A little early, but: should the Patriots try to re-sign Wes Welker?

[JackBauer]

Reche Caldwell was not on the New England Patriots roster the following season.

The New England Patriots failed miserably at trying to replace Wes Welker whether by free agency, draft, or trade based upon the following 2012 NFL season results:

Anthony Gonzalez - 0 catches
Jabar Gaffney - 0 catches
Donte Stallworth - 1 catch
Chad Ochocinco - 0 catches
Jeremy Ebert - 0 catches
Greg Salas - 0 catches
Kamar Aiken - 0 catches

Appeal to history notwithstanding, which of those receivers were brought on to replace Welker?

 

[ATippett56]

Appeal to history notwithstanding, which of those receivers were brought on to replace Welker?

You really are getting desperate.

 

[JackBauer]

You really are getting desperate.

Getting desperate about what, exactly? Maybe don't expect to make incomprehensible posts and not get questioned on your reasoning.

 

[ATippett56]

Getting desperate about what, exactly? Maybe don't expect to make incomprehensible posts and not get questioned on your reasoning.

That's your problem

 

[JackBauer]

That's your problem

So are you going to answer the question or not?

 

[ATippett56]

So are you going to answer the question or not?

Anyone on the aforementioned list.

 

[JackBauer]

Anyone on the aforementioned list.

So it's your contention that any or all of the aforementioned were brought in as possible Welker replacements?

 

[ATippett56]

So it's your contention that any or all of the aforementioned were brought in as possible Welker replacements?

From the following list of wide receivers acquired or retained during the 2012 League Year:

Anthony Gonzalez
Jabar Gaffney
Donte Stallworth
Chad Ochocinco
Jeremy Ebert
Greg Salas

The answer if affirmative.

 

[RobertWeathers]

NFL franchises keep an open mind at roster solutions unlike you.

First you say Vollmer will get a 50% raise over Winston as a RT in the open-market. Ok fine. Now you say he'll be looked at as a LT by a team thats open-minded. With 5 career starts and a balky back, what will be be paid exactly?

You are talking in circles and now insulting me. We are done here.

 

[DocHoliday]

From the following list of wide receivers acquired or retained during the 2012 League Year:

Anthony Gonzalez
Jabar Gaffney
Donte Stallworth
Chad Ochocinco
Jeremy Ebert
Greg Salas

The answer if affirmative.

Gonzalez: Yes
Gaffney: LLoyd role
Stallworth: Lloyd Role the first time, then 3WR the second time
Ocho: Lloyd role
Ebert: Yes
Salas: Maybe

3/6 at best

 

[ATippett56]

First you say Vollmer will get a 50% raise over Winston as a RT in the open-market. Ok fine. Now you say he'll be looked at as a LT by a team thats open-minded. With 5 career starts and a balky back, what will be be paid exactly?

You are talking in circles and now insulting me. We are done here.

The anti-Welker crowd has gone insane.

 

[zipster9]

The anti-Welker crowd has gone insane.

I agree. I think it is silly some say Welker is not worth $10m/yr or more, etc..
It is not the commentors' $$, so who cares what commentor says is worth/not-worth.

If Patriots pay Welker $10m/yr, then Welker plays in 2013 and beyond. That helps our team.

If Patriots pay Welker $7m/yr, then Welker plays in 2013 and beyond. That helps our team.

I dont care what Patriots pay Welker, as long as he is a Patriot in 2013.

 

[Ring 6]

New England Patriots: Sebastian Vollmer

Aha, I see the error. He said Vollmer has never been an ALLPRO, you must have read he has never been an ALLJOE

Seriously, we aren't paying Sebastian Vollmer 8mill a year with 12mill up front to play RT, unless the cap suddenly doubles.

 

[Ring 6]

Aside from future Hall-of-Fame wide receiver Randy Moss, consider all the wide receiver failures via the draft, trade, free agency since the 2003 NFL Season:

Bethel Johnson
P.K. Sam
Chad Jackson
Reche Caldwell
Jabar Gaffney
Doug Gabriel
"Bam" Childress
Donte Stallworth
Kelley Washington
Sam Aiken
Joey Galloway
Torry Holt
Brandon Tate
Taylor Price
Chad Ochostinko
Tiquan Underwood
Jeremy Ebert
Greg Salas

Yet some posters insist that Wes Welker is replaceable when ten seasons worth of evidence is contrary to that fact.

You do an excellent job of illustrating how the backup WR position has had a lot of turnover by including players who did well, and ignoring others.
We should make a list of all the QBs we have acquired since 2000, leave Brady off and judge the coaching staff could never replace him, and when he is done we will have to play without a QB.

 

[goheels22002]

I agree. I think it is silly some say Welker is not worth $10m/yr or more, etc..
It is not the commentors' $$, so who cares what commentor says is worth/not-worth.

I dont care what Patriots pay Welker, as long as he is a Patriot in 2013.

The reason people comment on the expenditure is that there is a hard salary cap. We all need to care what the Patriots spend on any individual player or position.

This season - 2012-2013 - Wes Welker was the highest paid Patriot at $9.5 million. Next year - 2013-2014 - Tom Brady is due $21.5 million under his current deal. If they give Welker $10 million, that will be two players getting $31.5 million of a $122 million salary cap - more than 25% of the available payroll.

