Explosive New Hernandez Details

[Concerned_Citizen]

I agree 100%. But there are people in here talking about how they believe that people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Those people must believe OJ is innocent, or they are hypocrites.

Every responsible citizen should believe in innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. Anyone that doesn't is a fool and is probably a top official in the North Korean government.

But a lot of people confuse that with court of public opinion. They are the types that say we should not judge or comment until due process plays out. That flies in the face of human nature, especially when due process sometimes can take YEARS to play out.

 

[BradyFTW!]

i know this was brought up before this but here is an intersting question? The police have going in to AH's house 2 times with search warrants why did they not take the cell phone on either of those times into the home and why did they not take the security footage either of those times? For all those saying it looks bad for AH (and it does not look good) there are way too many unanswered questions involving the police work here and failing that he media making things larger then they might be

Probably neither was covered in the scope of their original search warrant?

 

[A.C Vegas]

Source where I said that's what happened?

Actually, someone who has suddenly and out of the blue decided to have their house scrubbed clean from basement to attic does raise red flags. It's not the sort of thing that would be admissible in a court of law, but it is the sort of thing that would make a detective go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmm"

there you go I sourced it for you. you did not explictedly say it but you did imply it

 

[FCB02062]

Wonder how the Pats fanboys would be acting if someone on the NYJ was involved in a homicide????? Methinks it would be pretty ugly. Looks like Rex Ryan's keeping a better rein on his players than coach Bill....

 

[Rob0729]

i know this was brought up before this but here is an intersting question? The police have going in to AH's house 2 times with search warrants why did they not take the cell phone on either of those times into the home and why did they not take the security footage either of those times? For all those saying it looks bad for AH (and it does not look good) there are way too many unanswered questions involving the police work here and failing that he media making things larger then they might be

With a search warrant, you can only take evidence stated on the warrant. If they do not have a warrant to cover certain things, they have to get a second warrant that will cover those things.

 

[mgcolby]

The comparison is that everytime someone declares they believe in "innocent until proven guilty" then that person must either believe OJ is innocent, or they are a hypocrite.

Simple fact is that "innocent until proven guilty" is the rule in a court of law, but out here we can all talk and speculate all we want because nothing that anyone in here says will result in anyone going to jail.

Would I say Hernandez has right now been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? Of course not. But I am perfectly comfortable at this point saying I think he is guilty. (Not necessarily guilty of being the triggerman, but of being involved in some way)

Innocent until proven guilty is a rule in the court of law, I get that. And it is based on proving the person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I get that. And the jury is made up of 12 private citizens. I get that. What I don't get is your premise that only jurors sitting in the box can come to a conclusion in their mind if someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The folks watching the trial live on tv are barred from coming to that conclusion based on the fact of the case? Basically, I don't feel like a hypocrite and no I don't have to believe OJ is innoncent to believe innocent until proven guilty.

And you are free to jump to any conclusion you like as early as you like. The old wig wearing dudes threw that in the constitution as well. However, I am entitled to find folks to be foolish for jumping to the conclusion of "guilty of something", based on media speculation and unnamed sources; without a single police interview/press conference, a single arrest made and without a single comment from the person they believe to be guilty of something.

I'll reserve my judgement until the facts come out. Hell any fact(s) out of the mouth of an official associated with the investigation on record. A silly concept in today's self-righteous society, I know, but hey call me old fashion.

 

[SB39]

Media pressure can get the Krafts and the Commissioner to tell Ropes & Gray to make this go away, even if it means advising their newest client to throw himself on the mercy of the court.

No offense, but that's kind of laughable. If Ropes and Gray did a single thing Kraft or Goodell told them to do involving their representation of Hernandez, it would be so grossly unethical that not only would they never practice law again, they could be in some legal trouble themselves.

If the extent of Hernandez' problem is destroying evidence and obstructing justice, there's still time to come clean and plea bargain. There may be a plea negotiation in progress right now.

Right now we're at the stage where the only negotiations taking place is how and where Hernandez will surrender to the authorites. Plea negotiations come later.

(NOTE: I'm not saying those negotiations are currently taking place, I'm just saying that if there are negotiations taking place, then that's what it would be about).

 

[A.C Vegas]

Probably neither was covered in the scope of their original search warrant?

That I can believe but it still makes it seem like they are reaching for something or the media is overblowing things. It's also brings up the question why not have a warrant for those things already seems like and obvious thing to get and doubtfully that hard to add to a warrant

 

[Concerned_Citizen]

Probably neither was covered in the scope of their original search warrant?

That's what I was gonna ask. Doesn't that have to be included in the warrant beforehand or have a separate warrant to search his phone?

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I miss the talk about stolen Super Bowl rings and Tebow's (in)ability to read defenses. Far less depressing...

 

[BradyFTW!]

