The 2013 Prospect Thread

[mayoclinic]

32" arms is selling him a little short. Think it was 32 7/8 if I remember which is pretty close to Nate Solder (33 1/4). It's his athleticism that will help him compare to other guyw. Pretty confident he'll lead all OL's at the combine in athletic drills.

Solder had 35 1/2" at the 2011 NFL Combine weigh-in, FWIW.

But regarding Armstead, where do you project him to play, how high would you take him, and how high do you realistically think he will go? There's no doubt he's a good looking prospect. But do you see him being potentially an immediate starter? I could see someone like DJ Fluker getting plugged in immediately at either RG or RT, and being a mainstay of the line. Not so sure that Armstead is ready at either tackle or guard. Is it a question of tagging Vollmer and keeping him for a year while Armstead develops as a replacement?

I'm nit picking. I like Armstead. He's a good prospect. I'd have no problem getting him, it's more a question of where the value is, where he projects, and where he ranks vs. other prospects.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I'm seeing some inconsistencies in Armstead's weigh-ins. The differences are small, but differences nonetheless. What is the best weigh-in chart you guys have seen?

On an unrelated note, what happened to Wes Bunting? I can't find anything.

 

[Sciz]

On an unrelated note, what happened to Wes Bunting? I can't find anything.

Not doing anything related to football.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Not doing anything related to football.

Did he get fired or get a job offer in a different career?

 

[ATippett56]

Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Arm length = 33"

 

[mackenzie45220]

Best and worst from the Senior Bowl

Best: Cyprien, Kawann Short, Ansah, Duke Williams, Vernon, Vince Williams, Warford, Tyler Wilson

Worst: Gilkey (undraftable), Sylvester Williams, Fisher, Jordan Mills, Glennon

 

[EwanSellars]

everyone said fisher was the player that was the best of the whole senior bowl

 

[fightingirish595]

Best and worst from the Senior Bowl

Best: Cyprien, Kawann Short, Ansah, Duke Williams, Vernon, Vince Williams, Warford, Tyler Wilson

Worst: Gilkey (undraftable), Sylvester Williams, Fisher, Jordan Mills, Glennon

you like warford yet? i remember a few months ago, you didnt. same with trufant

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Arm length = 33"

It says 33.5" but that's just what I mean. Mayo just said 32 inches, then Manx said 32 and 7 8ths, then CBS says 33.5 inches. It's all over the board and those are pretty big differences.

 

[mayoclinic]

It says 33.5" but that's just what I mean. Mayo just said 32 inches, then Manx said 32 and 7 8ths, then CBS says 33.5 inches. It's all over the board and those are pretty big differences.

It's not that uncommon for prospects to measure slightly differently at different venues, even in the height and length measurements, which are slightly subjective. It's easy to be off half an inch or so in where you're starting to measure arm length, for example.

As for Armstead, his Shrine Game measurements a couple of weeks ago included a reported height of 6'5" and arm length of 33 1/2":

East West Shrine Game Measureables | National Football Post

Armstead was a late addition to the Senior Bowl, so his weigh in results occurred later than most participants, and weren't in the original reports. But subsequent reports were that he measured at 6' 4 3/4" with an arm length of 32 7/8":

Senior Bowl Weigh-In Results, NFL Draft - DraftCountdown.com

Draft sites such as CBS only use measurements from one of the "official" events, so that further augments confusion. Armstead will get measured again at the NFL Combine, which may differ from both of those, and which will probably be used as the "official" measurements. But these are close enough. It seems like Armstead is around 6'5" or a hair under in height, with an arm length of around 33" give or take a tiny bit. I remembered "32 +" from the NFL DraftCountdown report, and used "32", which is probably too low.

