The Case for 5 RBs

[DarrylStingley]

I just found it weird that you did not know MS was an elite special teamer and you are a huge fan of the team. Maybe you are just a casual fan.

Wrong again. I know the guy is a strong special teamer. That to me does not mean he gets a roster spot in perpetuity or that, at some point, his reputation may not exceed his actual worth. They eventually got rid of Larry Izzo -- true he was older than Slater is now -- so it's not as if being great on teams guarantees you a spot forever.

I follow this team as closely as anyone I know.

 

[Fencer]

Who does Bolden compete with for ST reps -- speed guys or size guys? I normally think of an RB as a speed STer, while an FB would be a size one.

 

[Bruins29]

Wrong again. I know the guy is a strong special teamer. That to me does not mean he gets a roster spot in perpetuity or that, at some point, his reputation may not exceed his actual worth. They eventually got rid of Larry Izzo -- true he was older than Slater is now -- so it's not as if being great on teams guarantees you a spot forever.

I follow this team as closely as anyone I know.

Sure one day you are elite and, and at some point cut. That is not the point. The point is I am entitled to ask someone about why they question MSs worth (which is pretty well known here) and then give that person the benefit of the doubt that they may be a casual fan (which is not an insult). I guess that offended you because you are superfan amongst your friends...

Brandon Bolden as explained is nothing special and I like him. Matt Slater is. Someday he wont be. And then he wont be here.

 

[DarrylStingley]

Sure one day you are elite and, and at some point cut. That is not the point. The point is I am entitled to ask someone about why they question MSs worth (which is pretty well known here) and then give that person the benefit of the doubt that they may be a casual fan (which is not an insult). I guess that offended you because you are superfan amongst your friends...

Brandon Bolden as explained is nothing special and I like him. Matt Slater is. Someday he wont be. And then he wont be here.

I'm a super fan amongst anyone. I don't need to justify myself to you but I've been coming up for games (2-4 per season) from the NY area for decades and following the Pats on a daily and intense basis since I was an 8-year old living in the Boston area. I've seen every kind of Pats team and love them all.

I don't know how old you are but the fact that you have a higher opinion of Matt Slater and his value to this team doesn't make you any more or less of a fan than me.

And I think you overrate MS' importance to this team and are too caught up in the locker room stuff, which I think is likely overblown. Nice that he gave the speech after Boston. Doesn't mean he's not expendable at some point or that he isn't awful as a WR, which should play some role in the overall conversation, albeit not a key one.


I like Bolden a lot but recognize that he's an end of the roster guy right now. That said, I'd strain hard to keep him because I see the potential for greatness there. He may never see the field given the guys ahead of him but I would hate to see them lose a guy who has an 8-yard per carry in a game ability, even against a bad run D like the Bills had last year.

And yes, casual fan is an insult in my book. A passive aggressive insult, but an insult nonetheless. Funny that how we view Matthew Slater is now an indication of whether we're serious fans! I'm not very high on Ghost, either. I'm afraid what you'll conclude from that!

Good day and go Bruins. I love the Ericcson and Iginla moves.....and wonder if Soderberg will make an impact. But that's not for discussion here. Just a note from a fellow Bruins fan....

 

[DarrylS]

I cast a suspicious eye upon anyone who claims that they are more of a fan than another poster... read this board, there are folks who are incredibly intelligent about all things NEP, and that shows without saying how "great" a fan they are..

Right now my guess is that Matthew Slater will make this team, and Brandon Bolden has about a 60-40 chance.

 

[Bruins29]

I don't know how old you are but the fact that you have a higher opinion of Matt Slater and his value to this team doesn't make you any more or less of a fan than me.

Strawman

And I think you overrate MS' importance to this team and are too caught up in the locker room stuff, which I think is likely overblown. Nice that he gave the speech after Boston. Doesn't mean he's not expendable at some point or that he isn't awful as a WR, which should play some role in the overall conversation, albeit not a key one.

You are entitled to your opinion.

And yes, casual fan is an insult in my book. A passive aggressive insult, but an insult nonetheless. Funny that how we view Matthew Slater is now an indication of whether we're serious fans! I'm not very high on Ghost, either. I'm afraid what you'll conclude from that!

More strawman

 

[RayClay]

I'm a casual fan. Longtime, but not obsessed. Plus, I have google.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

And then there's this, he's on all 4 top special teams units. His spot is safe. Right now Washington is only returning kicks, Edelman is the top punt returner. Washington's is playing on 1 special team vs Bolden's 4. Bolden is a better, more versatile and younger RB (23,30). Washington is in danger more so than Bolden. Blount still not a lock but looking good, not sure if he plays any ST.


