The 2013 Prospect Thread

[mackenzie45220]

Have to say,he wasn't doing a lot of quarterbacking when he came up against Star Lotulelei (unless it's Mark Sanchez quarterbacking). Holmes looked completely lost and terrified. It's the only time I've focused on him and it was on of the worst quarters of football I've seen from a prospect. Picked it up a little later to b fair to him but if he can't handle premier DTs without getting clusters, I wouldn't want him in the firs round. sorry Mackenzie.

First of all, he did have a bum ankle in the game. Secondly, I'm not saying that he is an amazing blocker. He is solid, but not spectacular. What he does do though is recognize blitz schemes and organize the O-line, primarily on pass plays. And he's better at it than anyone I have ever seen. Case and point: the Stanford game. Since 2011 (the year Holmes became the starting center), Matt Barkley has been sacked 18 times in 20 games. 4 of those sacks came in the Stanford game, which Holmes missed due to injury. The offensive linemen were lost without him and simply had no idea what to do or who to block. It's not like his backup allowed penetration through the interior of the line. He just couldn't identify defenses as well as Holmes does. Holmes is the core of the line.

 

[manxman2601]

How do you Cooper fans compare him to Warmack?

I haven't done much OG research yet, but I'd love your opinions.

For a generic team, I'd give the edge to Warmack because he's a man amongst boys when it comes to sheer power. But Cooper is much more athletic and I think that gives him a Patriot edge in my mind. Would be cheering either though.

 

[manxman2601]

My Ziggy, Cooper, Williams interest has made Cornelius Carradine a little bit of a forgotten man for me of late. No more:

Cornellius "Tank" Carradine vs Miami (2012) - YouTube

In terms of being assignment sound, he's close to being the perfect Patriot. I also love the Chandler Jones-esque tap tackle sack.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Warmack is as good a guard you will ever see. Cooper achieves levels of domination close to that of Warmack, but Warmack is obviously doing it in the SEC, which is a major bonus.

Better than DeCastro?

For a generic team, I'd give the edge to Warmack because he's a man amongst boys when it comes to sheer power. But Cooper is much more athletic and I think that gives him a Patriot edge in my mind. Would be cheering either though.

Ok.

 

[mayoclinic]

My Ziggy, Cooper, Williams interest has made Cornelius Carradine a little bit of a forgotten man for me of late. No more:

Cornellius "Tank" Carradine vs Miami (2012) - YouTube

In terms of being assignment sound, he's close to being the perfect Patriot. I also love the Chandler Jones-esque tap tackle sack.

He's still high on my list. Mackenzie think's Carradine is closer to 6'3" than 6'5" and that could be a factor for me. I'd like my LDE to be bigger - more like 6'5" 270# or bigger. Carradine doesn't have Ansah's speed, pursuit, or fluidity, but he's a beast and he is very "Jones-esque", as you put it.

There's a lot of interesting prospects out there, and it's too early to get too locked in:

- DT: Lotulellei and Hankins are out of reach. Jonathan Jenkins has been gathering steam, though Mackenzie thinks he's a slug. Jesse Williams has been my sleeper binky, but I'm not averse to Kawann Short, especially if he can hold up in the run game. Sharif Floyd could be a terrific penetrating DT complement to Wilfork and Kyle Love. Sylvester Williams has potential, and . Louis Nix could be a beast if he comes out.

- Interior OL: Jonathan Cooper looks like a fluid, athletic interior lineman. Barrett Jones is Mr. Versatility. Chance Warmack is a big guard but surprisingly quick on his feet. Larry Warford is a road grader but a beast. Khaled Holmes is a veteran signal caller and undervalued right now.

- LDE: Ziggy Ansah is raw but has freakish athletic potential. Tank Carradine is Chander Jones-esque. Margus Hunt is getting overlooked, but is also an athletic freak. No one wants Devin Taylor or William Gholston anymore, and both have tremendous athletic ability if they ever get their act together, and either could be a sleeper bargain as a pro - or a total bust.

Among many, many others. And that's just for those 3 positions, not to mention WR, DB and others.

 

[manxman2601]

Better than DeCastro?

