Wes Welker: Contract talks with Pats have gotten worse

[BradyManny]

Sentence two. The catch would have been all the more important for the very fact that there is no way anyone can reasonably say that Welker "should have made" the catch. It would have been an over-the-top, almost miraculous catch made by a great player in his prime; the kind of catch that immortalizes the legacy of a great player and is the top of his "highlight reel" for decades to come.

Ugh, I hate to relive this. Second post today on this play. But I think, if you're feeling masochistic, you should rewatch this play again.

What difficulty there was in that catch owes some part to Welker's route and inability to transition to the back shoulder. He had ample time to adjust the route to be run less inside - and to transition to get on his back shoulder to make that in stride. That ball was in the air plenty of time. He slowed down, was slow to turn, and didn't jump high enough - and yet even then, once the ball hit his hands, he still should've had it.

That said, Brady could've made the debate moot by throwing a strike right in there from the getgo. Brady made the original mistake. Welker should've been able to make up for it. He didn't. And I feel badly for both guys, who I know would trade their wealth and health to reverse the outcome of that play.

As I said in the other thread, I don't blame either guy, or that play for the loss. It's a convenient place to start when trying to think of how the game slipped away, but its not the reason we lost - and there are half a dozen other plays of equal importance that immediately come to mind. But let's not sugarcoat that play.

 

[BradyManny]

Ian Rapoport on why the Pats "fear commitment" to Wes Welker:

Why New England Patriots fear commitment to Wes Welker | News | NFL.com

FWIW. Interesting read.

Interesting.

I don't see anything wrong - for either party - with paying Welker the franchise tag this year and taking it from there.

He'll be nearly fairly rewarded for the first time in his career - which is no knock on the Patriots, the extension they signed him to seemed rich at the time until we saw his outrageous production. And the Pats get another year of his services.

There is very,very little in trade I'd consider at this point to weaken the 2012 team as much as it would to part with him. It would take a huge bounty.

Just like in 2007 with Asante, let's just pay him this year and worry about next year next year.

The reality is that the wide receiver market has gotten so outlandish that what Welker should command on the open market is probably far beyond what the Patriots would pay. Both sides will have to find compromise or this will be Welker's last year as a Patriot, sadly. And neither side is doing anything wrong. Welker has every right to get top dollar. The Patriots have every right to set a value on him and not exceed it.

 

[Ron Sellers]

For what it's worth, Welker on twitter:

Don't believe the hype. Everyone wants to make a story. Control what u can control and move on.


NESN believes this comment is a response to allegations that the Patriots were not happy that he talked with Karen Guregian over at the Boston Herald the previous day and told her that contract talks with the Pats had gotten worse.

Wes Welker Says 'Don't Believe the Hype' Regarding Report That Patriots Upset With Receiver - NESN Daily - NESN.com

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

I think Welker should just shut up. It shouldn't be anyone's business but his and the Patriots about how his contract situation is going. He's running his mouth too much and I wouldn't be shocked if he's traded before the season starts, Edelman plays in the slot almost as good, so it's not like he's that big of a need. If Welker stays, it's likely because Brady begged management to keep him in, like he did Mankins and Light because I can't see any other reason the Patriots held on to those two. Welker is starting to sound like Brees and the rest of the greedy and ungrateful players in the league and I can't stand it. Just shut up about it.

And by the way, Welker should've caught that pass, every pass isn't gonna be on the money, it's called adjustment, which Moss was "smart" enough to do, during the majority of his stay in NE. Hopefully McDaniels has Lloyd or OchoCinco (learning how) to run those outside plays this year.

 

[mayoclinic]

Welker speaks out about speaking out:

Patriots\' Welker regrets speaking out about contract talks | News | NFL.com

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Interesting.

I don't see anything wrong - for either party - with paying Welker the franchise tag this year and taking it from there.

He'll be nearly fairly rewarded for the first time in his career - which is no knock on the Patriots, the extension they signed him to seemed rich at the time until we saw his outrageous production. And the Pats get another year of his services.

There is very,very little in trade I'd consider at this point to weaken the 2012 team as much as it would to part with him. It would take a huge bounty.

Just like in 2007 with Asante, let's just pay him this year and worry about next year next year.

The reality is that the wide receiver market has gotten so outlandish that what Welker should command on the open market is probably far beyond what the Patriots would pay. Both sides will have to find compromise or this will be Welker's last year as a Patriot, sadly. And neither side is doing anything wrong. Welker has every right to get top dollar. The Patriots have every right to set a value on him and not exceed it.

