Has Tim Tebow earned a roster spot on the Patriots?

[ATippett56]

As are most of us--me included, but luckily for everyone Bill Belichick doesn't use our "expert" analysis to determine his roster every year or we'd be in trouble.

All we can do is trust in his method. The whole damn thing hasn't made much sense (unless the plan was to use him in different roles), so I don't think any of us should be too surprised to find out that he actually makes the 53 man roster at the end of the week, if that's what happens.

If Belichick feels that Tebow has potential now or in the future, then obviously he'd be just fine with the current makeup of the offensive line, the running backs, and the tight end depth. It isn't like any of these 3 positions scream out "weakness" at the moment anyway, is it?

In my opinion, Tim Tebow is better off going the CFL route, since if it was good enough for Doug Flutie it should be good enough for Tim Tebow.

 

[supafly]

In my opinion, Tim Tebow is better off going the CFL route, since if it was good enough for Doug Flutie it should be good enough for Tim Tebow.

And maybe you end up being correct and that eventually happens, but in the meantime I'm certainly going to try and learn from my past mistakes of thinking that I definitely can read the mind of Bill Belichick and wait until Saturday.

In the meantime, I'm going to try my best and stay out of this debate any further. I've spoken my piece, and don't really have much of anything else to add. It's not like I don't respect your opinion, I just feel that there could potentially be a lot more to just preseason evaluations. The possibility exists that Belichick knew that he was a poor QB and was going to make an attempt at keeping him on for a year and seeing if any improvements were made.

We will have to see.

 

[Demosthenes]

Allow me to rephrase:

Tim Tebow did not participate in one snap in the New England Patriots' third preseason game.

Fact or Fiction?

Here's a classic example of a huge problem. Sure, it's an absolute fact that Tebow did not participate in one snap in the third preseason game.

The only FACT that you can take from this is that Tebow didn't participate in a single snap in the third preseason game.

So a guy like you comes along, sees this fact, then jumps to conclusions as to what this fact means. You make a number of presumptions and then you mistakenly believe that these presumptions are an actual fact.

In the Detroit game, Tom Brady played the entire first half and I believe he had 42-44 snaps on 9 possessions (not counting the kneel down). Ryan Mallett played the entire second half and notched 34 snaps in total in 4 drives. Prior to his last drive of the game, he had only taken 22 snaps.

While coaches will talk in terms of how many quarters a QB will play, they really look at snap counts. For example, if Brady had only had 3 drives and 12 plays in the first half, with Detroit eating up huge chunks of the clock, he most likely would have played well into the 3rd quarter.

Similarly, if the Pats D had stopped Detroit from eating up huge chunks of the clock, it's very likely that Tebow would have gotten some snaps once Mallett had gotten some decent work in. That's the life of a 3rd string QB. They get their's after the 1st and 2nd stringers do


BTW, with all that said, the things I stated above aren't "Facts", rather, they are the conclusions that were reached by bothering to use logic and reason .

 

[ATippett56]

If Belichick feels that Tebow has potential now or in the future, then obviously he'd be just fine with the current makeup of the offensive line, the running backs, and the tight end depth. It isn't like any of these 3 positions scream out "weakness" at the moment anyway, is it?

With regard to tight end depth (Fells recently MIA, Ballard a gimp, Hooman a JAG, Gronkowski on PUP) and offensive line depth (Cannon recently MIA, a competent backup center needed), I would question the current depth at the two aforementioned positions.

 

[DarrylS]

On a serious note, or as serious as I can be on another Tebow thread...

Reviewing the roster predictions this morning it seems as though it is coming down to a choice between Tebow and Dowling... if so that really complicates this discussion...

 

[JoeSixPat]

The only reason he should make the roster is IF Bill thinks he should for whatever reasons Bill might have.

Don't confuse "want" with "should". I WANT Tebow to make the roster. That doesn't mean I think he SHOULD.

I feel pretty safe in saying that most the people on the list you posted feel the same way.

I'm not sure when or why it happened, but most Patsfans - at least here - seem openly opposed to Tebow.

