Stud WR Won't Fix Anything (Remember 2007?)

[Ian]

A stud WR in this offense MEANS EVERYTHING ! A guy TB can look to outside the hashes when opposing defenses collapsethe inner part of the hashes like they did Sunday night and always did in prior Big Playoff games because we had nothing on the exterior. NO MORE, tired of it. We need a playmaker outside and another redzone option when Gronk as will happen, goes down again for something else.

Exactly - but you don't necessarily need a "stud" to do that, just someone younger and better than someone like Branch who can also do what you're suggesting. They really need a couple of decent perimeter guys who are in their late 20's instead of early 30's, or they need to draft one. But they need to get a little younger down the depth chart and at least have guys who have some speed and can get separation on the outside.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I agree. This team needs to be more rounded in terms of depth rather than a stud receiving target to add to the current roster. A stud WR would be nice, but not necessary.

As Bedard pointed out in his column today, Branch was on the field for 47% of the plays and didn't draw any attention from the Ravens' defenders leaving them to double team Welker, Hernandez, and/or Lloyd.

they need more help on D than they do on O..that's for sure

 

[Ian]

they need more help on D than they do on O..that's for sure

No question, but it's still an issue. Although I don't think they need to break the bank to solve it and would rather see them spend more on the secondary to stabilize it heading into next year.

 

[Rob0729]

difference was moss was a burner on the outside...gronk can't burn someone on the outside but can out muscle almost anyone on the D

Two different types of players. What Moss did that year help the pats a tremendous amount. Ds were scared of them going deep backing off every other play

Teams had to gameplan for Moss and teams had to gameplan for Gronk. Different reasons. Similar results. Also, Gronk adds an element in the running game that Moss couldn't offer. Moss was a good run blocker for a WR, but that is nothing compared to an elite run blocking TE like Gronk.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Teams had to gameplan for Moss and teams had to gameplan for Gronk. Different reasons. Similar results. Also, Gronk adds an element in the running game that Moss couldn't offer. Moss was a good run blocker for a WR, but that is nothing compared to an elite run blocking TE like Gronk.

If you knew we had ahren and ballard at 100%...would you rather have megatron with brady..or gronk. Factor in injuries, age ect

just curious

 

[Rob0729]

A stud WR in this offense MEANS EVERYTHING ! A guy TB can look to outside the hashes when opposing defenses collapse the inner part of the hashes like they did Sunday night and always did in prior Big Playoff games because we had nothing on the exterior. NO MORE, tired of it. We need a playmaker outside and another redzone option when Gronk as will happen, goes down again for something else.

A stud WR does not mean everything. Last year the offense was good enough to be a minute away from winning the Super Bowl with a hobbled Gronk and no stud WR. They were the third highest scoring offense of all time this year without a stud WR.

You can only dedicate so much money to your receiving corp. Both Gronk and Hernandez got big deals. If Welker stays, he will get a big deal. They can't afford to pay a stud WR on top of that.

A stud WR is nice to have, but not neccessary. Unless Gronk continues to get injured for the playoffs year after year, he is just as effective as most stud WRs.

 

[olschool]

much of that was on the offensive line. patsfans.com has a problem with correlation and causation. Poor offensive line play will hinder any offense but that wasn't the problem on sunday. Lack of separation, inability to threaten from sideline to sideline as well poor adjustments and execution did. Its come pretty apparent that these "historically great" offenses have been coming up short in the post season and there hasn't been a consistent reason as to why.

The reason why they come up short, is that this offense runs into defenses that MAKE them come up short.

If the Pats defense could have held the Ravens to 12 points on Sunday, we wouldn't be having this discussion, we'd be waiting for the Superbowl.

 

[Rob0729]

If you knew we had ahren and ballard at 100%...would you rather have megatron with brady..or gronk

just curious

The problem with this hypothetical is that is something that would never happen. We will never have this option. Megatron is never going to leave Detriot.

Yes, if Detriot was going to trade Megatron for Gronk straight up I say go for it. Never will happen, but sure. I have said that Gronk is just as much an impact on the offense and requires just as much attention as MOST stud WRs EXCEPT Magatron, Larry Fitzgerald, and maybe a few others.

If you were going to rank all receivers no matter the position (both WRs and TEs), I would put Gronk in the 5-10 range while Megatron would be #1.

 

[Rob0729]

No question, but it's still an issue. Although I don't think they need to break the bank to solve it and would rather see them spend more on the secondary to stabilize it heading into next year.

+10000. The current Pats offense with a much better defense would more likely win the Super Bowl than the Pats' offense with the addition of a stud WR and only minor upgrades to the defense.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

The problem with this hypothetical is that is something that would never happen. We will never have this option. Megatron is never going to leave Detriot.

Yes, if Detriot was going to trade Megatron for Gronk straight up I say go for it. Never will happen, but sure. I have said that Gronk is just as much an impact on the offense and requires just as much attention as MOST stud WRs EXCEPT Magatron, Larry Fitzgerald, and maybe a few others.

