Mallett vs Hoyer - No Clear Winner Monday Night

[manxman2601]

Have to say that I was very impressed by Mallett last night, more so than by Hoyer. I thought Mallett looked like an NFL QB out there. Although I didn't watch the first PS game, the knock on Mallett apparently was that he lacked the ability to make good touch passes. If that's the case, then there was a definite improvement.

Rightly, Nick Foles got a lot of credit for last nights play. He had McCoy in the backfield, Maclin and Jackson as receivers and a first team OL. Mallett wasn't that much worse than Foles (if at all). So if Mallett had Lloyd, Gronk etc, how much better might he have looked last night.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't necessarily disagree with you on that point. As I've said I wasn't impressed with either overall last night, and I do have some doubts about Mallett long-term, but that doesn't mean I believe Hoyer would necessarily be the answer either.

Elite's a big word and would put him in the category of Brady, Manning, Rodgers...and he's obviously not there yet. Until he puts together a better string of games it's tough to believe otherwise. After all, we all thought Cassell was going to become better than he's been and it still hasn't happened. I hope it does, but so far it hasn't worked out that way.

fair enough.......but it goes back to just not seeing the possibility of 'elite' ever being used to describe hoyer. thing is that rodgers took time, but had the makeup all along. I see the same with mallett. he has elements that can't be taught. they may never be realized, but the the deck is certainly not stacked against him.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Someone put together a great compilation video of every play from Mallett last night. When you see it in this light, you can actually see that he was a little better than my impression watching it live last night, especially given the protection breakdowns in some of these plays:

Ryan Mallett vs Eagles PS Game 2 - YouTube

More bad than good on that clip and it missed him hitting the CB square in the back.

He got a little more of the screen game and Vereen and Edleman to work with. Hoyer didn't get Edleman at all if I recall and a lot more Ebert whom he seemed to be having trouble getting on the same page with (probably because Ebert isn't on the page yet). His worst mistakes were negated by really dumb penalties. Otherwise he has a typically rough outing.

 

[IllegalContact]

IF IF Mallett wins the #2 this year Hoyer won't have any value in trade and they'd cut him like KOC to save $1.9M against the cap knowing they could probably reel him back in in an emergency like Gutz because no one would be scrambling to pick him up.

Whereas, IF IF Mallett doesn't win the #2 this year, and he's behind in practice as were Cassel's challengers whether it shows in stilted pre season games or not, they will probably keep him since if Brady went down they'd need a backup to the replacement who had some familiarity with the system and he's still under contract cheaply for 3 more years with some remaining potential upside.

After an equally disjointed college career Foles was the rookie #3 QB behink Vick and Kafka and he's gotten fewer reps and was less highly touted though just as tall as Mallett yet as a rookie he stepped in COLD and opened eyes.

If Bill feels Hoyer is a more competent #2 again this season, there is no way he is trading him. If he doesn't, he probably gets cut. Mallett would have to be at least as competent for that to happen, and most folks just don't see it.

you put way too much stock into the notion of which one is #2.....there is no #2....they are both here for the year.......trade value is inconsequential in the face of trying to field the best team (they're not getting much for either anyway).......the way I see it working over the course of the season should brady go down, hoyer will step in and finish the game, but if brady is out the following week, mallett will start.

 

[IllegalContact]

More bad than good on that clip and it missed him hitting the CB square in the back.

only if you see what you WANT to see

 

[MoLewisrocks]

fair enough.......but it goes back to just not seeing the possibility of 'elite' ever being used to describe hoyer. thing is that rodgers took time, but had the makeup all along. I see the same with mallett. he has elements that can't be taught. they may never be realized, but the the deck is certainly not stacked against him.

You'd be amazed how few people saw the possibility of 'elite' ever being used to describe Brady even after the first ring. Big arm (measurables talent) and elite aren't syonymous. And many of Brady's intangibles can't be taught, either, and while some can be developed over time others can't be unlearned (players regress to their norm under pressure). Vick would be a good example of that. He acknowledges what he has to do and then he does what he always did. Tebow has the same problem. As does Sanchez. As does Romo. As did Bledsoe. Aside from Sanchez, they all have elements (talents) that can't be taught.

 

[patsfan13]

After an equally disjointed college career Foles was the rookie #3 QB behink Vick and Kafka and he's gotten fewer reps and was less highly touted though just as tall as Mallett yet as a rookie he stepped in COLD and opened eyes.

Foles was working with the number 1's against the Pats backups. Philly game planned to play the Pats.

Mallett was playing with the #2, with 1 OL in the correct position against a Philly team that game planned for that game.