My M.O. is to be supportive of every guy that Belichick has chosen to wear the uniform, until such time that he decides they are not worthy. Until that time - if and when it comes - I strongly support every Patriot and openly pull for them to do well.

Tebow seems to be the exception to the rule for most everyone. I think even Albert Haynesworth had more support around here.

I'm not quite sure why that is but I do have some theories - though it does not put the anti-Tebow folks in a good light.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not sure when or why it happened, but most Patsfans - at least here - seem openly opposed to Tebow.

My M.O. is to be supportive of every guy that Belichick has chosen to wear the uniform, until such time that he decides they are not worthy. Until that time - if and when it comes - I strongly support every Patriot and openly pull for them to do well.

Tebow seems to be the exception to the rule for most everyone. I think even Albert Haynesworth had more support around here.

I'm not quite sure why that is but I do have some theories - though it does not put the anti-Tebow folks in a good light.

I'm not against Tebow at all. I just don't think he's earned a spot on the roster. And, being that I'm a fan of the laundry first and foremost, I don't want anybody to make the team that I feel hasn't earned it first. I'm open to him changing my mind though.

Also, big LOL to Ironman44 for accusing long standing contributors to this board of trolling. Some of us remember you rubbing 18-1 in our faces after Denver exited the playoffs a couple of years ago.

 

[manxman2601]

I'm not sure when or why it happened, but most Patsfans - at least here - seem openly opposed to Tebow.

My M.O. is to be supportive of every guy that Belichick has chosen to wear the uniform, until such time that he decides they are not worthy. Until that time - if and when it comes - I strongly support every Patriot and openly pull for them to do well.

Tebow seems to be the exception to the rule for most everyone. I think even Albert Haynesworth had more support around here.

I'm not quite sure why that is but I do have some theories - though it does not put the anti-Tebow folks in a good light.

Well said. I don't think it's possible to dislike someone as much as some do purely on football grounds.

 

[Oinko]

I guess this thread kind of illustrates what keeps me coming back to interest in Tebow -- it's the fascination his haters have to see him fail.

I'm used to my teams losing. I'm used to my college teams' recruits not panning out. I'm used to players I followed in college not making it in the pros. It happens the vast majority of the time.

But with Tebow, there's something about life mixed up in the message. About keeping on, trying, not letting the criticism stop you. It's inspiring to people.

I've been waiting for things to get quiet for years -- I assumed in 2007 that he'd never be a pro. Everything since has been a surprise. What makes it more engaging is all the people just waiting for him to fail -- the bar keeps getting lowered.

I thought for sure this time things would be quiet. He's a third stringer. Not here to start, or even contend for anything. Not here to do "packages." Just here to be Chase Daniels. And still, the notion that he might be cut has his haters excited.

And so, the measly stakes of making the team are now interesting -- more than they should be. Because there is so much excitement to see him cut. Congratulations, Ivan. It's folks like you that keep him interesting to folks like me.

Now, the player that should have me bored, the player I've been ready to move on with for a while is now fascinating again. Because if he makes the squad I'll get to see some heads explode. That's an occurrence I can learn from, draw upon in my daily life. Don't ever let 'em get you down. Keep plugging. Keep striving. No matter what the level, ignore the critics and get out of the bed the next day and go on.

 

[Ironman44]

Also, big LOL to Ironman44 for accusing long standing contributors to this board of trolling. Some of us remember you rubbing 18-1 in our faces after Denver exited the playoffs a couple of years ago.

I thought I would not be accepted if I didn't accuse someone of trolling ...... on a serious note I am going to give you the benifite of the doubt and simply say you remember it wrong .

It was a comment made in regards to laughing at Ravens fans and for this board to try to keep it classy and nothing to do with Denver at all. It was certainly not rubbing it in anyone's face and members here agreed with me.

 

[Remarker]

i said that you want him on there despite how poorly he has performed and that's a fact.

The FACT is, you have no idea what someone else wants unless you are told by that person and then you must decide if you believe them or not.

If a thread is filled with a person saying to others, 'What you think is (fill in the blank) and then proceeds in a debate, that person is essentially debating with themselves.