There's plenty of evidence that people think both Warmack and Cooper are better than Decastro. Scout rank both higher than Decastro, Tony Pauline has said that scouts think both are better prospects and I saw Cooper referred to as the most athletic guard he's ever scouted (can't remember by whom).

 

[manxman2601]

He's still high on my list. Mackenzie think's Carradine is closer to 6'3" than 6'5" and that could be a factor for me. I'd like my LDE to be bigger - more like 6'5" 270# or bigger. Carradine doesn't have Ansah's speed, pursuit, or fluidity, but he's a beast and he is very "Jones-esque", as you put it.

There's a lot of interesting prospects out there, and it's too early to get too locked in:

- DT: Lotulellei and Hankins are out of reach. Jonathan Jenkins has been gathering steam, though Mackenzie thinks he's a slug. Jesse Williams has been my sleeper binky, but I'm not averse to Kawann Short, especially if he can hold up in the run game. Sharif Floyd could be a terrific penetrating DT complement to Wilfork and Kyle Love. Sylvester Williams has potential, and . Louis Nix could be a beast if he comes out.

- Interior OL: Jonathan Cooper looks like a fluid, athletic interior lineman. Barrett Jones is Mr. Versatility. Chance Warmack is a big guard but surprisingly quick on his feet. Larry Warford is a road grader but a beast. Khaled Holmes is a veteran signal caller and undervalued right now.

- LDE: Ziggy Ansah is raw but has freakish athletic potential. Tank Carradine is Chander Jones-esque. Margus Hunt is getting overlooked, but is also an athletic freak. No one wants Devin Taylor or William Gholston anymore, and both have tremendous athletic ability if they ever get their act together, and either could be a sleeper bargain as a pro - or a total bust.

Among many, many others. And that's just for those 3 positions, not to mention WR, DB and others.

I'm not locked in - I have four equal favourites right now and I can see someone like Robert Woods, David Amerson also being in range and they intrigue me too. Then there's the "I wouldn't be disappointed" picks like Dion Jordan and Jesse Williams as well. So there's plenty of options but there's four that "I want" at the moment.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

He's still high on my list. Mackenzie think's Carradine is closer to 6'3" than 6'5" and that could be a factor for me. I'd like my LDE to be bigger - more like 6'5" 270# or bigger. Carradine doesn't have Ansah's speed, pursuit, or fluidity, but he's a beast and he is very "Jones-esque", as you put it.

There's a lot of interesting prospects out there, and it's too early to get too locked in:

- DT: Lotulellei and Hankins are out of reach. Jonathan Jenkins has been gathering steam, though Mackenzie thinks he's a slug. Jesse Williams has been my sleeper binky, but I'm not averse to Kawann Short, especially if he can hold up in the run game. Sharif Floyd could be a terrific penetrating DT complement to Wilfork and Kyle Love. Sylvester Williams has potential, and . Louis Nix could be a beast if he comes out.

- Interior OL: Jonathan Cooper looks like a fluid, athletic interior lineman. Barrett Jones is Mr. Versatility. Chance Warmack is a big guard but surprisingly quick on his feet. Larry Warford is a road grader but a beast. Khaled Holmes is a veteran signal caller and undervalued right now.

- LDE: Ziggy Ansah is raw but has freakish athletic potential. Tank Carradine is Chander Jones-esque. Margus Hunt is getting overlooked, but is also an athletic freak. No one wants Devin Taylor or William Gholston anymore, and both have tremendous athletic ability if they ever get their act together, and either could be a sleeper bargain as a pro - or a total bust.

Among many, many others. And that's just for those 3 positions, not to mention WR, DB and others.

Mayo it seem like you haven't mentioned Jordan it weeks. Is he falling out of favor?

Carradine looks about 6'4" to me. He looks taller than Werner.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not locked in - I have four equal favourites right now and I can see someone like Robert Woods, David Amerson also being in range and they intrigue me too. Then there's the "I wouldn't be disappointed" picks like Dion Jordan and Jesse Williams as well. So there's plenty of options but there's four that "I want" at the moment.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that you were. Your favorites look as good as any right now, but it's still early. There's almost 6 full months till the draft, and a lot will change.

