Blanton, Robert
Norman, Josh
Menzie, DeQuan
Greenwood, Chris
Prater, Shaun
Jackson, Asa
Lane, Jeremy
Tandy, Keith
Harris, Mike
Bethel, Justin
Frey, Isaiah
Green, Jonte
Bernstine, Jordan
McCoy, Greg
Dennard, Alfonzo
Wade, Trevin
Frederick, Terrence

2011
Peterson, Patrick
Amukamara, Prince
Smith, Jimmy
Dowling, Ras-I
Williams, Aaron
Harris, Brandon
Van Dyke, DeMarcus
Patrick, Johnny
Wright, Shareece
Marsh, Curtis
Brown, Curtis
Hogan, Brandon
Chekwa, Chimdi
Brown, Jalil
Carmichael, Rashad
Allen, Cortez
House, Davon
Skrine, Daryl
Burton, Brandon
Thomas, Josh
Issac, Rod
Sherman, Richard
Brown, Chykie
Maxwell, Byron
Rucker, Chris
Rogers, Justin
Lindsey-Woods, Korey
Thompson, Brandyn
Baker, Mikail
Williams, Malcolm
Gaitor, Anthony
Wilson, Jimmy

2010
Haden, Joe
Jackson, Kareem
McCourty, Devin
Wilson, Kyle
Robinson, Patrick
Cook, Chris
Arenas, Javier
Murphy, Jerome
Spievey, Amari
Lewis, Myron
Thomas, Kevin
Ghee, Brandon
Verner, Alterraun
Lindley, Trevard
Thurmond, Walter
Franks, Dominique
Cox, Perrish
McFadden, Walter
Moore, Joshua
McManis, Sherrick
Carroll, Nolan
Butler, Crezdon
Wall, Jamar
Calvin, Jorrick
Pugh, Jordan
McGee, Scotty
Johnson, Marquis
Ware, Jeremy
Stanford, RJ
Adams, Phillip
Thompson, Syd'Quan
Fisher, Ray
McClain, Robert

2010- We drafted one of the four best secondary players in the entire draft at pick 27. (Eric Berry, Joe Haden, Earl Thomas, Devin McCourty) Pretty damn good considering we had no shot at the other 3.

2011-Dowling, bust, fail, gameover.

21 CBs drafted above Sherman, scouts really do suck sometimes.

2012- We drafted one of the five best CBs in the 7th round. (Morris Claiborne, Stephon Gilmore, Janoris Jenkins, Casey Hayward, Alfonzo Dennard)

2/3, well done.