Patriots Training Camp Day 10 (@ Philadelphia)

[BlueThunder]

I think Cunningham has to have a very good preseason showing to stick.

Not sure how much more time BB gives him to show what he has.

 

[jmt57]

How has Fortson looked in practices?

I'm relying on the reports from others just like you. Hopefully one or more of those on site will give us more details on linemen and linebackers rather than just pass catchers and pass defenders in the upcoming days; if nothing else that is something that many of our armchair scouts can review after Friday's game.




It Is What It Is » With preseason games looming, these 10 Patriots face key week in their development | Christopher Price, WEEI.com - Aug 6

Defensive tackle Marcus Forston – With Armond Armstead facing a murky future because of recent surgery, the Patriots suddenly are a little thin at defensive tackle, and the 6-foot-3, 305-pounder who spent part of last season on the practice squad has taken advantage of the opportunity. Working alongside and in relief of presumed starters Vince Wilfork and Tommy Kelly, the University of Miami product has shown a good stoutness while getting significant reps with the starting defense. As with Benard, a good game against the Eagles and continued good work in camp could separate him from the rest of the backup candidates along the interior.​

Aqib Talib, Jamie Collins Among Top 5 Most Impressive Defensive Performers at Patriots Training Camp | Doug Kyed, NESN.com - Aug 6

Marcus Forston: The Patriots decided to enter training camp shockingly shallow at the interior defensive line position. High-profile CFL import Armond Armstead started the season on the non-football illness list due to a surgery for an infection (the cryptic email we received from the Patriots did not specify where the infection was), so Forston became the de facto No. 3 behind Vince Wilfork and Tommy Kelly. Forston was an undrafted free agent out of Miami last season and spent the season split between the practice squad and active roster. Forston has been impressive during training camp, getting inside blockers in 1-on-1 drills and being a solid force stopping the run at nose tackle behind Wilfork. The year under Wilfork must have served Forston well, since the team apparently trusts him enough to not bring in any veteran defensive tackles. Forston should get plenty of snaps in 2013 as Kelly and Wilfork will not play every snap.
​

Vince Wilfork keys in on unit's continuity | Jeff Howe, BostonHerald.com - Aug 6

Another battle, for the spot next to Wilfork, involves Tommy Kelly and Marcus Forston, but coach Bill Belichick’s willingness to rotate defensive tackles could make that one moot.​

Patriots Roster Tracker 2013 | PFW Staff, Patriots.com

Positional Analysis:
Wilfork is an elite talent, and a surprising playmaker for an interior lineman. Kelly brings experience and recent history as an interior pass rusher (7 sacks in both 2010 and 2011). Beyond those two the ranks are thin on the inside. Forston is a candidtae for a reserve DT role while Belichick has experimented with several smaller players like Francis, Benard and others as interior pass rushers. Ninkovich has turned his versatility into proven consistent production, while Jones will be looking for a huge Year Two jump after a relatively impressive rookie campaign. Armstead has promise but an infection landed him on NFI and he's yet to practice following surgery. Cunningham could be fighting for his roster life, while Francis surprised as an undrafted rookie. Bequette was a disappointment as essentially a healthy scratch as a third-round rookie last fall. The rest are battling for depth reps and roster spots.​

Marcus Forston making inroads on a roster spot - Zuri Berry, Boston.com - Aug 2

Over the course of the first seven practices, one of the 16 defensive linemen competing for a spot on the team has been Marcus Forston, a practice squad player last season who has been substituting for Vince Wilfork at defensive tackle. He's been getting significant repetitions in practice, a sign that he may stick with the team.

"I still got a long way to go," Forston said. "But I'm just trying to chop at it and do it the way the Patriots want it to be done."

A year on the practice squad with three game appearances is all Forston has to put on his resume. So for him, the last year has been about the learning process, growing as a player and professional.

"I learned so much going up against guys every day like Logan Mankins, [Ryan] Wendell and Dan Connolly," he said. "I'm learning from those guys and going against those guys, giving them a good look week in and week out. I felt like I got better. That was one of the best things to happen to me."

Luckily for Forston, Wilfork is also a great source of knowledge. Forston has been following in Wilfork's footsteps for some time, watching him play in his hometown at the University of Miami before becoming a Hurricane himself, and then signing on with the Patriots as an undrafted rookie last season.