As I said, I agree with your principle here. However, O.J. was aquitted. Under the "innocent until proven guilty" standard, you've got no business agreeing with me that he's guilty. It's one thing to demand the standard in court. It's another to expect individuals not to make such decisions for themselves outside the legal framework. The best that we can ask (and I'm with you on this, and am discussing it with Brick Pat) is that they wait for the evidence to be in, verfied and/or conceded.

Exactly. Based on the reports that we've seen so far, it definitely looks like he's guilty. If I was on the jury trying this case, though, I'd need to see a lot more evidence.

A jury's standard in a court of law is one thing. But in my own life, outside of the jury, I don't need to be certain of something beyond a reasonable doubt in order to have an opinion that I'm pretty confident is the truth.

 

[SB39]

there you go I sourced it for you. you did not explictedly say it but you did imply it

I was just responding to someone who said hiring cleaners isn't a red flag, and I was just making it clear that it was.

I have no doubt the police talked to the house cleaners to find out when they were hired, what they cleaned, etc. That's pretty much the textbook definition of "red flag."

 

[goheels22002]

No offense, but that's kind of laughable. If Ropes and Gray did a single thing Kraft or Goodell told them to do involving their representation of Hernandez, it would be so grossly unethical that not only would they never practice law again, they could be in some legal trouble themselves.
Right now we're at the stage where the only negotiations taking place is how and where Hernandez will surrender to the authorites. Plea negotiations come later.

(NOTE: I'm not saying those negotiations are currently taking place, I'm just saying that if there are negotiations taking place, then that's what it would be about).

I get it. You hire a law firm that does not even list criminal law as a practice area - Ropes & Gray LLP: Practices - to represent an employee, and you have nothing to say about how the case is handled. Don't be ridiculous.

The plea deal is precisely where they are. You allocute that your guilty of X, you testify, and we'll ask for Y. When do you think Johnny Martarano got 12 years and immunity for 20 murders? After he was convicted or before any trial took place?

 

[Concerned_Citizen]

That I can believe but it still makes it seem like they are reaching for something or the media is overblowing things. It's also brings up the question why not have a warrant for those things already seems like and obvious thing to get and doubtfully that hard to add to a warrant

Definately an oversight on the part of the investigators unless the cops couldn't convince a judge of probably cause to get a warrant for the phones. Someone screwed up somewhere, because checking the phones when someone is identified as a suspect of a murder seems almost a no brainer to me unless there is some sort of expectation of privacy.

That on the judge or the cops?

Leaning towards police screwup of not getting that included in the warrant.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Even with his money, which isn't OJ money, he is looking at 5 or so years I assume?

He is screwed, even if he 'didn't know/tried to stop it' he is still getting some time, and won't be playing for us this season. Sucks because of his age, I see it happen so much here in Boston that I won't be surprised.

 

[A.C Vegas]

i looked up the Mass. search warrant laws and this opening paragragh seems a little vague to me. Some of the lawyers on the board might make more sense of it the me but it look like to me they need a list of things they are allowed to take?

Section 1. A court or justice authorized to issue warrants in criminal cases may, upon complaint on oath that the complainant believes that any of the property or articles hereinafter named are concealed in a house, place, vessel or vehicle or in the possession of a person anywhere within the commonwealth and territorial waters thereof, if satisfied that there is probable cause for such belief, issue a warrant identifying the property and naming or describing the person or place to be searched and commanding the person seeking such warrant to search for the following property or articles:

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I get it. You hire a law firm that does not even list criminal law as a practice area - Ropes & Gray LLP: Practices - to represent an employee, and you have nothing to say about how the case is handled. Don't be ridiculous.

Doesn't matter who pays. The canons of legal ethics require the lawyer to put his client's interests first, even over the interests of the person paying the lawyer.

Now, you may wish to say that in reality that doesn't hold up, and that specifically here Ropes & Grey is being unethical. But that doesn't change what the ethical rules are.

 

[Deus Irae]

That I can believe but it still makes it seem like they are reaching for something or the media is overblowing things. It's also brings up the question why not have a warrant for those things already seems like and obvious thing to get and doubtfully that hard to add to a warrant

I'm not saying it's the case here, but you can sometimes get piggyback situations, where one piece of evidence leads to another, and that can expand searches.

They may not have had cause to check on his phone, for example, until they got records back from the carrier.*



*This is why throwaway phones are a good idea if you don't trust the government.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Even with his money, which isn't OJ money, he is looking at 5 or so years I assume?

He is screwed, even if he 'didn't know/tried to stop it' he is still getting some time, and won't be playing for us this season. Sucks because of his age, I see it happen so much here in Boston that I won't be surprised.

where are you getting that information from 5 years for what?

 

[JMC00]

I get it. You hire a law firm that does not even list criminal law as a practice area - Ropes & Gray LLP: Practices - to represent an employee, and you have nothing to say about how the case is handled. Don't be ridiculous.

His lawyer
Ropes & Gray LLP: Michael K. Fee

Prior to joining the firm, Michael was a federal prosecutor in the Public Integrity Section of the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice

And where has it been said that the Patriots hired this guy for Hernandez?