I agree, we need him this year but the Pats have a reputation of letting guys go a year too early rather than a year too late and its obvious they think he only has a couple years left before he slows.
He could buck the trend and last another 4-5 years but they dont seem to want to take that chance, you'd think they could come to an agreement with enough guaranteed money to make him happy but have an out if his production falls off quickly.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Welker speaks out about speaking out:

Patriots\' Welker regrets speaking out about contract talks | News | NFL.com

He should keep quiet and let his agent do the talking, he has the negotiation skills of George Costanza.

 

[Uncle Rico]

He should keep quiet and let his agent do the talking, he has the negotiation skills of George Costanza.

Yeah, I think this contract thing isn't his strength.

Welker backtracks on contract comments - Extra Points - Boston.com

If he has any good advisors at all, these will be pretty much his last word on the subject until things are settled:

Today? Everything's fine and dandy.

"That was probably a bad choice of words saying they’ve gotten worse," Welker said. "They’ve stayed the same. I’m franchised for the year and I’m completely happy with that and completely OK with it. I look forward to contributing to the team in 2012.

"I’m not frustrated whatsoever. I know the words that came out probably seemed that way but I’m not frustrated at all. I’m making five times what I did last year so there’s no frustration here."

Welker seems like a terrific guy who wants to be liked and appreciates what he has. Still, as tough a game as football is, business is a different type of brutal.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Here is a little more detail on Welker's comments from Saturday, trying to clear the air about speculation from his original comments.

Wes Welker Q&A at football clinic - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

But you’re frustrated with your contract talks?
“I’m not frustrated whatsoever. I know the words that came out maybe seemed that way. But I’m not frustrated at all. I’m making five times more than I did last year. There’s no frustration here.”

What went into the timing of signing the tender this week?
“I think OTAs coming up, and really wanting to get out there and get better and get out there with my teammates. And really just get ready for the 2012 season."

Was it a hard decision?
“Not for me. I don’t think so. I’m fully content with everything and content to get out there and help my team win ballgames.”​

There is a lot more to it in the above Q&A, but the bottom line is that Welker doesn't seem upset and doesn't seem to feel negotiations are not going well - at least that's what he is saying publicly.

 

[Joker]

yeah...but what you don't see is Welker has a vampire teeth prop in his mouth and is making like he's got them stuck in Pat Patriot's throat...and he's making all these menacing faces as he's talking.....I think those answers mean he's REALLY unhappy....so let's go with that for the foreseeable future because it fits the "always doom and gloom no matter what is happening" mindset around here.

 

[JMarr]

Some of you want to run a guy out of town who has been the most productive (per year) receiver in Patriots history, and had his his best season only last year. Not to mention he's the ultimate team player in an organization that looks specifically for unselfishness in its players.

Some Boston fans never cease to amaze.

 

[Sciz]

Some of you want to run a guy out of town who has been the most productive (per year) receiver in Patriots history, and had his his best season only last year. Not to mention he's the ultimate team player in an organization that looks specifically for unselfishness in its players.

Some Boston fans never cease to amaze.

How many yards do you expect from him in the 2014 season when he's 33?

 

[Snake Eyes]

Some of you want to run a guy out of town who has been the most productive (per year) receiver in Patriots history, and had his his best season only last year. Not to mention he's the ultimate team player in an organization that looks specifically for unselfishness in its players.

Some Boston fans never cease to amaze.

Who, exactly, wants to run Welker out of town? I want Welker to retire a Patriot but I can also understand the folly of paying an increasingly high amount to a player whose role will likely be decreasing.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Some of you want to run a guy out of town who has been the most productive (per year) receiver in Patriots history, and had his his best season only last year. Not to mention he's the ultimate team player in an organization that looks specifically for unselfishness in its players.

Some Boston fans never cease to amaze.

Read the article posted, not sure who wants to run him out of town I think most fans understand he may not have many years left and can see why the teams not extending him a large offer. Id love to see him be a Patriot for 5 more years and put up 5 more 1000+ yards seasons, not sure if thats gonna happen though.

 

[supafly]

How many yards do you expect from him in the 2014 season when he's 33?

I certainly understand where you're going, and it makes a lot of sense; but it still may be somewhat of a loaded question of sorts.

I think the best method to try and judge that answer would be the most obvious one, which would be to see what Welker is doing 2 yrs from now after the 2013 season; and that is the 100% reason why I think the NEP need to come up slightly on the money that they offered.