Nowadays, Forston is either in Wilfork's ear or at his house, picking his brain, talking football nonstop.

"When you love the game, you never get tired of it," Forston said. "There's never too much information."

Forston, listed at 6 feet 3 inches and 305 pounds, is the beneficiary of Armond Armstead's absence. The team announced that Armstead had surgery to treat an infection and has missed all of training camp. He was supposed to come in and compete for the team's starting defensive tackle position opposite of Wilfork, pushing the snaps and repetitions down for everyone else, Forston included.

Now, Forston finds himself useful in different sub-packages for the team.​

 

[Joey007]

I'll make a roster projection as of now.

QB- Brady, Mallett, Tebow (3)- Yes, Tebow sticks. Seems like we may have a plan for him.

RB- Ridley, Vereen, Washington, Bolden (4)- The battle between Blount and Bolden for the power back position will be won by Bolden due to his upside.

WR- Amendola, Dobson, Boyce, Edelman, Thompkins, Slater (6)

OL- Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Connolly, Vollmer, Svitek, Cannon, Green (8)

TE- Gronk, Sudfield, Hooman (3)- Ballard gets cut. While it may be a surprise only Sudfield and Hooman are kept behind Gronk, I think we'll manage when/if Gronk misses time during the season.

DE- Jones, Ninkovich, Benard, Bequette, Buchannon, Francis (6)- Benard looks like Mark Anderson 2.0 in an very good way, while Bequette gets a second chance in year two while Buchannon beats out Cunningham for a spot.

DT- Wilfork, Kelly, Armstead, Forston (4)

LB- Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais (6)

CB- Talib, Dennard, Arrington, Dowling, Ryan, (5)

S- Wilson, Wilson, McCourty, Harmon, Gregory (5)

ST- Gostkowski, Mesko, Aiken (3)

 

[jmt57]

I'll make a roster projection as of now.

QB- Brady, Mallett, Tebow (3)- Yes, Tebow sticks. Seems like we may have a plan for him.

RB- Ridley, Vereen, Washington, Bolden (4)- The battle between Blount and Bolden for the power back position will be won by Bolden due to his upside.

WR- Amendola, Dobson, Boyce, Edelman, Thompkins, Slater (6)

OL- Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Connolly, Vollmer, Svitek, Cannon, Green (8)

TE- Gronk, Sudfield, Hooman (3)- Ballard gets cut. While it may be a surprise only Sudfield and Hooman are kept behind Gronk, I think we'll manage when/if Gronk misses time during the season.

DE- Jones, Ninkovich, Benard, Bequette, Buchannon, Francis (6)- Benard looks like Mark Anderson 2.0 in an very good way, while Bequette gets a second chance in year two while Buchannon beats out Cunningham for a spot.

DT- Wilfork, Kelly, Armstead, Forston (4)

LB- Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais (6)

CB- Talib, Dennard, Arrington, Dowling, Ryan, (5)

S- Wilson, Wilson, McCourty, Harmon, Gregory (5)

ST- Gostkowski, Mesko, Aiken (3)

Even though the Pats figure to be less of a TE-centric offense, I just don't see the Pats going with only three tight ends - especially at the beginning of the season with a question of when and how much Gronk will be able to play.


Nothing else jumps out at me, good job with that.

 

[jmt57]

I think Cunningham has to have a very good preseason showing to stick.

Not sure how much more time BB gives him to show what he has.

I agree.

I think BB and the coaching staff will have seen enough of Cunningham to determine that 'this is as good as he's going to get', and with that in place they will then say 'is that good enough to keep him, or should we roll the dice with someone else?'

There should not be much debate with that question, unless he suddenly transforms into a much more productive player than we have seen thus far.

 

[50-yard-line]

I'll make a roster projection as of now.

QB- Brady, Mallett, Tebow (3)- Yes, Tebow sticks. Seems like we may have a plan for him.

RB- Ridley, Vereen, Washington, Bolden (4)- The battle between Blount and Bolden for the power back position will be won by Bolden due to his upside.