It seems like Armstead's arms are a bit on the short side for his frame and certainly not ideal, but not egregiously short to the point where they would be a huge red flag. But on the short side. Brian Bulaga had an arm length of 33 1/4" at a height of 6' 5 3/8" at the 2010 Combine, and he's played more guard than tackle, though there is talk of Green Bay moving him to left tackle in 2012. Riley Reiff also weighed in with 33 1/4" arms last year at 6' 5", causing a number of teams to question whether he would be better suited to guard than to tackle. Both Bulaga and Reiff were touted as possible top-10 picks, and both fell to the early 20's based in part on their arm measurements and concern about where they projected. So I don't think it's unreasonable to question whether Armstead projects better to guard than to tackle. Garrett Gilkey, at 6' 5 7/8", had an arm length of only 31 3/4", which is extremely short, suggesting that he's probably a guard only in the NFL.

 

[manxman2601]

Solder had 35 1/2" at the 2011 NFL Combine weigh-in, FWIW.

But regarding Armstead, where do you project him to play, how high would you take him, and how high do you realistically think he will go? There's no doubt he's a good looking prospect. But do you see him being potentially an immediate starter? I could see someone like DJ Fluker getting plugged in immediately at either RG or RT, and being a mainstay of the line. Not so sure that Armstead is ready at either tackle or guard. Is it a question of tagging Vollmer and keeping him for a year while Armstead develops as a replacement?

I'm nit picking. I like Armstead. He's a good prospect. I'd have no problem getting him, it's more a question of where the value is, where he projects, and where he ranks vs. other prospects.

I actually meant to say Vollmer, was dashing the post off before work.

As to where I play Armstead, I see him developing on a track:

1. Let him battle Marcus Cannon in camp to backup or replace Vollmer depending what happens to him.

2. If he loses to Cannon, he can spend a year as a blocking TE, 3rd OT, short yardage FB, backup OL and special teams. The video I posted showed that he is a threat to catch the ball so he's have to be respected by opposing defenses at the goalline or on FG's, PAT's etc. That's plenty of plays where he'll get on the field.

3. Enrol him in Dante's Academy of Dance. Let him decide whether he projects best at OT or OG. Give him a year to learn technique and he should be ready to dance in 2014.


If he blitzes the combine which I think is very possible (particularly in the speed/agility drills), then I'd be prepared to take him as high as the third. If he looks good in the position drills and really wows in the athletic/strength drills I'd even be prepared to go as high as a 2nd because of his upside. I am talking about "best in a decade" type wow though.

I'm not trying to persuade you or anything, just value your feedback.

Note I haven't watched the Senior Bowl yet so will judge his performance there too.

 

[celticboy04]

Greetings,
I would love to draft a stud inside pass rusher or a player who can put pressure on the QB who can contribute right away!

 

[mayoclinic]

I actually meant to say Vollmer, was dashing the post off before work.

As to where I play Armstead, I see him developing on a track:

1. Let him battle Marcus Cannon in camp to backup or replace Vollmer depending what happens to him.

2. If he loses to Cannon, he can spend a year as a blocking TE, 3rd OT, short yardage FB, backup OL and special teams. The video I posted showed that he is a threat to catch the ball so he's have to be respected by opposing defenses at the goalline or on FG's, PAT's etc. That's plenty of plays where he'll get on the field.

3. Enrol him in Dante's Academy of Dance. Let him decide whether he projects best at OT or OG. Give him a year to learn technique and he should be ready to dance in 2014.


If he blitzes the combine which I think is very possible (particularly in the speed/agility drills), then I'd be prepared to take him as high as the third. If he looks good in the position drills and really wows in the athletic/strength drills I'd even be prepared to go as high as a 2nd because of his upside. I am talking about "best in a decade" type wow though.

I'm not trying to persuade you or anything, just value your feedback.

Note I haven't watched the Senior Bowl yet so will judge his performance there too.

Fair enough. Right now I have him in the mix along with Kyle Long, Reid Fragel and Menelik Watson in the "not immediate, but developmental potential startter" class. I'm probably leaning towards taking a Cooper or Fluker if they are available in the right range, with the latter a likely target if Vollmer leaves, but otherwise they are definitely in the mix, with the next 3 months to sort out which the relative order of preference.