We all love these guys but the team just cannot do that and stay competitive. The Jets are the best example - they have $80 million committed for next season to 10 guys leaving $42 million for the remaining 43 guys. They finished last in the AFC East and are now trapped because they over-committed to too few guys and have no depth whatsoever at any position.

You do care what they pay Welker. Believe me, you really do.

 

[Ring 6]

He'll be 32 and if he wants a signing bonus of anything guaranteed north of $16m he will either be franchised or not with the team next year.

Meanwhile Vollmer will be 29 next October and not nearly be demanding - nor getting big money. It'll be something sizably less than what Winston got from KC.

Now Talib will be 27 next month and if he plays at a superior level in the playoffs, all it takes is one team to decide hes is worth franchise-level CB money (think Corland Finnegan 5y/$50m/$27m guaranteed) for the Pats to walk away.

Why would the Patriots not give a 16mill signing bonus if they just paid him over 9mill this year? And why would they give him an 11+ tag number instead?

You seem to act as if WWW is battery operated and one day the battery will die.
Who gives a damn how much is bonus? He will have a role on this team even if he slows. Welker playing 40% of the snaps is a 70+ catch WR.

 

[Ring 6]

The reason people comment on the expenditure is that there is a hard salary cap. We all need to care what the Patriots spend on any individual player or position.

This season - 2012-2013 - Wes Welker was the highest paid Patriot at $9.5 million. Next year - 2013-2014 - Tom Brady is due $21.5 million under his current deal. If they give Welker $10 million, that will two players getting $31.5 million of a $122 million salary cap - more than 25% of the available payroll.

We all love these guys but the team just cannot do that and stay competitive. The Jets are the best example - they have $80 million committed for next season to 10 guys leaving $42 million for the remaining 43 guys. They finished last in the AFC East and are now trapped because they over-committed to too few guys and have no depth whatsoever at any position.

You do care what they pay Welker. Believe me, you really do.

You cannot compare the flotsam and jetsom NJ is spending their cap on to Tom Brady and Wes Welker. The reason the Jets suck isn't that they spent that money, its that they spent it wrong. If they have Brady and Welker they would be contenders. Instead they have Sanchez and Holmes at about the same cost.

 

[zipster9]

The reason people comment on the expenditure is that there is a hard salary cap. We all need to care what the Patriots spend on any individual player or position.

This season - 2012-2013 - Wes Welker was the highest paid Patriot at $9.5 million. Next year - 2013-2014 - Tom Brady is due $21.5 million under his current deal. If they give Welker $10 million, that will two players getting $31.5 million of a $122 million salary cap - more than 25% of the available payroll.

We all love these guys but the team just cannot do that and stay competitive. The Jets are the best example - they have $80 million committed for next season to 10 guys leaving $42 million for the remaining 43 guys. They finished last in the AFC East and are now trapped because they over-committed to too few guys and have no depth whatsoever at any position.

You do care what they pay Welker. Believe me, you really do.

Ok, I get this.

But, I'm sure there will be lots of players restructuring their contracts, such that they get "cash upfront", move to future yrs, etc.. that won't count against the 2013 cap...

 

[BrickPat]

Much talk has been about Welker's age but too many dismiss the guy's durability. The names talked about relative to potentionally replacing him from Edelman to Amendola are like China dolls compared to WW. Outside of that freak knee injury (which he came back from much earlier than other players with same injury) the guy is borderline freakish when it comes to toughness. The durability factor has just as much value as his skill set.

What good is having a cheaper (and likely less effective) version of Welker who is not playing because of yet another injury?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why would the Patriots not give a 16mill signing bonus if they just paid him over 9mill this year? And why would they give him an 11+ tag number instead?.

Because its a 1 year deal without a long-term financial commitment to a player who will be 32 years old at the start of the 2013 season. Looking into my crystal ball, I took a swag at the $16m because it's the exact point you just made. Barring injury, he should still be a 100 catch 1000+ yard guy in 2013 and "worth" $11m or so (will/can them team bring him back is a different story). In 2014 at 33, he should be as you say still highly productive, but at his age WRs typically start to show the wear and tear and a $10m cap hit/cash outlay locked into a play that isn't earning those dollars has a trickle-down effect on the entire roster. I'm assuming that they'll amortize it to lessen the blow. I just think it's not smart business to spend big money/long term deals on older players- except QBs_ risk goes up for not getting value as it relates to outlay of money and cap space used by the player.

You seem to act as if WWW is battery operated and one day the battery will die.

In 2013 he will be 32 years old. Most, if not all WRs at 32 are not as productive as they are at 26 years old so he is on the back 9 if you will. WW does not have a long career in front of him so yea, I guess I am looking at him like a battery...

Who gives a damn how much is bonus? He will have a role on this team even if he slows. Welker playing 40% of the snaps is a 70+ catch WR.

In 2013, I believe that the bonus/guaranteed dollars directly impacts their ability to sign Talib and Vollmer and potentially sign a FA they really like so I am concerned. In 2014, if WW's cap number is $10m and you got Brady to work on os he isn't a FA in 2015 and other players like Spikes, Ridley and maybe a couple of others that they want to re-sign, etc. then I am also concerned in that capacity as well...