Official 2013 Patriots Training Camp Thread

[JackBauer]

I think he is talking about Harmon. Since there was a glaring need for a coverage LB, I'm pretty happy about the Collins pick.

Nope, Collins.

Even if he absolutely blows in coverage, it's still not redundant because, as you know, our pass rush is mediocre at best and we could really use a consistent threat across from Jones.

 

[Kontradiction]

Nope, Collins.

Even if he absolutely blows in coverage, it's still not redundant because, as you know, our pass rush is mediocre at best and we could really use a consistent threat across from Jones.

I don't think they're going to use Collins as a pass rusher in his rookie year.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't think they're going to use Collins as a pass rusher in his rookie year.

I'd be surprised if they don't.

 

[Oswlek]

I took exception when he called the pick redundant. I don't think there's any way you can reason the pick as being redundant. Thus the impasse, and it's a significant reason why he hates the draft as much as he does.

I'm not seeing the redundancy either. If anything, he is decidedly nonredundant (is that even a word? ). He adds agility in the LB corps with pass rushing chops to boot. Not only does it address the cover LB gap, but it adds a moveable chess piece for Bill to play with and depth purposes.

Assuming he can play, of course. Frankly, I won't be shocked if he can't because second rounders are, at best, a 50/50 proposition.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well then, let's tackle this one at a time, shall we?

No. Nothing personal, but my mentioning my mood going into training camp, and then giving the basic explanation of why, was on topic. Breaking it all down is off topic, though, and has been gone over before, so I'm not going to get into it right at the start of the thread.

 

[Oswlek]

No. Nothing personal, but my mentioning my mood going into training camp, and then giving the basic explanation of why, was on topic. Breaking it all down is off topic, though, and has been gone over before, so I'm not going to get into it right at the start of the thread.

I don't see why it is off topic, but I am getting my feet wet again on this site, so I understand if this is well covered ground.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'd be surprised if they don't.

I don't see it. With Ninkovich manning the other DE position, they have more depth and experience when it comes to edge rushers. By far the biggest weakness in the front seven last year was coverage on RB's and TE's. Fletcher is also coming off of season-ending surgery and may take some time to get going. Even then, he wasn't exactly a shut down coverage specialist. Collins is an athletic freak. His size and speed combination make him an easy bet to be the coverage specialist that they were missing over the middle last season, which is what I expect his role to be in his rookie year. If he is used as a pass rusher, it will be straight up the A or B gaps to try to throw some pressure into a quarterback's face.

 

[sevengables_2207]

Finally we can get to some actual football. I am sure the majority of you feel the sense of nervous excitement that heralds the start of training camp and a new season.

Specifically, I am really interested in the competition for the outside wide receiver spots. Wonder if Tompkins can secure a spot in three receiver sets and build on momentum from OTAs.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I don't see it. With Ninkovich manning the other DE position, they have more depth and experience when it comes to edge rushers. By far the biggest weakness in the front seven last year was coverage on RB's and TE's. Fletcher is also coming off of season-ending surgery and may take some time to get going. Even then, he wasn't exactly a shut down coverage specialist. Collins is an athletic freak. His size and speed combination make him an easy bet to be the coverage specialist that they were missing over the middle last season, which is what I expect his role to be in his rookie year. If he is used as a pass rusher, it will be straight up the A or B gaps to try to throw some pressure into a quarterback's face.

The fact that Collins is an athletic freak is why you let him rush the passer. One of the reasons he got drafted is because he can get after the QB. I miss the Belichick defenses where you never knew where the pressure was coming from, McGinest off the edge, Seymour up the middle, Bruschi and Vrabel from everywhere, Harrison with the safety blitz, Tully Banta Cain and Jarvis Green off the edge, the opponent just never knew what was going to hit them next.

That's what we need again in New England. Offensive lines will have to deal with Jones, Wilfork and Ninkovich and hopefully others coming from the D-Line, I want Collins, Hightower and Mayo to be the new McGinest, Vrabel and Bruschi, I want them to be unleashed, attacking the O-Line when they least expect it, which would help our suspect DBs as well. I dream of a fierce pass rush again, and hopefully we can get 5-7 sacks from Collins this season.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

My top 7 things I want to see in Training camp.

