Patriots claim TE Jake Ballard

[Off The Grid]

Overheard in the Giants hallways, earlier this week...

"Coach Coughlin, what do you think the odds are that one of the bottom 30 teams will snatch Ballard up off'f Waivers?"

"He just tore'is ACL, my friend. One chance in an Hundred."

"And what chance do you think there is that the Patriots pick'm up?"

"What're you, high?? The Patriots have the greatest Flex End in the history of this Galaxy wrapped up for the next 8 freaking years, genius. They have a guy who will shortly be considered the best Wing Back in the Game, as well, and will probably have him for his entire Prime. On top of that, they've got exceptional depth at both positions in Daniel Fells and Bo Scaife, respectively...In short: They command greater Depth of Talent at Tight End than anyone in the long and lustrous History of this Great Game...

I'd call it a Billion to One."

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry, but your condescension is no substitute for accuracy.

Sorry, but you don't know what Mad Bill was thinking, much though you clearly enjoy fantasizing otherwise.

Sorry, but making a mistake does not make a team "clueless."

It just means that they lack Mad Bill's deadly combination of Testicular Fortitude and Vision.

It wasn't condescending at all.
I was simply pointing out that a player with the value of a 2013 2nd round pick wouldn't pass through 31 teams.
I don't dispute he's a decent player and a nice move, but high 2nd round value seems a big overestimation.
BTW, I said nothing about what BB was thinking, what the Giants thinking was, just that the value you perceive doesn't appear to match the facts.

Unless disagreement is condescention, you should not find that offensive.

 

[crew1954]

Overheard in the Giants hallways, earlier this week...

"Coach Coughlin, what do you think the odds are that one of the bottom 30 teams will snatch Ballard up off'f Waivers?"

"He just tore'is ACL, my friend. One chance in an Hundred."

"And what chance do you think there is that the Patriots pick'm up?"

"What're you, high?? The Patriots have the greatest Flex End in the history of this Galaxy wrapped up for the next 8 freaking years, genius. They have a guy who will shortly be considered the best Wing Back in the Game, as well, and will probably have him for his entire Prime. On top of that, they've got exceptional depth at both positions in Daniel Fells and Bo Scaife, respectively...In short: They command greater Depth of Talent at Tight End than anyone in the long and lustrous History of this Great Game...

I'd call it a Billion to One."

Wingback, wow. I will always be in your debt for bringing my old position back into vogue

 

[shmessy]

It wasn't condescending at all.
I was simply pointing out that a player with the value of a 2013 2nd round pick wouldn't pass through 31 teams.
I don't dispute he's a decent player and a nice move, but high 2nd round value seems a big overestimation.
BTW, I said nothing about what BB was thinking, what the Giants thinking was, just that the value you perceive doesn't appear to match the facts.

Unless disagreement is condescention, you should not find that offensive.

Andy, where you are completely off here is that this isn't an example of a talent observation. The fact that he made it past 30 teams does not reflect at all on Ballard's value. It reflects only on the timeframe mindset of today's NFL front office (save but one team).

It is an example of the only franchise in today's NFL that plans far enough in advance to take a player who can't play this season. The other teams were not making a value judgement on Ballard the player. They were merely stuck in the "gotta win today" mode and decided that they couldn't afford the luxury of patience. The Patriots operate in a different dimension. This is almost like the Canon pick last draft. Other teams don't operate in the same dimension.

Whether or not he is a 2013 2nd round pick value is immaterial subject to his rehab.

The Patriots decided it was worth $540,000 to have him in the barn as a possibility for 2013.

Simple as that.

 

[Off The Grid]

It wasn't condescending at all.

Of course it was!!

When you preface something with :snob: "Sorry" :snob: and then follow it ~ as you did ~ with a proclamation ~ not an opinion, mind you: a :snob: Pompous Proclamation!! :snob: ~ it is universally understood to be condescending.

If that was not your intent, then I respectfully suggest you employ a different means of conveying your thoughts in the future...though you must forgive me if I am ~ based on your history ~ a SMIDGE skeptical!!

 

[Triumph]

Sorry, but your condescension is no substitute for accuracy.

Sorry, but you don't know what Mad Bill was thinking, much though you clearly enjoy fantasizing otherwise.

Sorry, but making a mistake does not make a team "clueless."

It just means that they lack Mad Bill's deadly combination of Testicular Fortitude and Vision.

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Off The Grid]

Overheard in the Giants hallways, earlier this week...

"Coach Coughlin, what do you think the odds are that one of the bottom 30 teams will snatch Ballard up off'f Waivers?"

"He just tore'is ACL, my friend. One chance in an Hundred."

"And what chance do you think there is that the Patriots pick'm up?"