WR- Amendola, Dobson, Boyce, Edelman, Thompkins, Slater (6)

OL- Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Connolly, Vollmer, Svitek, Cannon, Green (8)

TE- Gronk, Sudfield, Hooman (3)- Ballard gets cut. While it may be a surprise only Sudfield and Hooman are kept behind Gronk, I think we'll manage when/if Gronk misses time during the season.

DE- Jones, Ninkovich, Benard, Bequette, Buchannon, Francis (6)- Benard looks like Mark Anderson 2.0 in an very good way, while Bequette gets a second chance in year two while Buchannon beats out Cunningham for a spot.

DT- Wilfork, Kelly, Armstead, Forston (4)

LB- Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais (6)

CB- Talib, Dennard, Arrington, Dowling, Ryan, (5)

S- Wilson, Wilson, McCourty, Harmon, Gregory (5)

ST- Gostkowski, Mesko, Aiken (3)

Mayock today was talking about Blount...said a guy like him can't really shine until they start the real hitting. He was tough to bring down today against the Eagles according to Mayock. If his head's on straight and he's toeing the line, I think he makes the team. Maybe they keep 5?

 

[jmt57]

A few evening comments from Nick Underhill after today's practice:

- Thompkins looked good again. I think Thompkins has been the most consistent rookie receiver. That’s not taking away from Dobson and Boyce.

- (in response to question, 'think he beat out Mallett'?) -- Tebow? No.

- (What if he learns to throw?) -- If anything, he’s a developmental project. Give him time to incubate. Needs patience.

- (Do you think these guys are upgrades over Lloyd, Branch and whoever else?) -- Have potential to be if you take sum of all parts.

- (It seems like all rookie receivers have been good and all can make the team, including Aiken.) -- I have Aiken on bubble.

- (I'd give Aiken the nod over Jules, strictly off the fact that he hasn't been able to stay healthy.) -- I’ve battled that own thought in my mind, plus possibly more upside.

- (How has Brady looked throwing outside the numbers?) -- Everything was money today.

- (Biggest question so far seems to be who's opposite Dmac at safety.) -- Lot of cycling there still. Maybe get a better read Friday.

- (Regarding the defensive linemen) -- Tough to quantify, but Benard, Francis and Forston have popped at various moments. Bequette hasn’t hit my radar often.​

 

[jmt57]

Mayock today was talking about Blount...said a guy like him can't really shine until they start the real hitting. He was tough to bring down today against the Eagles according to Mayock. If his head's on straight and he's toeing the line, I think he makes the team. Maybe they keep 5?

That's part of why roster projections are so difficult (and intriguing). It's not just Bolden vs Blount (or even Winn, for that matter), but a 5th RB vs another TE, or an extra QB, or another OL or DL, etc. And that's before you consider someone's position play vs special teams play, long term upside vs immediate impact, salary cap impact, age, injury history, what the position will look like in 2014, etc.

 

[bigballas]

any word on edelbird?

 

[Rob0729]

The latest addition to the proshop:



Official New England Patriots ProShop - Nike Aaron Dobson #17 Game Jersey-Navy

And Dobson will make the valiant effort to steal the number 17 from Patriots Bust-dom. Let's hope third time is the charm for a Patriots rookie to don that number.

 

[Demosthenes]

That's part of why roster projections are so difficult (and intriguing). It's not just Bolden vs Blount (or even Winn, for that matter), but a 5th RB vs another TE, or an extra QB, or another OL or DL, etc. And that's before you consider someone's position play vs special teams play, long term upside vs immediate impact, salary cap impact, age, injury history, what the position will look like in 2014, etc.

I wish more people understood this. Instead, they think that the "best 53" will make the final roster.

 

[belichick010405]

I wish more people understood this. Instead, they think that the "best 53" will make the final roster.

Demos - when it comes to the initial 53-man roster that breaks camp there are two primary considerations that BB and Caserio utilize.

The first consideration obviously is the starting lineup on each side.

Then the second consideration takes a complex evaluation that includes from (1) who is going to be a member of the special teams, (2) what is the growth opportunity for the remaining contenders to make the 53-man roster, (3) who would be snapped up if cut instead of making it to the 8-man practice squad, (4) who provides positional flexibility on the gameday roster (i.e. Cunningham is an example of this because he was able to play both end and tackle last year), and (5) cap implications.