A little heads up; Based on your (Ivan's) comments, I've learned trying to make points on the merits with you is a waste of time. However, I'm amused by bustin' you for the absurdities in your comments.
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This links to a Joker comment. My reply is; Want to guess how much I value what you say about Tim or his fans?..Football is a different matter. Fwiw, I was making my edit while you were posting the linked comment and before I read your snide remark.
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As for Tebow, his "development" as a QB basically stopped after Josh was fired from Denver. Fox and McCoy didn't do much with him until he was named the starter, and even then, the work they did with him was game plan specific kind of stuff, not the normal work you do with young development QBs. As for the Jets, under Tony Sparano ? Are you kidding ?

As you know and has been recognized (by Meyer too) and reported, it's not like Meyer touched Tim's mechanics. He was content with the wins.
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No, of course the public perception is going to be that he hasn't earned a roster spot. What else should they think? He's absolutely sucked in the preseason games so far, and the practice/TC reports have been pretty awful too. The question is a no-brainer.

BUT...it's not up to the fans, the media, or the public--so if Bill Belichick thinks that he can offer something to the benefit of the team, he'll make the roster. After all, none of us are privvy to the information that Belichick sees and knows about him.

Exactly and pretty much why this poll is just another useless poll looking for a way to trash Tim. A reasonable poll would be to ask, Will Tim make the roster? yes or no, that would have comments about why. Another reasonable poll would be to ask, Will BB keep Tim? yes or no, that would have comments speculating on what BB thinks.

Why this poll thread has its own life is beyond me.

 

[Kontradiction]

I thought I would not be accepted if I didn't accuse someone of trolling ...... on a serious note I am going to give you the benifite of the doubt and simply say you remember it wrong .

It was a comment made in regards to laughing at Ravens fans and for this board to try to keep it classy and nothing to do with Denver at all. It was certainly not rubbing it in anyone's face and members here agreed with me.

I got the team wrong but remember the verbiage pretty clearly. You were advising us to not laugh at the misery of Ravens fans (most of whom had just spent the previous week trolling) for the loss and brought up 18-1 as a reminder. If that's not trolling, then I can't really think of another reason to bring it up four years later. Not surprisingly, it got a few bites, the best of which I believe was from Uncle Rico explaining that we couldn't even get on the forum because it crashed from so many fans of other teams that had come to rub it in our face. So yeah, you trolled. And you used one of the worst losses in this Franchise's history to do it.

 

[MassPats38]

I'm not sure when or why it happened, but most Patsfans - at least here - seem openly opposed to Tebow.

My M.O. is to be supportive of every guy that Belichick has chosen to wear the uniform, until such time that he decides they are not worthy. Until that time - if and when it comes - I strongly support every Patriot and openly pull for them to do well.

Tebow seems to be the exception to the rule for most everyone. I think even Albert Haynesworth had more support around here.

I'm not quite sure why that is but I do have some theories - though it does not put the anti-Tebow folks in a good light.

I don't know if that is true generally with regard to his support here. Early on, I suspect most were okay with letting the scenario play out, and would cheer for the guy if he proved he can play for the Pats. That has not happened. Some of the negativity is possibly attributable to some less than rational debates over his performance in the NFL. I am sure some of this negativity is opposition to what he stands for, or opposition to his fan base. Typically in preseason, when a player stinks it is stated after a game and left alone shortly thereafter. With Tebow, there is an infinite loop of that discussion well after the game based on repeated defenses of "what could be" based on a 'magical' 8-8 Broncos season in 2011 with a playoff win. That characterization largely turns on a single completed pass in a playoff game in Denver to one of the more talented receivers currently in the NFL. In reality, without that pass, most would forget the 2011 Broncos.

53 players will wear a Pats uniform, and there are 85 on the roster. I, and I suspect many others, will cheer for the guys who creates the best possible team in the end. Only the Pats veterans have earned the right to wear that uniform. For 32 players right now, that uniform is on loan and will be returned very shortly. I do not cheer for players to fail. With that said, I do not expect fans to applaud when a player performs as Tebow has this preseason. If he makes the cut, for reasons I cannot fathom based on what I have seen in his time on the field, I hope he proves himself a worthy acquisition. He is paid to play, so he will not get the "good job" clap when trying out for this team that would be appropriate for pee wee football players - certainly not when his horrid level of play makes me want to turn the television off.