If you were going to rank all receivers no matter the position (both WRs and TEs), I would put Gronk in the 5-10 range while Megatron would be #1.

that's what i am talking about..just say a strait up trade..i would hope people would pick johnson so long as we have other TEs (ballard and ahern)

 

[UofApatsfan]

Remind me who were the tight ends and running backs in 2007? Ben Watson? Kyle Brady? Maroney? Sammy Morris?

How do they compare with Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard, Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead in productivity?

Randy and Wes were awesome weapons. Even they needed some help as we were fading late in the year.

Now we have lots more awesome weapons in the under-20-yard passing game and not much beyond.

The situation doesn't compare to 2007. It's not just like apples and oranges, it's like apples and fence posts.

This pretty much took a steamy ***** on the OP.

 

[Ian]

The problem with this hypothetical is that is something that would never happen. We will never have this option. Megatron is never going to leave Detriot.

Yes, if Detriot was going to trade Megatron for Gronk straight up I say go for it. Never will happen, but sure. I have said that Gronk is just as much an impact on the offense and requires just as much attention as MOST stud WRs EXCEPT Magatron, Larry Fitzgerald, and maybe a few others.

If you were going to rank all receivers no matter the position (both WRs and TEs), I would put Gronk in the 5-10 range while Megatron would be #1.

I don't know...tough to trade Gronk for a WR because he's basically as good of a blocker as he as pass-catcher. As Bedard pointed out, that was something they really missed Sunday because Hernandez and everyone else struggled. But obviously this is a hypothetical discussion anyway

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not opposed to one, but unless they draft one I don't see how it is feasible capwise. In free agency, it is either Welker or a big bodied and athletic WR that runs all the routes and threatens at every level. Not both. And I would rather have the Pats spend any big free agent dollars on defense other than on Welker or his replacement.

That's the best plan, IMO. Sign Welker, sign Talib, draft said WR, and draft enforcer safety.

 

[UofApatsfan]

That's the best plan, IMO. Sign Welker, sign Talib, draft said WR, and draft enforcer safety.

I could see filling the hole at receiver with a rookie since that player won't be relied on to do too much. If Gronk is healthy and Welker is resigned, the only real need they have at receiver is someone who can draw a safety away from the middle of the field.

On the flip side, IMO, the safety they need isn't someone who can be found in the draft even if they had a top 10 pick to use. Whoever they put at safety next to McCourty needs to be someone who provides nastiness and leadership in addition to being an enforcer. I don't see a rookie safety coming in and initially doing anything to change the attitude of the defense.

 

[Kontradiction]

I could see filling the hole at receiver with a rookie since that player won't be relied on to do too much. If Gronk is healthy and Welker is resigned, the only real need they have at receiver is someone who can draw a safety away from the middle of the field.

On the flip side, IMO, the safety they need isn't someone who can be found in the draft even if they had a top 10 pick to use. Whoever they put at safety next to McCourty needs to be someone who provides nastiness and leadership in addition to being an enforcer. I don't see a rookie safety coming in and initially doing anything to change the attitude of the defense.

I stated draft for a couple of reasons...

1. I don't see Reed coming aboard after the Super Bowl visit.

2. This is a VERY deep draft for safeties.

 

[UofApatsfan]

I stated draft for a couple of reasons...

1. I don't see Reed coming aboard after the Super Bowl visit.

2. This is a VERY deep draft for safeties.

Well idk who suggested Reed but regardless I agree with the fact that there isn't a snowball's chance in hell Reed comes here.

I understand this draft is deep with safeties, but like I said their need at strong safety goes beyond talent or potential.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Plus even if he would come here, Ed Reed isn't a hard hitter/enforcer and he's always been the one guy on Baltimore who's classy and humble after every game. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it's not the personality they need at strong safety. They have quiet players at every other position on defense.

 

[olschool]

I don't know...tough to trade Gronk for a WR because he's basically as good of a blocker as he as pass-catcher. As Bedard pointed out, that was something they really missed Sunday because Hernandez and everyone else struggled. But obviously this is a hypothetical discussion anyway

Totally agree.

BB wouldn't trade Gronk for Jerry Rice in his prime. Gronk's blocking is one of the main reasons the running game is so improved. He's a double threat that Sunday's game proved would be difficult to replace.

 

[coolguy]

"Stud WR Won't Fix Anything (Remember 2007?)" Remember how horrible a route runner randy moss was/is?

Randy moss is completely worthless when his quarter back don't have time to wait for him to get open.

Greg jennings is a great route runner

 

[UofApatsfan]

There are plenty of receivers who run great routes but would struggle when the defense gets as much pressure as the Giants got with 4 man rushes in that game.

Even though Brady DID have limited weapons outside of Welker and Moss in that game, the big problem was a line that played elite all year and then fell apart. Fortunately that problem was fixed this preseason and Denver now has to deal with Dan Koppen's habit of getting abused by elite 3-4 defenses.