In my view, if you are not a starter and that player is viewed by Belichick and Caserio as a one-trick pony, you are probably on the outside looking in.

That is how the Patriots have been doing business for quite some time.

 

[shmessy]

Why is it that everytime I think of Bequette I envision Brian Scalabrine.

Does this kid ever do ANYTHING?

 

[Deus Irae]

I wish more people understood this. Instead, they think that the "best 53" will make the final roster.

Well, another thing to remember is that it's not necessarily a "53", at all. It could be a "52", or "51" or even a "50", depending upon how BB feels about the bottom of the roster.

 

[Brady6]

Why is it that everytime I think of Bequette I envision Brian Scalabrine.

Does this kid ever do ANYTHING?

:lol: sadly I think Scalabrine has done more..

 

[ATippett56]

Why is it that everytime I think of Bequette I envision Brian Scalabrine.

New England Patriots defensive ends on the hot seat:

1. Jake Bequette
2. Jermaine Cunningham

 

[Ironman44]

"-Tebow was the worst quarterback here. I won’t go into much detail, but he was late on every throw, his mechanics don’t allow him to work effectively in 3 step drops, and his ball flutters instantly when he’s asked to plant and drive deep. But, this shouldn’t be news to anyone really."

Here is the Tebow observation from that column. :brick:

There is some conflicting stuff as usual (happens all the time ), here is another observation not nearly as apocalyptic (pun intended) .

Patriots? intensity is up in joint practice with Eagles - Patriots - Boston.com


TEBOW TIME

Tim Tebow took a few goal line reps with the first unit, but once again spent most of the day working with the threes and fours. He threw a nice slant pass to TE Jake Ballard for a touchdown and a quick hitch to WR Kamar Aiken for another score, but threw low and incomplete to Sudfeld and had a pass batted down at the line of scrimmage. He also didn’t show great touch, throwing too far on deep fade patterns and a few wobblers that were dropped by receivers. Tebow addressed the media after practice, and while he said, “I was definitely praying for him [Cooper],” he said he hadn’t spoken yet to his former college roommate and declined to say anything about their relationship or Cooper as a person

 

[ctpatsfan77]

- (I'd give Aiken the nod over Jules, strictly off the fact that he hasn't been able to stay healthy.) -- I’ve battled that own thought in my mind, plus possibly more upside.

The actual question BB faces: a No. 5 receiver or one of the best PRs in NFL history?

 

[belichick010405]

There is some conflicting stuff as usual (happens all the time ), here is another observation

Patriots? intensity is up in joint practice with Eagles - Patriots - Boston.com


TEBOW TIME

Tim Tebow took a few goal line reps with the first unit, but once again spent most of the day working with the threes and fours. He threw a nice slant pass to TE Jake Ballard for a touchdown and a quick hitch to WR Kamar Aiken for another score, but threw low and incomplete to Sudfeld and had a pass batted down at the line of scrimmage. He also didn’t show great touch, throwing too far on deep fade patterns and a few wobblers that were dropped by receivers. Tebow addressed the media after practice, and while he said, “I was definitely praying for him [Cooper],” he said he hadn’t spoken yet to his former college roommate and declined to say anything about their relationship or Cooper as a person

Ironman - what do you see that is "conflicting" between the two reports?

 

[PatsDeb]

There is some conflicting stuff as usual (happens all the time ), here is another observation not nearly as apocalyptic (pun intended) .

Patriots? intensity is up in joint practice with Eagles - Patriots - Boston.com


TEBOW TIME

Tim Tebow took a few goal line reps with the first unit, but once again spent most of the day working with the threes and fours. He threw a nice slant pass to TE Jake Ballard for a touchdown and a quick hitch to WR Kamar Aiken for another score, but threw low and incomplete to Sudfeld and had a pass batted down at the line of scrimmage. He also didn’t show great touch, throwing too far on deep fade patterns and a few wobblers that were dropped by receivers. Tebow addressed the media after practice, and while he said, “I was definitely praying for him [Cooper],” he said he hadn’t spoken yet to his former college roommate and declined to say anything about their relationship or Cooper as a person

LOL, Tebow should be praying for himself...