As for Haynesworth, he probably did have a good deal more positive press here because (1) he was a former two time all-pro defensive lineman, who at his best was one of the best in the game (no rational person can say that of Tebow - many would say that of Haynesworth), (2) fans wanted to believe he would be that again with the right team/leadership, and (3) the Pats' defense needed to improve. You also did not have ardent Haynesworth supporters appearing here and arguing by analogy that Hayneworth was a pillar of the community and the modern day Reggie White, despite his history (and no, I am not claiming Tebow is not a pillar of the community, rather that Haynesworth was himself not one so that type of debate would be irrational and invoke a rather negative response, especially when repeated ad nauseam).

I have nothing against Tebow or his supporters. I assume he is here for a reason, and will stay only if he represents a value added for the team on the field. My "leap of faith" is in the head coach, and his history of ruthless, calculating business decisions implemented to put the best team on the field in a given season. Also, I will take that leap based on the fact that fans do not see or hear of much that goes on behind the scenes, and there may be a method to the madness if Tebow stays. As stated before, I would love to hear the reason some day if that turns out to be the case.

 

[ivanvamp]

No. To be honest, I'll be slightly disappointed in Belichick, McDaniels and Caserio if Tebow does make the final 53 man roster. That said, it's Kraft's franchise and Belichick's team so they can do what they like with it.

I agree with this 100%. I'll reiterate my view that I stated a week ago or so. There are too many other players that the team really could use other than a 3rd QB that we all (well, most of us) hope never sees the field in a meaningful situation. I'd rather use that roster spot to keep an extra OL, DL, DB, WR, RB, TE, whatever.

And if BB really wants to keep Tebow, I honestly think that no other team in the league will pick him up after seeing him perform this preseason. So BB could theoretically say, Tim, we'll keep you on speed-dial, and maybe even find some way to keep working with him (I have no idea if he's practice squad eligible, but even if he isn't, there has to be a way). And then he's just a phone call away in the event that they need him for some reason.

 

[Ironman44]

I got the team wrong but remember the verbiage pretty clearly. You were advising us to not laugh at the misery of Ravens fans (most of whom had just spent the previous week trolling) for the loss and brought up 18-1 as a reminder. If that's not trolling, then I can't really think of another reason to bring it up four years later. Not surprisingly, it got a few bites, the best of which I believe was from Uncle Rico explaining that we couldn't even get on the forum because it crashed from so many fans of other teams that had come to rub it in our face. So yeah, you trolled. And you used one of the worst losses in this Franchise's history to do it.

It wasn't a troll and I'll stand by what I said which is that no one should generate bad karma that way ( except when it comes to the Jets ......always laugh at the Jets ), in retrospect I should not have brought it up, your right on that part ( I'll admit that I could have made my point in a better way, I'll concede that right now ) . I won't post any more responses in this thread about this after all there is little Tebow bashing time left so let's not waste it on past disagreements .

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree with this 100%. I'll reiterate my view that I stated a week ago or so. There are too many other players that the team really could use other than a 3rd QB that we all (well, most of us) hope never sees the field in a meaningful situation. I'd rather use that roster spot to keep an extra OL, DL, DB, WR, RB, TE, whatever.

And if BB really wants to keep Tebow, I honestly think that no other team in the league will pick him up after seeing him perform this preseason. So BB could theoretically say, Tim, we'll keep you on speed-dial, and maybe even find some way to keep working with him (I have no idea if he's practice squad eligible, but even if he isn't, there has to be a way). And then he's just a phone call away in the event that they need him for some reason.

The only way I see Tebow making this team is if the staff brought him in purely for the reason of giving the defense looks against a quarterback that can run the read option in practice. Outside of that, I have no idea what business Tebow would have making the squad. He's not a fit for the Ehrhardt-Perkins and looked downright terrible in it. When the team ran some read option plays, he looked decent on some plays, bad on others, and inconsistent as a whole. He doesn't look confident in the pocket at all. So if he's to earn his spot on the roster purely on what he has shown (which is what this thread is centered on), then I don't think he has. Too bad because he's a good guy and a good locker room presence. But if Belichick thinks the team needs him as a third QB to give the defense looks against the read option in practice, then I could see making a roster spot for him. There are a couple of guys that the team could cut to make room.