Special teams personnel notes - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Ditto for second-year running back Brandon Bolden, who showed up on the top kickoff return, kickoff coverage, punt return and punt team units. That reflects his place as a "Big 4" player on special teams. A lot of chatter about how Bolden might be affected by LeGarrette Blount, but part of the reason why I still think he makes the club is his role in the kicking game.

 

[Sicilian]

And then there's this, he's on all 4 top special teams units. His spot is safe.


Special teams personnel notes - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Ditto for second-year running back Brandon Bolden, who showed up on the top kickoff return, kickoff coverage, punt return and punt team units. That reflects his place as a "Big 4" player on special teams. A lot of chatter about how Bolden might be affected by LeGarrette Blount, but part of the reason why I still think he makes the club is his role in the kicking game.

Now see this changes my outlook a little bit. If he's actually a solid contributor on all of the ST units, I would expect him to make the team. The question now becomes, is Blount worth keeping around as a 5th running back, and if he looks like he did against the Eagles going forward, that's a strong argument to make.

 

[JackBauer]

And then there's this, he's on all 4 top special teams units. His spot is safe. Right now Washington is only returning kicks, Edelman is the top punt returner. Washington's is playing on 1 special team vs Bolden's 4. Bolden is a better, more versatile and younger RB (23,30). Washington is in danger more so than Bolden. Blount still not a lock but looking good, not sure if he plays any ST.


Special teams personnel notes - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Ditto for second-year running back Brandon Bolden, who showed up on the top kickoff return, kickoff coverage, punt return and punt team units. That reflects his place as a "Big 4" player on special teams. A lot of chatter about how Bolden might be affected by LeGarrette Blount, but part of the reason why I still think he makes the club is his role in the kicking game.

By all accounts Washington has looked great/explosive, and considering our return game has been lackluster for years I'd say he's got the leg up over Bolden.

 

[BradyFTW!]

And then there's this, he's on all 4 top special teams units. His spot is safe. Right now Washington is only returning kicks, Edelman is the top punt returner. Washington's is playing on 1 special team vs Bolden's 4. Bolden is a better, more versatile and younger RB (23,30). Washington is in danger more so than Bolden. Blount still not a lock but looking good, not sure if he plays any ST.


Special teams personnel notes - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Ditto for second-year running back Brandon Bolden, who showed up on the top kickoff return, kickoff coverage, punt return and punt team units. That reflects his place as a "Big 4" player on special teams. A lot of chatter about how Bolden might be affected by LeGarrette Blount, but part of the reason why I still think he makes the club is his role in the kicking game.

Washington is one of the single best kick returners in the NFL. Even if he only plays on one unit, he contributes at least 4 times as much to that unit as Bolden does to any unit that he's on. I agree that it gives him a real advantage vs. Blount/another bubble player at a different position, though.

 

[BradyFTW!]

And I think you overrate MS' importance to this team and are too caught up in the locker room stuff, which I think is likely overblown. Nice that he gave the speech after Boston. Doesn't mean he's not expendable at some point or that he isn't awful as a WR, which should play some role in the overall conversation, albeit not a key one.

It's not that he's awful as a WR. It's that he isn't a WR. You might as well evaluate Steve Gregory's chances of making the roster based on how good of a WR he is, because in both cases you're evaluating him based on how good he is at a position that he doesn't play.

If you think that Slater is less important to the team than carrying a fifth running back, then you're essentially saying that a guy who will be inactive in almost every game is more important to the team's success than a guy who plays at an All-Pro level on every special teams unit every week. Honestly, I'm running out of ways to explain how clearly and borderline-self-evidently wrong that is. Slater is a really, really good football player, and pretty much the only way to conclude otherwise is if you've first concluded that special teams just don't really matter. Which is wrong, and Belichick would be the first coach in the NFL to nail that point home.

If you want to make the case for a 5th RB, there are a lot of ways to do that, but I'd suggest that you make the case by pointing out how said 5th RB brings more to the table than a bubble player at the end of the roster at another position; not by putting him up against an All-Pro team captain who is pretty much a lock to make the team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wrong again. I know the guy is a strong special teamer. That to me does not mean he gets a roster spot in perpetuity or that, at some point, his reputation may not exceed his actual worth. They eventually got rid of Larry Izzo -- true he was older than Slater is now -- so it's not as if being great on teams guarantees you a spot forever.

I follow this team as closely as anyone I know.

Larry Izzo was:

a) never as good as Slater is.
b) a Patriot until he was 35.