My personal plan for the Pats regarding your favorites:

- Bribe some Utah cops to get Ziggy Ansah into a fight the week before the draft
- Mail some weed to Jonathan Cooper right after his pro day workout
- Start an anonymous twitter campaign hinting at further character issues for Da'Rick Rogers
- Float an anonymous report that Terrance Williams scored a 4 on his Wonderlick

That's a start.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I certainly wasn't suggesting that you were. Your favorites look as good as any right now, but it's still early. There's almost 6 full months till the draft, and a lot will change.

My personal plan for the Pats regarding your favorites:

- Bribe some Utah cops to get Ziggy Ansah into a fight the week before the draft
- Mail some weed to Jonathan Cooper right after his pro day workout
- Start an anonymous twitter campaign hinting at further character issues for Da'Rick Rogers
- Float an anonymous report that Terrance Williams scored a 4 on his Wonderlick

That's a start.

- Pump trace amounts of weed smoke into Dion Jordan's apartment

 

[MrNathanDrake]

i was just thinking.... its pretty sad that after all these wasted draft picks, we still need to draft another DB this year


1st Brandon Meriweather
2nd Terrenace Wheatley
4th Jonathan Wilhite
2nd Ras Dowling
2nd Darius Butler
2nd Patrick Chung

 

[mackenzie45220]

Something that I do want to mention about Devin Taylor:

How many guys are 267lbs and look like this?





That's one of the most wiry frames I have ever seen. He has room for a ton of bulk. And his wiry frame I believe is much of the reason he has underachieved to this point in his career

 

[mayoclinic]

Mayo it seem like you haven't mentioned Jordan it weeks. Is he falling out of favor?

No, just the opposite. He's fallen "into" favor to the point where he's getting hyped as a likely 1st round pick. For example, Rob Rang now has Dion Jordan at #21 on his big board, ahead of Bjoern Werner. That's not surprising to you or me, as we both had Jordan pegged as a 1st round talent months ago. But I think it's less likely that the Pats go after someone like Jordan that high in the draft, so I've backed off mocking him for now. But I'm absolutely no less high on him as a prospect.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

i don't think we draft another DE for the simple fact that belichick looooves ninkovich

 

[ATippett56]

New England Patriots cornerbacks currently on the 53 man active roster:

Devin McCourty
Alfonzo Dennard
Kyle Arrington
Marquice Cole
Derrick Martin

Hemmmmmm! ..... Cornerbacks ..... 2013 NFL Draft

Yeah! That's the ticket!

 

[ATippett56]

i don't think we draft another DE for the simple fact that belichick looooves ninkovich

Belichick also has two pet projects at the defensive end position:

Justin Francis
Jake Bequette

to go along with Jermaine Cunningham.

 

[ATippett56]

i don't think we draft another DE for the simple fact that belichick looooves ninkovich

The New England Patriots defense needs an interior pass rush presence even more than an outside one.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Something that I do want to mention about Devin Taylor:

How many guys are 267lbs and look like this?





That's one of the most wiry frames I have ever seen. He has room for a ton of bulk. And his wiry frame I believe is much of the reason he has underachieved to this point in his career

If someone is wiry why would you expect them to suddenly develop the ability to be thick and bulky? Even if he manages to put on more muscle in the offseason it's very doubtful that he'll be able to retain that over the course of the season.

 

[nekromantique]

yeah...some people are just built that way. you can work at it all you want and never actually retain weight/size.

 

[mackenzie45220]

If someone is wiry why would you expect them to suddenly develop the ability to be thick and bulky? Even if he manages to put on more muscle in the offseason it's very doubtful that he'll be able to retain that over the course of the season.

First of all, he's been adding weight since his freshman year, when he was 215lbs. Secondly, muscle is denser than fat. The fact that he is so wiry means that he has an incredibly muscular frame, with virtually no body fat. An athlete needs a little bit of body fat just so they can absorb contact and have good balance. A little bit of body fat (he has none) is easily retained. He can add 20-30lbs no problem. He has enough room on his frame.