Asante Samuel

[JMarr]

No.
10 char

 

[Ring 6]

who was not scrabble

Why Asante Samuel Was the Best Cornerback in the National Football League in 2010 - Philadelphia Eagles : Philadelphia Eagles

Even at his advanced age, Samuel is still a quality cornerback. He allowed only two touchdowns last season, intercepted three passed and deflected six others. Quarterbacks had a cumulative QB rating of 52.4 against him in 2011

Asante Samuel Trade Rumors: Denver Broncos Interested In Asante Samuel, According To Report - SB Nation Philly

So yeah he was there best corner. They are not willing to pay 3 high priced CBs it's not the production.

He's also the All-time leader in INT TDs in the playoffs and fifth all time in postseason INTs

Please tell me you aren't pimping Pro Footballl Focus as legitimate.
So yoiur argument is he was their best corner, but they decided the best one is the one to literally give away so you can keep 2 others that aren't as good?

 

[supafly]

who was not scrabble

Why Asante Samuel Was the Best Cornerback in the National Football League in 2010 - Philadelphia Eagles : Philadelphia Eagles

Even at his advanced age, Samuel is still a quality cornerback. He allowed only two touchdowns last season, intercepted three passed and deflected six others. Quarterbacks had a cumulative QB rating of 52.4 against him in 2011

Asante Samuel Trade Rumors: Denver Broncos Interested In Asante Samuel, According To Report - SB Nation Philly

So yeah he was there best corner. They are not willing to pay 3 high priced CBs it's not the production.

He's also the All-time leader in INT TDs in the playoffs and fifth all time in postseason INTs

I actually had Samuel as 10 passes defended last year, according to pro football reference; and even that is not very impressive.

Also keep in mind that Samuel had only 3 INT's all year.

Regardless, it cannot be argued that Samuel is likely a top 10-12 or so CB in some aspects still. That shouldn't be disputed, but his weaknesses also loom very large, and that is what some teams do not care for.

At any rate, the chances of Belichick even considering him are terribly slim, and that's not even taking his high salary into account. That fact alone makes it a no-brainer.

In my opinion, Belichick wouldn't even consider him at 1/2 the salary that he is earning due to prior experiences with him + his huge liabilities in some areas.

Asante Samuel NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[wpdougie2180]

Several notes in response to your post:

--Samuel coming on a 'reduced' contract that is due to pay him 10+ this year, and 11 1/2 next year doesn't mean too much, does it? What do you expect his 'reduced' rate to be? Maybe 8 1/2---9 million per? That's about the absolute BEST case you're going to get from Asante, and that wouldn't put him close to being in Belichick's price range.

--Forget about the incorrectly perceived 'cheapness' of the deal. The only thing 'cheap' is the asking draft pick compensation. That doesn't mean anything. It's his salary that is way too high.

--Although I will agree that Samuel would have been better than anyone else that we had in the secondary last year (recently had this debate with Deus), it should also be noted that Belichick prefers players who work hard on every play, buy into the scheme, and of course...tackle. Freelancing isn't looked at with much approval here. There are many secondary players who may not have the raw talent that Samuel has in certain situations, but it is safe to say that all of them make up for some of that by providing other positive attributes. 'Raw' talent in certain situations does not mean everything.

--Belichick does not tend to overpay at certain situations, and CB is certainly one of them. He has done a good job (finally) of drafting cheap players who are young, talented, and work hard at what they do. Most of all, they all provide great value right now with cheap pacts. The Leigh Bodden deal is about the best you're going to get from Belichick, at least until McCourty is due. Belichick will likely allow Arrington to walk next year, rather than pay him the 6 or so million per that he will get from someone else, and he led the NFL in INT's last year...That should tell you something.

--Samuel certainly was not their best CB last year, although that is a debate that could go both ways, and one that I can respect your stance on. There were many stats that pointed to Samuel's downfall last year such as his having only 3 INT's, and only 10 passes defended (Sterling Moore had 10 passes defended in only 6 games, while Samuel had that in an entire season). However, I also saw a stat that pointed to one of his positives, which was holding opposing QB's to only 48% completion rate (Arrington in comparion, allowed a 54% completion rate). There's also the fact that Samuel does not like to tackle and shies away from contact like a turtle going back into his shell.

--His attitude doesn't exactly point to the team, rather to himself. That does not bode too well for a potential NEP prospect.

I agree with most of this all i said was If they could get him under those circumstances they should not say it will or even probable just IF the stars align they should that's all. Amd on his tackling he was the eagles best tackling CB think about that for a min,

Asante Samuel thinks he's pretty good, and he's not completely wrong

 

[supafly]

How was his drop worse than Welker's this year??

That said, I oppose bringing him back, for reasons other posters have stated.

In fairness it wasn't worse at all.

I honestly believe that BOTH of the plays/drops in question were harder to catch than they appeared from a fan's standpoint. Samuel had to try and track the ball while watching for the sideline, and wasn't able to snag the ball.

