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Patriots Training Camp Day 11 (@ Philadelphia)

Ooh, linguistic props to you! It never occurred to me before that the "lying" part of "lying prostrate" is unnecessary.

Meanwhile, in non-linguistic discussion...maybe this is wishful thinking, but it seems to me that this year's rookie patch-catching camp phenoms are different from those of the past: they all have bona fide NFL size, speed and athleticism. A guy like Bam Childress may do everything right in practice but just can't keep up when the opposition starts competing at 100% physicality.

Did Belichick bring out his pirate costume?
 
Here is a complete transcript of Belichick's Q&A prior to Wednesday's practice:

Bill Belichick Press Conference Transcript | Patriots.com

A few items of interest:


Q: Is (the read option) something you have to prepare for more now?

BB: Sure, yeah sure. I mean we got into the Wildcat. It was something we prepared for every week. Some teams did it, some teams didn’t. Most every team that we played a couple years ago had at least shown it at some point during the year – maybe not necessarily against us but against another opponent, whoever their Wildcat-type player was. I think there’re a lot of quarterbacks in the league that aren’t going to run a read, riding the side or that option type of thing. Then, there are quarterbacks that are capable of running it, whether they do or don’t, depending on their scheme, offensive coordinator and coach and all that. We definitely have to run it and be ready for it but I don’t know. I don’t know how it’s going to go.



Q: How much of a difference will it make to have Devin McCourty back at safety pretty much from the start so he can kind of quarterback that group?

BB: Yeah, Devin has had a good spring. He’s one of our best-prepared players, both physically and mentally. He has a very good understanding of the overall defense and has gotten more experience at the safety position. He's also worked some at corner. He’s a great team player. He's been a captain since his second year in the league, so wherever we need him, I know he’s prepared to play and do the best he can for the team. That's one of the things we all love about Devin: He's a great team player. He's a good player, does a lot of different things – in the kicking game, defense, safety, corner, nickel, whatever it happens to be. He's very dependable, he's very consistent, and he works hard, puts the team first. There’s not much to not like about him; it's pretty much all good.



Q: Even though Adrian Wilson is a veteran in the league, he’s new to your system, so do you see him leaning on Devin a bit to see how to do things here and where to be?

BB: You know, Adrian is a pretty experienced player. He's got good instincts. At times, there are different calls or situations that come up that Steve [Gregory] or Devin will talk to him about, but most everything he’s doing, he’s done before. It was just called differently or maybe structured a little bit differently. But Adrian is a pretty experience player and he’s got a little bit different playing style than some of the other guys we have at that position. But he's doing well. I think it’s coming together for him and for the entire group.



Q: Has it been a while since you’ve had a guy with Adrian’s physical presence in your secondary? I know a lot of people point back to Rodney Harrison in terms of his size and physicality.

BB: He's bigger than Rodney, but I think each player is a little bit different. We’ll see. We’ve only been working with him for less than two weeks in training camp. When we get into games and get into other situations, we’ll see and get a better look at his style in our system. But he’s certainly got a lot of skills; you can see why he’s had a good career in this league. He does a lot of things well, he's smart, he works hard, and he's a tough kid, so we’ll see how it all works out.​
 
Big takeaway: The big WR is back - Mike Reiss - espnBoston


The Patriots worked on the downfield passing game in Wednesday's joint practice with the Eagles, and one of the obvious takeaways was that the big receiver is back in the team's offense.

The play of the day was 6-foot-3 Aaron Dobson beating triple coverage to haul in a long bomb from quarterback Tom Brady over the middle in a competitive-catch situation.

It was a "throw it up there and give the receiver a chance to come down with it" type of play. Dobson, tapping his basketball-like skills, did just that. Cornerback Aqib Talib was so impressed that he started celebrating along the sidelines, jumping up and down as if he had just won the lottery.

Think about the team's offense in 2011 and 2012, and then ask the question, "Who could make that type of play in the deep part of the field?"

The top receivers last year were Brandon Lloyd (6-foot-0) and Wes Welker (5-foot-9). Lloyd made acrobatic catches along the sideline, but he wasn't outleaping defenders and high-pointing the ball on vertical routes downfield.