 

[Kontradiction]

It wasn't a troll and I'll stand by what I said which is that no one should generate bad karma that way ( except when it comes to the Jets ......always laugh at the Jets ), in retrospect I should not have brought it up, your right on that part ( I'll admit that I could have made my point in a better way, I'll concede that right now ) . I won't post any more responses in this thread about this after all there is little Tebow bashing time left so let's not waste it on past disagreements .

It was definitely a troll. There were a host of other games in the past and one that had just concluded a year before that you could have used. But you chose to use Super Bowl XLII and called it 18-1 to boot. It's fine that you're a member here now and have contributed to the forum, both with thoughtful, reasoned posts and financially, but you did come here at one time to drop off a troll post as a fan from an opposing team. With that said, you should think next time you call someone a troll. As I stated before, some of us remember that.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The FACT is, you have no idea what someone else wants unless you are told by that person and then you must decide if you believe them or not.

If a thread is filled with a person saying to others, 'What you think is (fill in the blank) and then proceeds in a debate, that person is essentially debating with themselves.

A little heads up; Based on your (Ivan's) comments, I've learned trying to make points on the merits with you is a waste of time. However, I'm amused by bustin' you for the absurdities in your comments.
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This links to a Joker comment. My reply is; Want to guess how much I value what you say about Tim or his fans?..Football is a different matter. Fwiw, I was making my edit while you were posting the linked comment and before I read your snide remark.
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As you know and has been recognized (by Meyer too) and reported, it's not like Meyer touched Tim's mechanics. He was content with the wins.
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Exactly and pretty much why this poll is just another useless poll looking for a way to trash Tim. A reasonable poll would be to ask, Will Tim make the roster? yes or no, that would have comments about why. Another reasonable poll would be to ask, Will BB keep Tim? yes or no, that would have comments speculating on what BB thinks.

Why this poll thread has its own life is beyond me.

This poll thread has its own life because it is a vvalid question to ask whether or not a player has earned a spot on this team by playing horribly. Don't ike it, too bad, just put it on ignore until Timmy goes to his next team.


Demosthenes has acknowledged that Tebow hasn't played well enough to make the team but still wants him on it, that's "no matter what," and it is your problem that you are too ignorant to understand that. When you know a player doesn't deserve it but still want them on the team then their performance is irrelevant, you just love the player.


Bottom line, you aren't a Patriot fan and really have no business trying to tell us what we can or cannot post. we were here long before you and timmy showed up and we will be here long after both of you are gone, and for me that can't come soon enough.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I followed the tweets coming out of practice that entire week, and many said Tebow was having a real good week, I don't have time to look them all up but this one from the sports writer for the Tampa Tribune stood out


"Coincidentally, Joe*read the Twitter feed of Woody Cummings of the Tampa Tribune who, from Bucs-Patriots joint practice in Foxborough yesterday posted this most unsettling information."

@RCummingsTBO: The most effective QB wearing the number 5 out here today has been Tim Tebow. By a mile. Not a good day for Josh Freeman

lmao-We have had tens of thousands of patriot fans attend practices, many of whom post here, and daily camp threads and NONE of them reported that tebow was playing well, and we have had local media at every practice and pre-season game, and none of them have reported that Tebow was playing well, in fact all who said anything said just the opposite and you turn to "coicidentally Joe" to support your claim that the practice reports on tebow have been positive. Wow, talk about desperate.

 

[Huckleberry1]

On a serious note, or as serious as I can be on another Tebow thread...

Reviewing the roster predictions this morning it seems as though it is coming down to a choice between Tebow and Dowling... if so that really complicates this discussion...

No it doesn't, if I-Dowling makes the team he can actually play his position, Tebow can't. If I-Dowling goes out on the field he will contribute, if Tebow goes out on the field he will kill any chance they have of winning that game. That said I-Dowling is in the same category as tebow in one regard, he really hasn't earned a spot on this roster, but given a choice between the two it is an easy decision.