Patriots claim TE Jake Ballard

[patchick]

I still don't see the point in this. Don't talk about "depth". We already have Hernandez and Gronk. Doubt this guy sees any playing time.

I'll second the . Why on earth shouldn't we talk about depth? Why wouldn't you want more quality players competing for spots?

 

[patfanken]

I understand what you are saying. But I think if teams regarded Ballard as a high 2nd round in 2013 they would have taken the risk.
I think the difference in BB is that he recognizes and acts on the value, even when it isn't elite value.
Nothing Ballard has done really tells me he is high 2nd round value, even 100% healthy. That doesn't mean BB made a smart move and everyone else missed the boat, just that I disagree with the evaluation given for his value, and in my opinion the actions of all 32 teams seem to support that.

EXCUSE ME? But I think most teams in the league would be THRILLED to have drafted a good blocking TE in the 2nd round and have him average 16ypc and have 600 receiving yards. IIRC the Pats and their fans were THRILLED with Gronk's 13ypc and his 550 yds receiving in HIS rookie year as a 2nd round pick. Why then, Andy would it be unreasonable to look at Ballard's first year playing as being "2nd round quality".

Now I'm not saying that Ballard is even close to Gronk as a receiving threat, BUT there is NO doubt he has value, as a blocking TE who happens to have good hands. 2nd round? 3rd round, who cares at this point. I'm almost as surprised by the fact it bothers you enough to be offended by the notion, as I am of myself who bothered to respond.

All I know right now is that Ballard will be a Patriot next year, and if Fells works out and Ballard comes back healthy, its likely the Pats will carry 4 TE's next season....and be all the better for it.

 

[crew1954]

And I, too YOU, Brother Crew, for recognizing and appreciating that!!

WingBack is essentially my term for H-Back, which is an horribly ugly and inadequate term, in my opinion, for such an incredibly dynamic, explosive, and potentially disruptive Position.

And of course, as you allude: WingBack is a term ~ and a Role ~ that goes back about 100 years.

Ah, fond memories of the days of the crack back block and the forearm shiver.

 

[Ring 6]

EXCUSE ME? But I think most teams in the league would be THRILLED to have drafted a good blocking TE in the 2nd round and have him average 16ypc and have 600 receiving yards. IIRC the Pats and their fans were THRILLED with Gronk's 13ypc and his 550 yds receiving in HIS rookie year as a 2nd round pick. Why then, Andy would it be unreasonable to look at Ballard's first year playing as being "2nd round quality".

Now I'm not saying that Ballard is even close to Gronk as a receiving threat, BUT there is NO doubt he has value, as a blocking TE who happens to have good hands. 2nd round? 3rd round, who cares at this point. I'm almost as surprised by the fact it bothers you enough to be offended by the notion, as I am of myself who bothered to respond.

All I know right now is that Ballard will be a Patriot next year, and if Fells works out and Ballard comes back healthy, its likely the Pats will carry 4 TE's next season....and be all the better for it.

You reading between the lines skills need work.
I am not bothered nor offended by the topic. I responded simply because I disagree, and I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that if other teams valued him that highly, at least some of them would have been interested in paying 540k to get him.
You seem to want to insert emotion into my posts that you are creating on your own. I am simply giving my opinion. There should be no hard feelings if we have different opinions on something, or even disagree with the conclusion the facts lead to, even if we feel it is obvious.

 

[BlueThunder]

You reading between the lines skills need work.
I am not bothered nor offended by the topic. I responded simply because I disagree, and I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that if other teams valued him that highly, at least some of them would have been interested in paying 540k to get him.
You seem to want to insert emotion into my posts that you are creating on your own. I am simply giving my opinion. There should be no hard feelings if we have different opinions on something, or even disagree with the conclusion the facts lead to, even if we feel it is obvious.

I wonder how many teams have the luxury of paying that much for someone who won't play this season, and not knowing in the long term if he will be the same fter the surgery?

 

[Ring 6]

I wonder how many teams have the luxury of paying that much for someone who won't play this season, and not knowing in the long term if he will be the same fter the surgery?

I would think that almost all would. I don't think more than a handful of teams will have less than 540k of cap space left. They will all field practice squads.
I don't know why you think the Patriots are unique in being able to carry 540k on the cap. Every team will be paying IR players this year, some way worse than '2nd round value' and some way more expensive than Ballard.