 

[manxman2601]

Fair enough. Right now I have him in the mix along with Kyle Long, Reid Fragel and Menelik Watson in the "not immediate, but developmental potential startter" class. I'm probably leaning towards taking a Cooper or Fluker if they are available in the right range, with the latter a likely target if Vollmer leaves, but otherwise they are definitely in the mix, with the next 3 months to sort out which the relative order of preference.

I've been watching a fair bit of Fluker. He's a beast in the run game (almost Warmack good) but he isn't the quickest or most agile which is pretty important in our offense. I don't like him as a RT because of those feet. His wing span compensates a fair bit but I think speed rushers will find him out. I'd only want his as a monstrous OG.

I saw one play where he pushed Damontre Moore back 10 yards with Eddie Lacy running right behind him.

 

[manxman2601]

I saw my first mock today without Jonathan Hankins in it. And with the rise of the likes of Cordarelle Patterson, Quinton Patton and maybe even Markus Wheaton, I can envisage a scenario where Keenan Allen could fall. How would that affect your thinking on the first round? Would you snap up the falling talent or stick with your current favourites assuming they're still in play?

 

[mayoclinic]

I saw my first mock today without Jonathan Hankins in it. And with the rise of the likes of Cordarelle Patterson, Quinton Patton and maybe even Markus Wheaton, I can envisage a scenario where Keenan Allen could fall. How would that affect your thinking on the first round? Would you snap up the falling talent or stick with your current favourites assuming they're still in play?

I tend to discount post-Senior Bowl mocks, because there is almost always a major influx of new "first round" players based on the hype from Senior Bowl week. Then things settle down, the Combine nad pro days role around, teams look at more tape, and frequently things calm down a bit.

I personally think it's a bad idea to over-draft players based on a great Senior Bowl week. Remember Sedrick Ellis destroying the competition in 2008 and becoming an instant top 10 pick? Cam Jordan in 2011? In fact, the opposite may be a better way to go. Nate Solder had a lousy Senior Bowl week in 2011, and was downgraded by many to be a 2nd round pick based on his performance. That didn't deter the Pats.

I think you need to go back to tape of players during the regular seaosn, more than anything. And the tape says that Johnathan Hankins and Keenan Allen are more likely to be blue chip players than Kawann Short and Quinton Patton.

I think the appropriate thing to do after each event - the bowl games, the Combine, the Pro Days - is go back to the tape and re-assess. Look for things you may have missed, good or bad. But don't discount the tape. JMHO.

 

[mackenzie45220]

everyone said fisher was the player that was the best of the whole senior bowl

I don't get to see the practices, but I heard he was good in those. In the game itself, not so much

 

[mackenzie45220]

you like warford yet? i remember a few months ago, you didnt. same with trufant

Warford always flashed signs of talent in pure blocking, but he frequently looked like he never knew where he was supposed to be. His on field awareness wasn't great in the senior bowl (twice in pass protection Brian Schwenke passed a defensive tackle off to him and he didn't notice, continuing to double team the end. I presume Schwenke yelled out a call at least once). But he no longer looked as confused as a run blocker, which is a big deal. I'm neutral to him at this point

Trufant was hardly tested, but he showed speed.

 

[mackenzie45220]

One guy that did intrigue me at the Senior Bowl: Josh Boyd.

Coming into the season, after researching Josh Boyd, he sounded like and underrated prospect. Good measurables (6'3, 312, 4.96 40), good stats (51 tackles, 8 TFL's, 4.5 sacks), against good competition. I never saw any film on him as a junior, and, frankly, he had a terrible senior season. Was extremely out of shape and even lost playing time as the season went on. Complete disappointment. Looking at these last two all star games, I saw bits and pieces of the Josh Boyd that had stats as good as those of Fletcher Cox in 2011. He didn't play a lot, and didn't make any tackles, but flashed elite quickness, solid strength, and lots of pass rushing potential.

So why is this so interesting? Replace the words "Josh Boyd" with "Geno Atkins" in the previous paragraph and everything remains true (except 6'3).

 

[mackenzie45220]

Corey Fuller looks pretty good