Support For DE's

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Support For DE's

Salas wasnt a rookie, he was a vet who was cut. And he was picked up in November.
Same with Moore, cut in season and landed elsewhere.
Kopa is not an example either as he was on practice squads when cut
Smith was picked up by the Bills and went on to total 24 receiving yards in 2 years, so I don't think we lost anything.

I was referring to players picked up from our practice squad.

 

[Ring 6]

A- I don’t diminish what Welker did; he was likely the best slot receiver to ever step on a field. Unfortunately he is no longer here; and comments like the ones he made today I do not think are necessary, he was given a tremendous opportunity by Kraft and Belichick that may or may not of been given elsewhere and I feel that he should have a high level of respect for this organization no matter how it ended than to pout in the media.

I could not care less what Welker thinks, says or does about Kraft, BB or anyione. He is no longer in the laundry.
Welker made plays on the field, his opportunity was not a gift. The team got as much out of it as Welker did.

Regarding dreams about what might be; I do not know if that is the case with Buchanan as he actually had very good production in his junior season and it dipped last season due to a broken jaw resulting in significant weight loss. I believe much like Dennard he slipped because of circumstances and not because of talent and performance. I could be wrong but that is my personal opinion at this time, but I look forward to seeing him in live game action this Friday.

Most 7th round picks amount to nothing. Until he shows me something, that is my expectation.
The argument that he fell because of reasons that you think are meaningless implies 32 teams weren't smart enough to realize that was the only reason, and you see through it. If a broken jaw were the only reason he dropped, he wouldn't have dropped. (By the way he didnt 'drop' people reporting on the draft guessed wrong about his value and where he would go. You can't 'drop' when there is only one draft)
Using Dennard in the argument only says that some 7th rounders can make it, it does nothing to increase the odds that Buchanan will.

 

[Ring 6]

I was referring to players picked up from our practice squad.

Weren't you referring to players cut who didn't make it to the practice squad before getting claimed?
Players on a practice squad are basically unrestricted free agents.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Support For DE's

Weren't you referring to players cut who didn't make it to the practice squad before getting claimed?
Players on a practice squad are basically unrestricted free agents.

I was referring to players cut that we wanted to put on to practice squad or players signed off of the practice squad. My intent was to show that the practice squad does put players at risk and it has been something we've been affected negatively by previously.

I would much rather take a risk with an older veteran like Jenkins being cut and hanging around as a shadow roster player. I just feel like potential excites GM's and coaches and the bad teams are always going to be looking for younger players to add and develop.

 

[Ring 6]

I was referring to players cut that we wanted to put on to practice squad or players signed off of the practice squad. My intent was to show that the practice squad does put players at risk and it has been something we've been affected negatively by previously.

I would much rather take a risk with an older veteran like Jenkins being cut and hanging around as a shadow roster player. I just feel like potential excites GM's and coaches and the bad teams are always going to be looking for younger players to add and develop.

I totally disagree. Keep the best player. Worrying about whether the guy who isn't the best player will get picked up by someone else is backwards.
It is EXTREMELY rare that a rookie who does not make the team gets picked up on waivers. It may have happened 10 times in 10 years.
A player needs to earn his job. The point of building a roster is winning, not protecting borderline players against going elsewhere.
If it is close between a veteran and a youngster they may keep the youngster due to upside and potential. They will never keep one because they are afraid he can't make it to the practice squad.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Support For DE's

I totally disagree. Keep the best player. Worrying about whether the guy who isn't the best player will get picked up by someone else is backwards.
It is EXTREMELY rare that a rookie who does not make the team gets picked up on waivers. It may have happened 10 times in 10 years.
A player needs to earn his job. The point of building a roster is winning, not protecting borderline players against going elsewhere.
If it is close between a veteran and a youngster they may keep the youngster due to upside and potential. They will never keep one because they are afraid he can't make it to the practice squad.

I respect your view, but I think you are thinking short term and if you want to substain a winning team you have to incorporate some long term planning.

Last season for example we let veterans like Koutouvides, Carpenter, Stallworth and Branch go at final cuts but kept a player like Fortson on our 53 man roster, anyone of those players probably would of contributed more last season to the tean (most did when resigned) but Fortson was kept because was considered a long term investment worth protecting.

 

[jmt57]

File this under stats/polls that interest nobody but me:


Results from a poll on the home page of PatsFans.com:

Which 'on the bubble' DE will most likely play for the Patriots in 2013?

Jake Bequette .............. 17%

Marcus Benard ............. 32%

Michael Buchanan ......... 7%

Jermaine Cunningham ... 5%

Justin Francis .............. 38%

Jason Vega .................. 1%​

And here are the current results from this poll:

Who Will Make The Game One 53?

Jake Bequette ............. 59%

Marcus Benard ............ 71%

Michael Buchanan ........ 35%

Justin Francis .............. 74%

​

Bottom line is that the roster/playing time debate has seemingly come down to Francis or Benard, while Bequette and Buchanan are afterthoughts for a final roster spot.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Support For DE's

File this under stats/polls that interest nobody but me:


Results from a poll on the home page of PatsFans.com:

Which 'on the bubble' DE will most likely play for the Patriots in 2013?