Pointing to Larry Izzo as a reason why Slater might be cut this offseason is akin to pointing to Bruschi in 2010 as a reason why Mayo might be on the chopping block. On multiple levels, it just doesn't work.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Who does Bolden compete with for ST reps -- speed guys or size guys? I normally think of an RB as a speed STer, while an FB would be a size one.

With the banning of the wedge a couple of years back, I think there's less of a distinction than there was in the past, although there still is one to some extent. In general, speed guys have more of an edge than they used to, which should definitely benefit Bolden. I'd put him solidly into the 'speed' category, if forced to classify.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

By all accounts Washington has looked great/explosive, and considering our return game has been lackluster for years I'd say he's got the leg up over Bolden.

I haven't seen or heard any of those reports and I'm not sure how to judge a kick returner from practices but if he still has it, great, we could use a good returner, if he's average than he's not worth a spot. I don't see him being a factor in the RB mix and everyone wants to give him one of 4 supposed spots. If his kick returning skills warrant a roster spot, it's not necessarily going be at Bolden's expense. Bolden has the spot on all 4 ST, rushed for 4.9 yards last year, has fresh legs and can play on passing downs as well. A case can be made for all 5, but when the dust settles I see Bolden on the 53.

 

[Oswlek]

I haven't seen or heard any of those reports and I'm not sure how to judge a kick returner from practices but if he still has it, great, we could use a good returner, if he's average than he's not worth a spot. I don't see him being a factor in the RB mix and everyone wants to give him one of 4 supposed spots. If his kick returning skills warrant a roster spot, it's not necessarily going be at Bolden's expense. Bolden has the spot on all 4 ST, rushed for 4.9 yards last year, has fresh legs and can play on passing downs as well. A case can be made for all 5, but when the dust settles I see Bolden on the 53.

I've seen a number of those reports, and others that indicate he looks better than advertised as a scrimage RB. More importantly, Washington has been an elite KO returner for years now, with last year actually being the best yards/return of his career, so he isn't showing signs of slowing down.

Add in the fact that his is the only backup receiving back on the team and he is absolutely a lock to make the roster.

Bolden may very well make the team, and his ST contributions make that more likely, but his ypc is an unconvincing stat considering how much one game plays into the numbers.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I've seen a number of those reports, and others that indicate he looks better than advertised as a scrimage RB. More importantly, Washington has been an elite KO returner for years now, with last year actually being the best yards/return of his career, so he isn't showing signs of slowing down.

Add in the fact that his is the only backup receiving back on the team and he is absolutely a lock to make the roster.

Bolden may very well make the team, and his ST contributions make that more likely, but his ypc is an unconvincing stat considering how much one game plays into the numbers.

Not saying the reports on Washington weren't true, just saying I haven't seen them.

You take out the big games and big runs from any RB and the average dips. In the game he was used the most he was the most productive. His YPC is what it is, no need to discount it. You could take Blount's big run away from his last exhibition game and his numbers don't look as good. What's the point?

Bolden makes the team IMO. We'll see at cut down day. It's not getting decided on this board.

 

[Oswlek]

Not saying the reports on Washington weren't true, just saying I haven't seen them.

You take out the big games and big runs from any RB and the average dips. In the game he was used the most he was the most productive. His YPC is what it is, no need to discount it. You could take Blount's big run away from his last exhibition game and his numbers don't look as good. What's the point?

Bolden makes the team IMO. We'll see at cut down day. It's not getting decided on this board.

Rate stats can be very misleading when dealing with small sample sizes. Much more than your usual "take this play" away situation.

Not sure what the point of the final sentence is. :confused2:

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Rate stats can be very misleading when dealing with small sample sizes. Much more than your usual "take this play" away situation.

Not sure what the point of the final sentence is. :confused2:

When given the chance to play, Bolden produced. It's as simple as that. Over the course of the year he rushed 56 for 274 yards for a 4.9 YPR average, that's a fact no matter how people want to discount or minimize it. Shane Vereen has rushed 77 for 308 for 4 YPR average in his two years and nobody questions him or discounts his big runs or talks about sample size.

BTW he is a very capable receiver (76 807 10.6 6 TD at Mississippi)


Final sentence means that in my opinion he makes the team, however, we won't know that until he gets cut or makes the final roster and it's not going to get decided by people on this board, so we can all make our cases but no one knows for sure so no need to speak in absolutes.

 

[DarrylStingley]

Strawman




You are entitled to your opinion.




More strawman

Weird that you would call another poster who you do not know at all a troll and then a casual fan. And then a straw man!

Hey, we're not all gonna be buddies and I'm sure you're a great guy otherwise. I think you should lighten up on the accusations but if you choose to ignore that, no problem, you have the right to post whatever you want, even if it makes little sense.

Go Pats and keep Brandon Bolden!