IOW apples and oranges.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

only if you see what you WANT to see

Or refuse to see what you don't want to see.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Foles was working with the number 1's against the Pats backups. Philly game planned to play the Pats.

Mallett was playing with the #2, with 1 OL in the correct position against a Philly team that game planned for that game.

IOW apples and oranges.

Mallett was working with the guys he's been working with since OTA's. And he's known since Friday he was going to be starting and splitting reps with Hoyer. Foles is a rookie and he was working with starters and an offense he has little experience with and he came in cold. And he wasn't the beneficiary of multiple drive saving and extending penalties. Although he was the beneficiary of two turnovers. Philly has OL issues too. That was their 3rd string LT starting.

 

[IllegalContact]

You'd be amazed how few people saw the possibility of 'elite' ever being used to describe Brady even after the first ring. Big arm (measurables talent) and elite aren't syonymous. And many of Brady's intangibles can't be taught, either, and while some can be developed over time others can't be unlearned (players regress to their norm under pressure). Vick would be a good example of that. He acknowledges what he has to do and then he does what he always did. Tebow has the same problem. As does Sanchez. As does Romo. As did Bledsoe. Aside from Sanchez, they all have elements (talents) that can't be taught.

yup.....and yet you make the assumption that hoyer may have some of these immeasurable even though he obviously does not (regardless of your observation that he didn't have edelman)

just because he has a big arm does not mean he does not have the immeasurables. at this point, his career has not been any different than brady's.....there were no hints of brady's impending stardom during the preseason of 2001.

all things told, mallett is not there, but hoyer has been around long enough where he should not have looked as uncomfortable as he did. he looked like crap outside of one pass to branch.

you should admit that you simply don't like mallett.....not sure what he ever did to you, but your commentary sounds like you just don't like him, and that's ok.....but you should display the same degree of criticality toward hoyer. otherwise, you just sound biased

 

[IllegalContact]

Or refuse to see what you don't want to see.

maybe......but your logic is weak

 

[IllegalContact]

Mallett was working with the guys he's been working with since OTA's. And he's known since Friday he was going to be starting and splitting reps with Hoyer. Foles is a rookie and he was working with starters and an offense he has little experience with and he came in cold. And he wasn't the beneficiary of multiple drive saving and extending penalties. Although he was the beneficiary of two turnovers. Philly has OL issues too. That was their 3rd string LT starting.

naahhhhhh.......hoyer pretty much sucked......

this conspiracy theory that he didn't have the right players is bogus.

 

[Deus Irae]

Mallett had a good night under the circumstances, 1 bad decision in 36 plays is pretty good.

We need to remember that the Eagles in addition to playing their starters (which we didn't) had 1 OL starter in the position he will play this year. The Eagles also game planned for this game we did not. That makes a huge difference for the QB. Both QB's in this case.

Mallett has only had this TC + this season's OTA's.

Not saying he is Brady but how many reps did Brady have at this point in his second season, 12 years ago? How many practices? Many more than Mallett.

Mallett is progressing nicely IMO.

It was more than one bad decision. Hell, the ball that was picked came a bit after a near pick on the same type of play.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

It was more than one bad decision. Hell, the ball that was picked came a bit after a near pick on the same type of play.

He also drilled a defender in the back.
As someone disappointed in The 2011 Hammer I was pleased to see improvement Monday but he was nowhere near the "one bad decision" mantra the fanbois here tout.

Anyone who thinks Mallett showed last night that he could be the #2 this fall is delusional. I'm eager to see how he handles himself the next 2 games, hopefully without the clusterfrak at OL.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Cousins, Keep this in mind. Brady still gets the majority of reps in practice with the first teamers. If you look at what Mallet did against a first string Eagles Defense it was very respectable.

This was a "trust test" for me. As I watched and saw the game unfold, I as an interested football fan felt more comfortable with Mallet at the helm. I felt like he could make a play. I did not feel that with Hoyer. His passes looked weak. His "game clock" in the head is not as good as Mallet. Mallet is more prone to mistakes and has a more than slight accuracy issue but this is Camp #1 for him and 2012 actually should be his Rookie year.

Better line play improves both QB's. Toward the second half Folkes got better protection (third stringers). He got into a rhythm. Neither Mallet nor Hoyer ever got there. Solder and Cannon need more reps. Experience is what made Light a great NFL player....not the best OT ever, but upper echelon. These two kids are just that.....kids. This is actually camp #1 for them. It's reps and hard work. I thought Solder did...o.k. and better than game one....But in fact if you see what the Eagles DL are saying about Cannon and Solder, they actually had more positives about Cannon. The first string Eagles line did not glow against mostly the Pats second string Defense in the beginning either. Ask Vick. Another thought on Solder is that he is switching from RT to LT and his foot work is opposite. It takes time.