Two years ago, it was the top combination of Welker and Deion Branch (5-foot-9). Same type of deal.

So what we've seen from Dobson (6-3, 210) is something that hasn't shown up on the radar since the Patriots had 6-foot-4 Randy Moss running routes on the outside​
 
What I've been gathering about Dobson isn't so much "up and down" as pretty consistently awesome in some skills and weak in others. Tremendous hands, timing/leaping, and body control, but still raw in route running, which limits how he can contribute.

What she said

I am excited about how Dobson is progressing, and I can accept raw in route running at this stage of TC. His size, leaping and hands are things that we have missed since Moss (not to mention that we only ever had those skills with Moss). For now he seems to be #3 Offensive Rookie from the 2013 draft and UDFA's. KT is the clear #1, which impressed the hell out of Mayock (one of the more credible analysts). Sudfeld is #2 and unlikely to be cut as he wont make the Practice Squad.

I would put Boyce at #4, even though his route running, cutting and burst speed are well above average, he doesn't seem to have the hands of the rookies ahead of him. Maybe that will develop but at the moment I would rather have the other three playing with the 1sts on Friday.

It is still early and much can happen between now and the start of the season. Much as I would like to see all four succeed I wish that we had a veteran in the mix, at least until Gronk is fit to play. Sadly it looks as if none of our FA WR acquisitions panned out.

I am impressed with TB, for his patience and perseverance with the rooks, though it does cross my mind that if the coaches had inserted rookie WRs in the 1st team drills in previous camps then we might have developed a few more home grown receivers. (hmm maybe not Bethel and Chad though....)
 
Here is a complete transcript of Belichick's Q&A prior to Wednesday's practice:

It's weird to see BB shower praise on a guy who, as Triumph says, is basically Tebucky Jones v. 2.0.
 
Some additional comments from Eric Galko of Optimum Scouting:


-
- (Q.: Which WR on New England impressed you the most?) -- Josh Boyce looks more NFL ready than expected. Thompkins too.


- (Q.: Thoughts on Dobson?) -- Showed off elite ball skills today. Footwork still off in routes. But he looks the part if a starter.


- In college, Dobson had to use wide catch radius because his QB play sucked. Now with Brady, he uses it to make plays in traffic/over DBs.


- (Q.: If you could compare the main Patriots' Wrs to established NFL Wrs ability wise & potential who do they remind you off ?) -- Amendola-Welker, Dobson-Lloyd/VJax, Boyce-Jennings.

.​

Interesting comments about our receivers. Very positive overall. Loved the comments about Boyce, since he's probably been the 4th best receiver in camp (Behind Amendola,Thompkins & Dobson). Liked that he compared him to Greg Jennings. As far as Dobson, if you look at players so-called weakenesses coming out of college, even great, high drafted receivers have been questioned as far as their footwork or route work.

Julio Jones: Needs to shore up his hands and route-running to develop into a consistent chain-mover at the next level.

Torey Smith: Not a refined underneath route-runner. Loses speed in transition and doesn't have a real natural feel for finding creases in zones.

And I'm sure I can research a dozen of the highest drafted receivers the past 10 years, and MOST of them had to work on their route running.
 
Some of the relatively overlooked happenings in today's practice:

Practice Observations: Tom Brady and Aaron Dobson shine, Aqib Talib has some fun | Jeff Howe, Boston Herald


The Pats’ dime looks have again involved Adrian Wilson and Tavon Wilson as linebackers.


Rookie linebacker Steve Beauharnais has displayed some really consistent coverage skills. He picked off Brady last week, and he’s been stout against the Eagles.


Running backs Shane Vereen and Leon Washington are getting a lot of work in passing situations. Vereen had a nice catch and run from Brady for a score in 11-on-11s.


Dobson and Adrian Wilson each appeared to tweak an ankle, but both returned for the rest of practice.


Defensive lineman Cory Grissom and cornerback Justin Green got some late work with the starters. Grissom is more of an interior player who can play defensive end in the 3-4 and defensive tackle in a four-man front.