- With Rob Gronkowski out, that gives even more time for Danny Amendola and Tom Brady to get on the same page, which I've heard that's already been going really well and fantastic this off season. Can't wait to see it live in game speed.

- Rookies Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce, who are both knicked up. Once they get healthy, want to see how they progress in the offense. Both are incredibly talented and have more upside then we've seen out of rookie receivers coming into NE since 2001 or 2002 IMO. Boyce performed great with a broken foot and poor qb play and Dobson has been a highlight reel at Marshall, with no drops his senior year, which was his most important. Can't wait to see what they can do in camp and hopefully give us each and every Sunday.

- LeGarrette Blount and Brandon Bolden should be fun. Both are very talented, with Blount being a little bit more experienced being that he has been a featured back before in an offense where he gained 1,000 yards. But Brandon definitely has his skillset too. Maybe we can keep both? Who knows, but will be fun to watch and see what happens.

- Rookie TE Zach Sudfeld has tremendous upside but who will fair between him and fellow rookie Brandon Ford along with veterans Michael Hoomanawanui and Daniel Fells. A very solid group either way behind the world's best tightend until he returns.

- Pass Rushers Michael Buchanan and Jamie Collins are both hybrids, with Collins being a the star of the draft. I think both have explosive upside and unlimited potential. Buchanan playing the defensive end role and Jamie Collins being our OLB will be interesting to see which guy emerges as an immediate help in the pass rushing game.

- Tavon Wilson vs Adrian Wilson, up and coming safety vs veteran guy

- Ras-I Dowling, I've heard so much about his star potential as he does have that type of talent but will he beat out Alfonzo Dennard?

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

I don't think they're going to use Collins as a pass rusher in his rookie year.

That's an insane statement, as he is a freak with his speed, size and athleticism. And yes he can cover with that skillset but why wouldn't they use him for what he was primarily drafted for?

 

[QB12]

^^Agreed. Like buying a Porsche to use as a grocery getter.

 

[belichick010405]

While I'm sure that's part of it, I also have the "problem" of not liking any phase of the Patriots offseason, among other things:

FA retention - sucked
FA gains - sucked
Draft pick decisions - sucked
offseason issues - sucked
Kraft lying his his ass off - sucked
Gronk's transformation into crystal - sucked
Manning-led Broncos team seemingly improved - sucks
Top NFC contenders in Seattle and SF seemingly improving - sucked
Hell, even the logo change sucked

I'm sure something will eventually get me excited about the season, but it's just not there yet.

Deus - just let us know when you get a job with the Patriots so that we know the ship has corrected its course. Thanks in advance - Sarcasm.

 

[jmt57]

I'm trying to figure out how Jake Ballard and Kanorris Davis got so much better in just a matter of a few hours yesterday.

Based on the timing I was thinking that some of the players on PUP and NFI were there because they failed to pass the conditioning test - but that wasn't the case, at least according to Andy Hart.

Reports: Gronkowski among 8 Patriots on PUP/NFI

Ballard seemed to limp and lack fluid movement this spring, and the fact that he’s unable to perform a year and a half removed from his injury is somewhat surprising.

Players who open camp on the active PUP list are the only ones eligible to open the season on the reserve PUP list, which would eliminate them from at least the first six weeks of the season. Players can be removed from the active PUP list at any point during the summer.

Also on Monday New England reportedly placed defensive lineman Armond Armstead on the active NFI list for a non-football illness. The former USC star and CFL import had been practicing during the spring and is expected to compete for a job along the defensive line. He has a history of heart problems after a heart attack cut his USC career short, leading to a lawsuit against the school and his ending up in the CFL for a season before signing with the Patriots as a free agent this spring.