 

[jmt57]

I wonder how many teams have the luxury of paying that much for someone who won't play this season, and not knowing in the long term if he will be the same fter the surgery?

It represents about 0.4% of this year's salary cap allotment.

I know that 'what a waste of money' has been the rallying cry of a lot of Giants fans as to why this is such a bad move, but when you look at what a small percentage of the budget it represents, it is really a very minor investment.

Or look at it this way: had everything gone as planned then the Giants would have re-signed him and paid him more or less the same amount. They would be taking an identical risk, with the lone exception of keeping that all important 90th roster spot during training camp.

 

[mrscruff]

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Patriots have plans for Jake Ballard, who is unlikely to play in 2012

 

[FirstAndGoal]

I wonder how many teams have the luxury of paying that much for someone who won't play this season, and not knowing in the long term if he will be the same fter the surgery?

500k...that's peanuts to the overall cap.

Teams sign vets and cut them after training camp for much more than that all of the time.

 

[BlueThunder]

I would think that almost all would. I don't think more than a handful of teams will have less than 540k of cap space left. They will all field practice squads.
I don't know why you think the Patriots are unique in being able to carry 540k on the cap. Every team will be paying IR players this year, some way worse than '2nd round value' and some way more expensive than Ballard.

Why did 30 other teams pass on him then?

An unwritten rule?

Pats are in very good cap shape as well as having depth at TE that they don't NEED him to play this year. Plus, If BB made a mistake and Ballard sh!ts the bed next year, BB's not in danger of losing his job over it.

Maybe I should have worded my post better. I know that some posters get alot of excersize here jumping to conclusions.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

The key point, which has been said many times in this thread is that the Pats are not like any other franchise. I think its easy to say that its only 500k, or .4% of the overall cap, but you also have to look at this in real world terms as well.

There are countless teams that wouldnt want to deal with the headache of bringing in a player, who will not add any value to the team on his current contract, to have time energy and resources put towards him hopefully become healthy, but still may never recover and play for your team. It may seem like simple use of resources that already exist in-house for the money each team is aloted, but its not that simple.

Another coach might be concerned about an angry Aaron Hernandez fuming in his office that they are paying someone with no current value more than him, while Hernandez plays his heart out each week. You may have an assistant coach like Pepper Johnson who has been here for 12 years not getting a raise(hypothetically), yet a 4th TE is getting paid to do nothing but sit. That is with nothing to be said about morale for lower positions in the organization like equipment managers, masseuse's and chiropractors. A poorly run organization with no internal integrity can constantly face questions from their own people about where dollars are going, or why their person share is so small in comparison to someone who brings nothing at the moment to the current team.

These are questions we have been taught not to worry about, with the Krafts and Belichick running this franchise and team. Belichick never allows salary or perceived value (jersey sales/name recognition) justify keeping or relieving them of their duties. We follow a team where we dont need to worry about our other star TE getting upset by a move like this, simply because, there is no room on this team for behaviour or attitude like that. But it happens elsewhere, we have just been spoiled with a lack of spoiled kids.

Thats the difference. Its not about a 4th TE. Its not about if he will be healthy. Its not about other players contracts. Its simply about the team not allowing a valuable future resource to get away because they are afraid of how it will effect other players, or other teams opinions. Its not about one player, its not about any other team. Its about one team, and making the best one possible.

I am not sure what surprises me more, that 30 teams didnt think that risk was worth it, or that the defending champions thought 31 thought that way.

 

[Deus Irae]

The key point, which has been said many times in this thread is that the Pats are not like any other franchise. I think its easy to say that its only 500k, or .4% of the overall cap, but you also have to look at this in real world terms as well.

There are countless teams that wouldnt want to deal with the headache of bringing in a player, who will not add any value to the team on his current contract, to have time energy and resources put towards him hopefully become healthy, but still may never recover and play for your team. It may seem like simple use of resources that already exist in-house for the money each team is aloted, but its not that simple.

Another coach might be concerned about an angry Aaron Hernandez fuming in his office that they are paying someone with no current value more than him, while Hernandez plays his heart out each week. You may have an assistant coach like Pepper Johnson who has been here for 12 years not getting a raise(hypothetically), yet a 4th TE is getting paid to do nothing but sit. That is with nothing to be said about morale for lower positions in the organization like equipment managers, masseuse's and chiropractors. A poorly run organization with no internal integrity can constantly face questions from their own people about where dollars are going, or why their person share is so small in comparison to someone who brings nothing at the moment to the current team.