Cornerback Brandon Jones made back-to-back nice plays in 7-on-7s but didn’t get any time with the starters in team drills.


Cornerback Alfonzo Dennard was again held out of team drills due to his undisclosed injury.


Cornerback Kyle Arrington did what few, if any, have done in the last two days. He broke up a touchdown pass for Riler Cooper, sticking his hand between the ball and Cooper's hands to knock the ball loose. That was textbook.

 
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How ridiculously lucky are dobson et al.? Can you ask for a better situation than being drafted onto a receiverless team with Tom Brady waiting there to make you look amazing. They pretty much have 4 free roster spots and the best coaching of all time. Jackpot.
 
Interesting comments about our receivers. Very positive overall. Loved the comments about Boyce, since he's probably been the 4th best receiver in camp (Behind Amendola,Thompkins & Dobson). Liked that he compared him to Greg Jennings. As far as Dobson, if you look at players so-called weakenesses coming out of college, even great, high drafted receivers have been questioned as far as their footwork or route work.

Julio Jones: Needs to shore up his hands and route-running to develop into a consistent chain-mover at the next level.

Torey Smith: Not a refined underneath route-runner. Loses speed in transition and doesn't have a real natural feel for finding creases in zones.

And I'm sure I can research a dozen of the highest drafted receivers the past 10 years, and MOST of them had to work on their route running.


True, but Jones and Smith are 6'+ and run 4.3-40's. When you can do that people don't worry much about your route runnning
 
How ridiculously lucky are dobson et al.? Can you ask for a better situation than being drafted onto a receiverless team with Tom Brady waiting there to make you look amazing. They pretty much have 4 free roster spots and the best coaching of all time. Jackpot.

I take the point but I would ask how ridiculously lucky are we/the Patriots to have apparently hit paydirt on not one, not two, but three promising wide receivers at a time where the margin for error was slim to non-existent?
 
Re: Re: Patriots Training Camp Day 11 (@ Philadelphia)

I take the point but I would ask how ridiculously lucky are we/the Patriots to have apparently hit paydirt on not one, not two, but three promising wide receivers at a time where the margin for error was slim to non-existent?

I guess there's plenty of luck to go around. I just meant in terms of career and how in the NFL opportunity can be everything even for good players.
 
True, but Jones and Smith are 6'+ and run 4.3-40's. When you can do that people don't worry much about your route runnning

And Dobson is 6'3" and rund a 4.4, what's your point ?
 
And Dobson is 6'3" and rund a 4.4, what's your point ?

hmmm.. I assumed Smith and Jones were much faster. I haven't watched Dobson live yet, but I would be pleasantly shocked if he played as fast as those guys.
 
What I've been gathering about Dobson isn't so much "up and down" as pretty consistently awesome in some skills and weak in others. Tremendous hands, timing/leaping, and body control, but still raw in route running, which limits how he can contribute.

I don't recall who wrote it, but it went something like

"after a couple of down days for Dobson..."

which is what I was referring to. I wasn't trying to parse anything, so I've got no issue with your take. I was just tossing out what seems to be either consensus or 'lone' reports about the various players. I think it's nice, and helpful, to find such things when we're looking at both the home team reporters and the Eagles reporters in combination.
 
Where'd you pull that from? Your ass?


Y! SPORTS

You're really going there? You? Well, besides what the NFL reporters have given us, let's just look around a bit. Here's a little something of note, pulled from a A Zach Sudfeld ballwashing article:

Sudfeld may not be the most powerful blocker. He may not be ideal for in-line pass protection, either. T

The Three Dimensions of Patriots Rookie Tight End Zach Sudfeld | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

I'll leave it at that.
 
I love how LolDeus just edited his post from some pissy comment about "why dont you do your research instead of just posting the first thing you find on the internet" to scrambling for some throw away line from a reporter that doesn't say anything about him being a bad blocker let alone it being a "major weakness."

Of course both pre and post edits contain the same "i'll just take my ball and go home now" last line. Excellent posting sir.
 
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