"What're you, high?? The Patriots have the greatest Flex End in the history of this Galaxy wrapped up for the next 8 freaking years, genius. They have a guy who will shortly be considered the best Wing Back in the Game, as well, and will probably have him for his entire Prime. On top of that, they've got exceptional depth at both positions in Daniel Fells and Bo Scaife, respectively...In short: They command greater Depth of Talent at Tight End than anyone in the long and lustrous History of this Great Game...

I'd call it a Billion to One."

Wingback, wow. I will always be in your debt for bringing my old position back into vogue

And I, too YOU, Brother Crew, for recognizing and appreciating that!!

WingBack is essentially my term for H-Back, which is an horribly ugly and inadequate term, in my opinion, for such an incredibly dynamic, explosive, and potentially disruptive Position.

And of course, as you allude: WingBack is a term ~ and a Role ~ that goes back about 100 years.

 

[mayoclinic]

Sorry, but either you are overestimating Ballard of 31 other teams are clueless.
If Ballard's value were equal to an early 2013 2nd, every team would have claimed him, and the Giants would have protected him.
We were the only team in the NFL that thought his value was 540k of payroll. The other 31 chose to not have him if they had to pay him that amount to wait until 2013.

Andy, where you are completely off here is that this isn't an example of a talent observation. The fact that he made it past 30 teams does not reflect at all on Ballard's value. It reflects only on the timeframe mindset of today's NFL front office (save but one team).

It is an example of the only franchise in today's NFL that plans far enough in advance to take a player who can't play this season. The other teams were not making a value judgement on Ballard the player. They were merely stuck in the "gotta win today" mode and decided that they couldn't afford the luxury of patience. The Patriots operate in a different dimension. This is almost like the Canon pick last draft. Other teams don't operate in the same dimension.

Whether or not he is a 2013 2nd round pick value is immaterial subject to his rehab.

The Patriots decided it was worth $540,000 to have him in the barn as a possibility for 2013.

Simple as that.

It's hard to calculate what Ballard's "value" would be. OTG's early 2nd round estimation may be influenced by his enthusiasm to some degree. But Shmessy makes a good point - Ballard's injury and cost were a major factor in 30 teams passing on him, and don't reflect where he would be valued if healthy.

There's no clear way to determine Ballard's value. But one might consider what it would cost to get a comparable player in the draft. Ballard is only 24 and has a proven track record of success in the NFL. He has great size, is a terrific blocker, and an above average receiver. I think most teams in the NFL would gladly have taken a healthy Ballard over someone like Dwayne Allen from Clemson, who Indy took with the 64th pick. Kyle Rudolph, who was drafted at #43 in 2011, didn't produce at Ballard's level. Even Gronk as a rookie didn't outproduce Ballard by that much (slightly less receiving yardage on slightly more catches, but significantly more TDs). We don't know how Ballard would have continued to develop had he not been injured, but I doubt the Giants would have traded a healthy Ballard for a 2nd round pick.

 

[mayoclinic]

Gary Myers from the NY Daily News discusses the Ballard move:

Signing Jake Ballard away from NY Giants shows Patriots coach Bill Belichick is Blue with envy - NY Daily News

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There were reportedly several teams who gave serious thought to placing a waiver claim and then for whatever reason simply failed to proceed to. That said, Ballard was available in 2010 and went undrafted. He was available throughout 2010 on the Giants PS and no one signed him off it. He had a breakout season in 2011 before suffering a partially torn PCL followed in the SB by a torn ACL and apparent microfracture surgery. Until he completes his rehab and gets back on a field no one will know what value if any he has. But whatever that may be it belongs to the NEP at this point for the price of a roster spot thru cutdowns and $540K in salary. Speed and agility weren't his game, and likely won't be any moreso coming off this injury. What he does represent is tremendous value as potential depth insurance beyond this season when we don't appear to be in great need of such. He won't likely have much if any trade value prior to 2014. Although if all goes well his value on this roster by then could exceed any trade value.

 

[Frezo]

Gary Myers from the NY Daily News discusses the Ballard move:

Signing Jake Ballard away from NY Giants shows Patriots coach Bill Belichick is Blue with envy - NY Daily News

Quote:
From a medical standpoint, Ballard would have been better off staying with the Giants because their staff is familiar with his injury and has been working with him.

This is just dumb. ACL surgery has advanced beyond that statement. Recovery has become almost commonplace with a very high success rate. I'm confident the Pat's medical staff can figure this out. The question that should concern the Giants media and fans is can they find another 6'6" 275 lb TE that can block and has good hands.

 

[Ring 6]

Of course it was!!