These are questions we have been taught not to worry about, with the Krafts and Belichick running this franchise and team. Belichick never allows salary or perceived value (jersey sales/name recognition) justify keeping or relieving them of their duties. We follow a team where we dont need to worry about our other star TE getting upset by a move like this, simply because, there is no room on this team for behaviour or attitude like that. But it happens elsewhere, we have just been spoiled with a lack of spoiled kids.

Thats the difference. Its not about a 4th TE. Its not about if he will be healthy. Its not about other players contracts. Its simply about the team not allowing a valuable future resource to get away because they are afraid of how it will effect other players, or other teams opinions. Its not about one player, its not about any other team. Its about one team, and making the best one possible.

I am not sure what surprises me more, that 30 teams didnt think that risk was worth it, or that the defending champions thought 31 thought that way.

30 teams decided that it wasn't worth it to claim a player who was slow-footed to start with, and is coming off of ACL and microfracture surgery, and to pay him more than half a million dollars for him to do rehab on the off chance that he'll one day be able to play at a level that justifies the move.

Why would that surprise you?

 

[Ring 6]

Why did 30 other teams pass on him then?

For the reason I have been stating all along. They did not see the value in the player.

An unwritten rule?

Pats are in very good cap shape as well as having depth at TE that they don't NEED him to play this year. Plus, If BB made a mistake and Ballard sh!ts the bed next year, BB's not in danger of losing his job over it.

Many teams are in good cap shape. Are you seriously suggesting that a coach would get fired for stashing a guy who is the value of a high 2nd round pick next year on IR if he doesn't recover(that is the premise of the discussion, that he is as good as a high 2nd round pick mext year) ? That is more bizarre than thinking he is worth that much even after no one else claimed.

Maybe I should have worded my post better. I know that some posters get alot of excersize here jumping to conclusions.

I am referring to the post that said we got a guy who has the value of a high second rounder next year.
Your counter argument was that teams couldn't spare 540k on the cap.
Can you seriously imagine a team seeing the player on waivers, believing he has the value of a high second round pick next year, and deciding to pass because you would have to pay him this year?
Try it another way. If the Vikings offered to sell next years 2nd round pick for 540k how many of the 31 teams do you think would take that deal?

 

[BlueThunder]

I posted an opinion, you don't agree....

30 teams didn't see the value....BB did...

I'll go with BB's evaluation.



nuf said

 

[treeclimber]

ballard is alumi of THE ohio state university

i bet mike vrabel and urban meyers called up bill and said take this guy!!!

 

[Ring 6]

I posted an opinion, you don't agree....

30 teams didn't see the value....BB did...

I'll go with BB's evaluation.



nuf said

Where did BB agree that Ballard has the value of a high 2nd rounder next year?

Are you really trying to argue that 31 teams did not want him, BB did, and that represents proof that whatever you want to value the player at is therefore true?

If the argument were he is now considered a first ballott HOFer, you could have written the exact same post.

I like the move. That isn't what the discussion was about. So 'going with BBs evaluation is totally and entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Ring 6]

ballard is alumi of THE ohio state university

i bet mike vrabel and urban meyers called up bill and said take this guy!!!

Doubtful, since Ballard left OSU before either arrived to coach.

 

[treeclimber]

Doubtful, since Ballard left OSU before either arrived to coach.

yeah but they might know him from attending games cause they both went to osu too so they are around the program. plus bills daughter is at osu or mikes so they might have known jake from being scholar atheletes. :rocker::rocker:

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Meyer attended the University of Cincinnati and Belichick's daughter has only been coaching lacrosse at OSU since August 2010, 4 months after Ballard's draft class. Vrabel's kids are in grammar school. More research less ink, troll.

 

[BlueThunder]

Where did BB agree that Ballard has the value of a high 2nd rounder next year?

He picked him up off waivers for the contract value of a second round pick.

Are you really trying to argue that 31 teams did not want him, BB did, and that represents proof that whatever you want to value the player at is therefore true?

BB paid him, I didn't. Take it up with him

If the argument were he is now considered a first ballott HOFer, you could have written the exact same post.

???? Project much?

I like the move. That isn't what the discussion was about. So 'going with BBs evaluation is totally and entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

You talk in circles son.