Three other players were placed on the traditional NFI list, non-football injury, including rookie wide receiver Mark Harrison, rookie defensive back Kanorris Davis and rookie offensive lineman Matt Stankiewitch. All three apparently failed their initial camp physical due to an injury not suffered in the realm of their football work with the Patriots this spring/summer. Harrison joined the Patriots with a foot injury.

As with PUP, the NFI players can be removed from the list at any point this summer.​

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm trying to figure out how Jake Ballard and Kanorris Davis got so much better in just a matter of a few hours yesterday.

The answer is obvious but if I told you, the thread would veer off onto another Tebow thread

 

[resdubwhite]

The answer is obvious but if I told you, the thread would veer off onto another Tebow thread

He does move in mysterious ways.

Shame he can't use it on Timmys throwing action.

 

[Kontradiction]

The fact that Collins is an athletic freak is why you let him rush the passer. One of the reasons he got drafted is because he can get after the QB. I miss the Belichick defenses where you never knew where the pressure was coming from, McGinest off the edge, Seymour up the middle, Bruschi and Vrabel from everywhere, Harrison with the safety blitz, Tully Banta Cain and Jarvis Green off the edge, the opponent just never knew what was going to hit them next.

That's what we need again in New England. Offensive lines will have to deal with Jones, Wilfork and Ninkovich and hopefully others coming from the D-Line, I want Collins, Hightower and Mayo to be the new McGinest, Vrabel and Bruschi, I want them to be unleashed, attacking the O-Line when they least expect it, which would help our suspect DBs as well. I dream of a fierce pass rush again, and hopefully we can get 5-7 sacks from Collins this season.

That's an insane statement, as he is a freak with his speed, size and athleticism. And yes he can cover with that skillset but why wouldn't they use him for what he was primarily drafted for?

It's not insane at all if you recognize that kind of issues that the Patriots had in coverage against TE's and RB's out of the backfield last season. Collins could, and probably will, eventually morph into being an edge rusher for this team. But in the beginning I expect him to be a coverage specialist. You can have the '85 Bears pass rush, but if you're allowing TE's and RB's to abuse your LB's that badly, it's not going to matter. The opposing quarterback will just pick you apart over the middle of the field all day long. The Ravens did just that in the AFCCG to get going on offense before Boldin woke up.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

It's not insane at all if you recognize that kind of issues that the Patriots had in coverage against TE's and RB's out of the backfield last season. Collins could, and probably will, eventually morph into being an edge rusher for this team. But in the beginning I expect him to be a coverage specialist. You can have the '85 Bears pass rush, but if you're allowing TE's and RB's to abuse your LB's that badly, it's not going to matter. The opposing quarterback will just pick you apart over the middle of the field all day long. The Ravens did just that in the AFCCG to get going on offense before Boldin woke up.

Rob Ninkovich is pretty good in coverage, and Adrian Wilson could help in that regards as well. Don't get me wrong, I think Jamie Collins does add coverage skills with his speed and experience at Safety but his PRIMARY REASON FOR DRAFT I'm sure was to rush the passer. Additionally, with more pressure to the opposing qb faster that can help out other guys like Don'ta Hightower and Jerod Mayo in coverage. Especially if the TE's and RB's don't have enough time to get open because their quarterback is laying flat on his back. Say what you may, but pass rush always, and I mean always benefits coverage on every great defense. It makes coverage that much more easier.

 

[supafly]

Hell, even the logo change sucked

LOL

That one cracked me up.

Underwhelming to the say the least, especially when one of the wide receivers in training camp is nicknamed "Molasses Mike".

I wouldn't worry too much about a guy who is projected to add as a possession receiver.

How much slower than Llyod or Branch can he possibly be? Really.

I'm not saying that having a guy nicknames "Molasses" is necessarily a good thing, but we need to try and keep it in context to. I highly doubt that Belichick tried to solve our problem of not being able to stretch the field and draw any safety attention by bringing in a guy nicknamed "Molasses Mike." That just doen't make much sense to me. Obviously he has some sort of idea in mind as to how he may contribute.

 

[naF staP]

Patriots on their way to training camp!