I think they got it right with the years offered in this case, but need to come up just a little bit from their original 2/16 deal. If they came up just a bit, both sides could feel like they 'won,' as Welker could get a fair deal (when compared to some of the other ridiculous contracts signed lately by WR's) of about 8.5 million per year (2 years/17 million).

There just won't be any way to fairly judge a deal over 2 years in my opinion, and both sides will continue to be frustrated. The only possible way would be to throw in some dummy numbers for year three as an out/option for the team, and even that may not work.

 

[supafly]

Read the article posted, not sure who wants to run him out of town I think most fans understand he may not have many years left and can see why the teams not extending him a large offer. Id love to see him be a Patriot for 5 more years and put up 5 more 1000+ yards seasons, not sure if thats gonna happen though.

I certainly agree with you there, as much as we'd all love to see him producing at a high level 4-5 yrs down the road it probably isn't going to happen.

But I also do not agree with taking it year-by-year either, as I think they are playing with fire on some level.

I think the 'right' and fair thing to do for both sides is to come to an arrangement on a 2 year deal, maybe 3 at the absolute max.

It would still guarantee us having #83 at a very high level for the next 2-3 seasons, which shouldn't be anywhere near as much of a gamble, considering the fact that the team is perfectly fine with paying an extremely high salary for one more year. An additional year of fair money should really not be that hard. Now if Welker wouldn't do that (2 to 3 yr deal), then he's just in denial.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

You might want to read what's been already written in this thread before making such a statement:

(post #38)

(post #78)

(post #92)

You posted three posts. Really? Who the **** made you the thread police?

 

[mayoclinic]

You posted three posts. Really? Who the **** made you the thread police?

Not at all. But you started your post with the following:

I think what you are all missing is that the Pats are not going to pay Welker on what he has done, but what they think he will do in the future.

No one's missing that. It's been discussed to a large extent, both in this threat and in other threads. So I disagree with your opening premise that we're all missing it. As Deus' reply to Patfanken points out, it's been emphasized repeatedly.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think Welker should just shut up. It shouldn't be anyone's business but his and the Patriots about how his contract situation is going. He's running his mouth too much and I wouldn't be shocked if he's traded before the season starts, Edelman plays in the slot almost as good, so it's not like he's that big of a need. If Welker stays, it's likely because Brady begged management to keep him in, like he did Mankins and Light because I can't see any other reason the Patriots held on to those two. Welker is starting to sound like Brees and the rest of the greedy and ungrateful players in the league and I can't stand it. Just shut up about it.

And by the way, Welker should've caught that pass, every pass isn't gonna be on the money, it's called adjustment, which Moss was "smart" enough to do, during the majority of his stay in NE. Hopefully McDaniels has Lloyd or OchoCinco (learning how) to run those outside plays this year.

This may put you in the running for most idiotic post of the season, but it's early yet and unfortunately there are always lots of contenders here. :woohoo:

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I certainly agree with you there, as much as we'd all love to see him producing at a high level 4-5 yrs down the road it probably isn't going to happen.

But I also do not agree with taking it year-by-year either, as I think they are playing with fire on some level.

I think the 'right' and fair thing to do for both sides is to come to an arrangement on a 2 year deal, maybe 3 at the absolute max.

It would still guarantee us having #83 at a very high level for the next 2-3 seasons, which shouldn't be anywhere near as much of a gamble, considering the fact that the team is perfectly fine with paying an extremely high salary for one more year. An additional year of fair money should really not be that hard. Now if Welker wouldn't do that (2 to 3 yr deal), then he's just in denial.

Two isn't reasonable under almost any circumstances unless they want to just offer him $21M guaranteed for two years which would be assinine when they could get another year or two for that kind of guaranteed money and those years wouldn't be guaranteed beyond they can keep him or even trade him not to mention even force him to take a pay cut to remain or dump him altogether if he's showing any signs of diminishing returns.

Mankins tore his ACL in year 1 of his 6 year $51M deal with $30M guaranteed. He will likey struggle and not perform at peak level in his first season back. 2013 he will be 30 with 4 years remaining on his deal. You know what, he will either return to top tier playing form then or they will start squeezing him to cut his pay and perhaps walk away from him altogether if he doesn't like that by the end of year 4. That's the way deals work in the NFL. If Welker wants more than $16M guaranteed that means he wants more than a two year deal, period. You don't fully guarantee any deal up front for lots of reasons largely related to cap consequence. You guarantee portions of the entire deal so that if the player wears out playing at a high level for you the risk/burden of that is to some extent shared.