Jake Bequette .............. 17%

Marcus Benard ............. 32%

Michael Buchanan ......... 7%

Jermaine Cunningham ... 5%

Justin Francis .............. 38%

Jason Vega .................. 1%​

And here are the current results from this poll:

Who Will Make The Game One 53?

Jake Bequette ............. 59%

Marcus Benard ............ 71%

Michael Buchanan ........ 35%

Justin Francis .............. 74%

​

Bottom line is that the roster/playing time debate has seemingly come down to Francis or Benard, while Bequette and Buchanan are afterthoughts for a final roster spot.

J who do think makes it?

 

[jmt57]

J who do think makes it?

Training camp is giving us next to nothing to go on, I want to see what happens in the pre-season games.

For now I'll go with Francis and Benard, but I'm really interested in how Buchanan looks.

Right now I'm not even thinking of Bequette. As of this moment he's in a 'prove it' status no different than an UDFA that I never heard of as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mgteich]

I'm not sure I understand your analysis.

How many do of these do you think we will have on the 53. I have been thinking 3, some even say 4.
=========================
Or are you saying that Benard and Francis will be fighting for reps and playing time, while Bequette and Buchanan are fighting for the last roster spot.

File this under stats/polls that interest nobody but me:


Results from a poll on the home page of PatsFans.com:

Which 'on the bubble' DE will most likely play for the Patriots in 2013?

Jake Bequette .............. 17%

Marcus Benard ............. 32%

Michael Buchanan ......... 7%

Jermaine Cunningham ... 5%

Justin Francis .............. 38%

Jason Vega .................. 1%​

And here are the current results from this poll:

Who Will Make The Game One 53?

Jake Bequette ............. 59%

Marcus Benard ............ 71%

Michael Buchanan ........ 35%

Justin Francis .............. 74%

​

Bottom line is that the roster/playing time debate has seemingly come down to Francis or Benard, while Bequette and Buchanan are afterthoughts for a final roster spot.

 

[Ring 6]

I respect your view, but I think you are thinking short term and if you want to substain a winning team you have to incorporate some long term planning.

Last season for example we let veterans like Koutouvides, Carpenter, Stallworth and Branch go at final cuts but kept a player like Fortson on our 53 man roster, anyone of those players probably would of contributed more last season to the tean (most did when resigned) but Fortson was kept because was considered a long term investment worth protecting.

Of course youth matters but we are talking about jag level players.
Due every on the bubble youngster you will have another one come along next year. Marcus forston is not the future of the team. He made it because there were not better players at his position not because he is a long term investment.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Support For DE's

Of course youth matters but we are talking about jag level players.
Due every on the bubble youngster you will have another one come along next year. Marcus forston is not the future of the team. He made it because there were not better players at his position not because he is a long term investment.

Honestly I think we just have a differing opinion on Buchanan, I don't see him as a JAG and you appear to, which is fine as well as understandable. Let's just leave it at that; I have far to much respect to go back in forth with you over this. Admittedly I very well could be bias by the fact I was a fan of Buchanan at the college level.

 

[RayClay]

I think it's put up or shut up time for backup/situational pass rushers.

Thought Bernard looked like he could get something done, though he's short. Buchanan is intruiging, uses his height and is active and should be able to carry quite a bit more muscle. Francis always seems active to me.

I don't care if a couple former draft picks wash out, they need to win a job IMO. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some other teams cuts thrown into the mix.

Speaking of which, I was real surprised somebody didn't give Mark Anderson a look. Not healthy, I'm guessing, from this pre cut PR from coach.

Buffalo Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine is planning on using defensive end Mark Anderson this season.

But, it might take a little bit before Anderson is on the field full-time.

Pettine, while speaking with buffalobills.com, said the team plans on using Anderson on third down and “work our way backwards.” Anderson has been recovering from an injury which sidelined him the last 12 games of last season.

”I think when he’s healthy he can be an elite pass rusher,” Pettine said.” His body of work is evidence of that. Here’s a guy that as much as maybe he wants to rush the passer he has value on early downs as well.”

Anderson, Pettine said, is working hard to get back into game-shape and is quickly learning the team’s new defensive schemes.

“He’s making the effort to learn it and there will be times in packages on first and second down where he’s out there as one of our edge players,” Pettine said.

Mark Anderson Working Hard to Get Back on the Field | Bills 101 | Sports Media 101

 

[RayClay]

Honestly I think we just have a differing opinion on Buchanan, I don't see him as a JAG and you appear to, which is fine as well as understandable. Let's just leave it at that; I have far to much respect to go back in forth with you over this. Admittedly I very well could be bias by the fact I was a fan of Buchanan at the college level.

Well, we know he lost a lot of weight having his jaw wired and underperformed compared to his junior year. He looks like he could carry quite a bit, therefore could be physically better as well as any learned improvement.

Sometimes i wish Parcells had never used the term JAG, it is so overused and misused IMO. Most rookies are pretty much unknown and could be much better or worse than thought. The way I interpret a JAG is someone who's ability is well known and nothing special.