Official 2013 Patriots Training Camp Thread

[ATippett56]

I know. That was pretty much where I got my mythical numbers from.

That still does not even come close to replacing Brandon Lloyd's 74 pass receptions and 911 pass receiving yards.

 

[Oswlek]

Sour grapes is where you want something until you don't get it, and then you start finding reasons to be 'happy' that you don't have it. Your position on Welker is pretty much textbook sour grapes.

And since I expected Wes to be gone before he left, it isn't. :thumb:

 

[ATippett56]

Wow. I am so ****ing stupid.

Aside from that, though, how does the fact that a late round pick was involved in Salas' acquisition materially change my point? Can't we disagree without personal assaults?

The fact remains that two wide receivers brought in last season produced the following results:

0 pass receptions
0 pass receiving yards

Zero

 

[Deus Irae]

And since I expected Wes to be gone before he left, it isn't. :thumb:

You seem unclear on the whole "sour grapes" concept, which is about what you can't have (in other words, expecting him to be gone would fit in fine with the notion). Perhaps that's why you originally took offense at something that innocuous.

 

[Oswlek]

That still does not even come close to replacing Brandon Lloyd's 74 pass receptions and 911 pass receiving yards.

I know, and it doesn't need to.

Tom Brady only had one other season in his entire career with more passing yards than last year. Just three years ago, NE led the NFL in scoring by an enormous margin with Brady tossing for nearly 1,000 less yards than he did in 2012.

Beyond that, the Patriots were extremely top heavy in passing last year. I don't expect anyone to even approach Wes' yardage and I will only be mildly surprised if no one hits Lloyd's numbers either. I'm expecting to see that production gap offset by better numbers from the depth.

 

[Oswlek]

You seem unclear on the whole "sour grapes" concept.

If you say so.

I don't know what happened to you, Deus, but I liked the guy I knew over on PP a lot more.

 

[Oswlek]

The fact remains that two wide receivers brought in last season produced the following results:

0 pass receptions
0 pass receiving yards

Zero

Sure. I'm still not sure why this means that Dobson and Boyce need to suck as well, though.

Frankly, I'd find a Chad Jackson reference to be more relevant considering the disproportionate investment in the guys you are mentioning vs. the rookies this year.

 

[ATippett56]

I know, and it doesn't need to.

That's a bunch of baloney.

Beyond that, the Patriots were extremely top heavy in passing last year. I don't expect anyone to even approach Wes' yardage and I will only be mildly surprised if no one hits Lloyd's numbers either. I'm expecting to see that production gap offset by better numbers from the depth.

Better depth without Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Aaron Hernandez? What depth?

 

[ATippett56]

Sure. I'm still not sure why this means that Dobson and Boyce need to suck as well, though.

I guess Bill Belichick didn't expect the following wide receivers and tight ends to be major disappointments either:

Chad "Ochostinko" Johnson
Jabar Gaffney
Donte Stallworth
Anthony Gonzalez
Visanthe Shiancoe
Kellen Winslow Jr

Not to mention the lack production from tight ends Daniel Fells and Michael Hoomanawanui in the passing game.

 

[Froob]

I wouldn't mind seeing Visanthe Shiancoe brought back. Dude defied odds and make the club from the tub.

 

[Oswlek]

That's a bunch of baloney.

Better depth without Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Aaron Hernandez? What depth?

First off, I just demonstrated a year (2010) where Brady threw for almost exactly Lloyd's numbers less than 2012 and the team actually scored more points. It is entirely possible (though not probable) that they could be a good offense even if zero of Lloyd's yards are recaptured. This isn't opinion, it is fact. They just did it.

Of course, I don't expect that to happen, but they don't need one receiver to do it all by himself.

Second, I never said specifically that the depth itself is better, just that they could, simply out of necessity get more out of their #3 WR than the 235 yards Edelman got.