A better day running the ball would help. The YPC averages sucked, but for every 8 yard gain someone would blow an OL assignment and they would lose 5 yards. I think they had like six runs for losses.

In spite some other posters, I think that Mallet is the future. When Brady is winding done he will be what?...27? How old is Weedon this year? He is smart enough. His Wunderlick was as good or bettter than some of the best NFL QB's. He needs more years and Reps. Tough to say if he will even be a mild Bledsoe version but I have more faith in him to win a game and Hoyer more to just manage one.
DW Toys

DWT,

Excellent and well thought out post. There is way too much concern over Solder, he will be fine.

I think there were very encouraging things from the Eagles game, with the circumstances that Bill Belichick, (purposely), set up to sort out and test his backup QBs.

If y'all recall, I was one of the few lone voices crying in the wilderness when all were calling to cut Matt Cassel, that POS, in TC and keep Gutirrez... I merely said that Bill was setting up the conditions to test POISE, as well as QB play. Bill knows that 90% of QB play takes place between the QBs ears.

He purposely gave Casell sub O-linemen, and sub receivers and had them go against the opposition's First Stringers, with Cassell JUST LIKE he did with Mallett and Hoyer, last night. BB fully expected a poor outing, given the circumstances; but what Bill was looking for, was how the QB handled the adversity.

Matt Cassel maintained his POISE, didn't panic, even as he looked terrible. As scrub WRs didn't get open, dropped receptions, ran wrong routes, at wrong depths, and arrived at the right place, at the wrong time. Even as the oppostion's First String pass rushers were in his face and sacking him.

BB did the same to Mallett and Hoyer. Cassell passed a test with BB. Last night, Mallet maintained his POISE, but Hoyer got exasperated at the mistakes happening around him and showed it, losing a little POISE while doing so.

So I thought Mallett passed with a good POISE grade, and Hoyer merely did so so.

All in all, I thought one of the best things that Mallett did was shuffle out of the pocket with pressure from Cannon's man, move to his left, set up to throw, and then gathered the ball in, and "accepted" the sack.

Great judgement, good POISE. It turned out the refs threw a flag for illegal contact in the secondary and the sack was wiped out. BTW, the guy who finally sacked him was Solder's man who Solder had handled well for 8+ seconds, pushing him way outside (and into the area that Mallett had retreated.)

All in all Mallett showed me with another year or two of TC seasoning, he probably will be ready to start. At the least, I think BB has found another Matt Cassel starter level player in Mallett.

Hoyer is ready now. How good he can become is the question. He needs a good cast around him for sure, though.

 

[Off The Grid]

I never said Bledsoe was a bad quarterback, just that Mallett's decision making skills remind me of Drew's.

I think we could all safely say that this is one area where Brady just absolutely blows Drew away.

Yeah. That, and, um...being a QuarterBack!!

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

It was more than one bad decision. Hell, the ball that was picked came a bit after a near pick on the same type of play.

Here is the ultimate, most accurate way to determine Mallett's performance.

When the biggest clown at patsfans.com thinks Mallett was awful......it's time to get the bust ready for Canton.

The one thing that is interesting is the critique of Mallett's decision making process.

Monday night was not exactly a target rich environment when it comes to "good decision making".

Based on these circumstances, anyone who thinks that can make decisions on Mallett's decision making has no real business making decisions.

 

[IcyPatriot]

From a quick observation one thing that sticks out if Mallett can make more of the throws than Hoyer. I know there's so much more than that but isn't one of the barometers the time it takes to complete a sideline pass. Mallett has superior skills in that department over Hoyer. Actually one of the reasons Brady is so great ... his time to complete those has been phenomenal over his career.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

From a quick observation one thing that sticks out if Mallett can make more of the throws than Hoyer. I know there's so much more than that but isn't one of the barometers the time it takes to complete a sideline pass. Mallett has superior skills in that department over Hoyer. Actually one of the reasons Brady is so great ... his time to complete those has been phenomenal over his career.

The Hammer has a nail gun arm. The concerns are (1) fast, good decision making and (2) occasional slow release. They may be related. They may improve with experience. Monday showed that he's not cowed by pressure. We need to see him with average or better protection to see how he processes the field. Even against backups, lots can be learned by dissecting each throw. Does he lock in half the field? I'd do it but I'll be away from my TiVo the next couple games.

 

[Deus Irae]

Zolak (who's now part of the commenting team for the Patriots, and may or may not be as free with his words now) notes that Mallet didn't start the game well, but was impressed with his TD throw and called it, along with his feel for the screen game, a step in the right direction.. He still sees Hoyer as the definite #2 - "Hoyer's way ahead of Mallett at this point".