When you preface something with :snob: "Sorry" :snob: and then follow it ~ as you did ~ with a proclamation ~ not an opinion, mind you: a :snob: Pompous Proclamation!! :snob: ~ it is universally understood to be condescending.

If that was not your intent, then I respectfully suggest you employ a different means of conveying your thoughts in the future...though you must forgive me if I am ~ based on your history ~ a SMIDGE skeptical!!

Perhaps, it came off that way, but I can assure you it wasn't intended that way.
"Sorry" meant, sorry but I see it differently, not sorry let me educate you.
What followed was absolutely opinion. I don't know how my interpretation of something could be considered proclamation. I thought it was pretty clearly my opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, where you are completely off here is that this isn't an example of a talent observation. The fact that he made it past 30 teams does not reflect at all on Ballard's value. It reflects only on the timeframe mindset of today's NFL front office (save but one team).

It is an example of the only franchise in today's NFL that plans far enough in advance to take a player who can't play this season. The other teams were not making a value judgement on Ballard the player. They were merely stuck in the "gotta win today" mode and decided that they couldn't afford the luxury of patience. The Patriots operate in a different dimension. This is almost like the Canon pick last draft. Other teams don't operate in the same dimension.

Whether or not he is a 2013 2nd round pick value is immaterial subject to his rehab.

The Patriots decided it was worth $540,000 to have him in the barn as a possibility for 2013.

Simple as that.

I understand what you are saying. But I think if teams regarded Ballard as a high 2nd round in 2013 they would have taken the risk.
I think the difference in BB is that he recognizes and acts on the value, even when it isn't elite value.
Nothing Ballard has done really tells me he is high 2nd round value, even 100% healthy. That doesn't mean BB made a smart move and everyone else missed the boat, just that I disagree with the evaluation given for his value, and in my opinion the actions of all 32 teams seem to support that.

 

[patchick]

Quote:
From a medical standpoint, Ballard would have been better off staying with the Giants because their staff is familiar with his injury and has been working with him.

This is just dumb. ACL surgery has advanced beyond that statement. Recovery has become almost commonplace with a very high success rate. I'm confident the Pat's medical staff can figure this out. The question that should concern the Giants media and fans is can they find another 6'6" 275 lb TE that can block and has good hands.

I'm confident that his medical records will transfer just fine too, but I think it's a mistake to just call this ACL surgery -- he did have a microfracture procedure.

To me, the most preposterous part of the article is the suggestion that Belichick must have been motivated by something other than wanting the player, because the Patriots obviously had no need of Ballard with Gronk and Hernandez on the roster.

Huh? First off, how can you possibly say what the 2013 Patriots will need? Secondly, didn't the Superbowl show just how much the Patriots' offense could use a 3rd quality TE? And finally, to heck with "need." This was about "opportunity"! A proven, productive young player unexpectedly comes down the waiver wire with a dirt-cheap contract...claim him now, and let the 2013 roster work itself out when the time comes.

 

[bagwell368]

Gary Myers from the NY Daily News discusses the Ballard move:

Signing Jake Ballard away from NY Giants shows Patriots coach Bill Belichick is Blue with envy - NY Daily News

What a steaming load of garbage that piece is. Self worshiping pap.

 

[mayoclinic]

Rex Ryan's take on the Pats claiming Ballard:

“Well, it’s just what the Patriots need, another tight end,” Ryan joked. “They’ve got enough of them over there. But, certainly (Ballard) is a good football player. So, we’ll see. If that means they’re going to take (Rob) Gronkowski off the field, I’m OK with that.”

It’s ‘backers to the future - BostonHerald.com

 

[Off The Grid]

Perhaps, it came off that way, but I can assure you it wasn't intended that way.

"Sorry" meant, sorry but I see it differently, not sorry let me educate you.

We'll have to diverge on our interpretation of nuances, but I greatly appreciate your taking the time to clarify your intention, Sir. That was truly gracious, and I'll keep it in mind when reading your future posts: On the Net, language "nuances" can cause such misunderstanding, we all know, and I'm gratefull that you chose to invest the time in helping better understand your personal style of posting.

 

[Ring 6]

We'll have to diverge on our interpretation of nuances, but I greatly appreciate your taking the time to clarify your intention, Sir. That was truly gracious, and I'll keep it in mind when reading your future posts: On the Net, language "nuances" can cause such misunderstanding, we all know, and I'm gratefull that you chose to invest the time in helping better understand your personal style of posting.

And the sincerity of your response makes me glad I did so.

 

[New-ERA]

I still don't see the point in this. Don't talk about "depth". We already have Hernandez and Gronk. Doubt this guy sees any playing time.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I still don't see the point in this. Don't talk about "depth". We already have Hernandez and Gronk. Doubt this guy sees any playing time.

Depth would have been nice in the Super Bowl.