Gronk 800
Vereen 300
Ridley 100
Amendola 900
Dobson 350
Boyce 300
Edelman 300
Ballard 400
TE3 200
WR5 200
All other receivers 300

Do any of those numbers sound ridiculous to you? That is a 4,150 yard passing season, more than Tommy has thrown in 6 of his seasons.

 

[ATippett56]

First off, I just demonstrated a year (2010) where Brady threw for almost exactly Lloyd's numbers less than 2012 and the team actually scored more points. It is entirely possible (though not probable) that they could be a good offense even if zero of Lloyd's yards are recaptured. This isn't opinion, it is fact. They just did it.

Of course, I don't expect that to happen, but they don't need one receiver to do it all by himself.

Second, I never said specifically that the depth itself is better, just that they could, simply out of necessity get more out of their #3 WR than the 235 yards Edelman got.

Gronk 800
Vereen 300
Ridley 100
Amendola 900
Dobson 350
Boyce 300
Edelman 300
Ballard 400
TE3 200
WR5 200
All other receivers 300

Do any of those numbers sound ridiculous to you? That is a 4,150 yard passing season, more than Tommy has thrown in 6 of his seasons.

That's pure speculation on your part and not backed by any facts whatsoever.

 

[Oswlek]

I guess Bill Belichick didn't expect the following wide receivers and tight ends to be major disappointments either:

Chad "Ochostinko" Johnson
Jabar Gaffney
Donte Stallworth
Anthony Gonzalez
Visanthe Shiancoe
Kellen Winslow Jr

Not to mention the lack production from tight ends Daniel Fells and Michael Hoomanawanui in the passing game.

Of course! Bill has positively sucked at WR acquisitions lately, we all know that.

But he wasn't exactly hitting it out of the park with TEs prior to 2010, nor was RB a guarantee of success in 2011. But, NE has an excellent track record when doing a complete overhaul and, frankly, a lot of your examples are a little disingenuous.

KW Jr? Gonzalez? Stallworth? These were nothing but fliers. I'll grant you that CJ and Shiancoe didn't provide much return on investment, but they aren't good comparables to this situation.

 

[ATippett56]

First off, I just demonstrated a year (2010) where Brady threw for almost exactly Lloyd's numbers less than 2012 and the team actually scored more points.

A 2010 version of Deion Branch nor Randy Moss does not currently exist on the 2013 New England Patriots roster.

 

[Oswlek]

That's pure speculation on your part and not backed by any facts whatsoever.

Of course it is speculation! That's the point!

But you didn't answer the question, do any of those figures sound unreasonable to you?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I wouldn't mind seeing Visanthe Shiancoe brought back. Dude defied odds and make the club from the tub.

Mallett hates the guy

 

[Oswlek]

A 2010 version of Deion Branch nor Randy Moss does not currently exist on the 2013 New England Patriots roster.

Amendola could easily make a case, but that is entirely irrelevant. Who was on the team has nothing to do at all with the yardage Brady threw, unless you are saying that Branch is some monster touchdown machine who somehow scored loads of points per yard.

 

[ATippett56]

Of course! Bill has positively sucked at WR acquisitions lately, we all know that.

So if the recent track record of wide receiver acquisitions either via free agency, trade, draft has been abysmal, now of all sudden all the wide receiver issues have been resolved.

Gotcha!

 

[Oswlek]

So if the recent track record of wide receiver acquisitions either via free agency, trade, draft has been abysmal, now of all sudden all the wide receiver issues have been resolved.

Gotcha!

How about we deal with what each other is actually writing, shall we?

 

[ATippett56]

Amendola could easily make a case, but that is entirely irrelevant.

So now Amendola will replace the 2010 pass receiving production of Welker, Branch, Moss, Hernandez?

Who was on the team has nothing to do at all with the yardage Brady threw, unless you are saying that Branch is some monster touchdown machine who somehow scored loads of points per yard.

No that is entirely the point, since so few produce in the New England Patriots pass offense.