The Welker drop was not necessarily any easier. He had to twist his body around while trying to also track and grab the ball at the same time. It certainly wasn't a 'drop' in my mind, despite what the media tried to make it out to be.

Sometimes you get the bounces, and sometimes you don't.

 

[wpdougie2180]

Please tell me you aren't pimping Pro Footballl Focus as legitimate.
So yoiur argument is he was their best corner, but they decided the best one is the one to literally give away so you can keep 2 others that aren't as good?

He's also the oldest of the 3 as if you didn't know that and Nnamdi for all the people who think he was better was a worst tackler had the same amount of INts and only half of Samuel paltry 10 pass defensed (meaning 5 for the kids at home) despite being targeted more and Rogers-Cromartie had 0 Ints and 6 PD and also was a worst tackler so how were they better because i watched alot of the self proclaimed dream team last year. So do you trade away the older more easy to move Contract (22 million over 2 years or 38 million over 3 years) as I was saying he was there best corner and if you can get him on the cheap you do it.

 

[Ring 6]

He's also the oldest of the 3 as if you didn't know that and Nnamdi for all the people who think he was better was a worst tackler had the same amount of INts and only half of Samuel paltry 10 pass defensed (meaning 5 for the kids at home) despite being targeted more and Rogers-Cromartie had 0 Ints and 6 PD and also was a worst tackler so how were they better because i watched alot of the self proclaimed dream team last year. So do you trade away the older more easy to move Contract (22 million over 2 years or 38 million over 3 years) as I was saying he was there best corner and if you can get him on the cheap you do it.

It appears we weren't watching the same player. It appears the Eagles saw the one I did, and given that no one is trading a 5th round pick for him, it seems the other 31 clubs did too.

 

[supafly]

He's also the oldest of the 3 as if you didn't know that and Nnamdi for all the people who think he was better was a worst tackler had the same amount of INts and only half of Samuel paltry 10 pass defensed (meaning 5 for the kids at home) despite being targeted more and Rogers-Cromartie had 0 Ints and 6 PD and also was a worst tackler so how were they better because i watched alot of the self proclaimed dream team last year. So do you trade away the older more easy to move Contract (22 million over 2 years or 38 million over 3 years) as I was saying he was there best corner and if you can get him on the cheap you do it.

I think Nnamdi is much better as a more physical man to man cover CB, and by some rumors that is the direction the Eagles are trying to move towards.

I think a lot of people should agree that "if you could get him on the cheap, you'd do it." That is a very true and fair statement for you to make in my opinion. Bill Belichick may not agree, but we'll only be able to speculate since he'd never tell us.

Samuel honestly believes that he's one of the top few CB's in the game, and acts and demands that everyone should agree with him. He will be expecting to get paid like a top 5 CB still, there's really no douting that.

I think we all could go back and forth all night proving Samuel's strengths and weaknesses in different ways (and we'd both be right on some levels), but at the end of the day it seems as though our coach feels that his weaknesses and price simply outweigh the prospect of adding him to the team.

 

[wpdougie2180]

It appears we weren't watching the same player. It appears the Eagles saw the one I did, and given that no one is trading a 5th round pick for him, it seems the other 31 clubs did too.

Ever hear Correlation does not imply causation? No one wants that contract and tell me which DB on the eagles was better than samuel since going simply by stats the other 2 were worse and going by the eyeball test they were also. Once again with you being a GM do you get rid of the older guy with a bad contract or the guy that was the crown jewel of Free Agency after one year (that by every metric was worse than Samuel) or the 26 year old that only cost 1 million? I'm waiting on your answer.

 

[wpdougie2180]

I think Nnamdi is much better as a more physical man to man cover CB, and by some rumors that is the direction the Eagles are trying to move towards.

I think a lot of people should agree that "if you could get him on the cheap, you'd do it." That is a very true and fair statement for you to make in my opinion. Bill Belichick may not agree, but we'll only be able to speculate since he'd never tell us.

Samuel honestly believes that he's one of the top few CB's in the game, and acts and demands that everyone should agree with him. He will be expecting to get paid like a top 5 CB still, there's really no douting that.

I think we all could go back and forth all night proving Samuel's strengths and weaknesses in different ways (and we'd both be right on some levels), but at the end of the day it seems as though our coach feels that his weaknesses and price simply outweigh the prospect of adding him to the team.

We are in agreement but based of last year would you not agree Samuel was better that Nnamdi? With a different scheme Nnamdi may be better but in the same scheme last year on the same team Samuel was better that's all i'm saying no assumptions to be made no ifs just both guys played for the same team and one was better last year.

 

[Ring 6]

Ever hear Correlation does not imply causation? No one wants that contract and tell me which DB on the eagles was better than samuel since going simply by stats the other 2 were worse and going by the eyeball test they were also. Once again with you being a GM do you get rid of the older guy with a bad contract or the guy that was the crown jewel of Free Agency after one year (that by every metric was worse than Samuel) or the 26 year old that only cost 1 million? I'm waiting on your answer.

Pro Football Focus stats are as useful and a 5 year olds opinion written in crayon.
I have already explained to you that my eye test says it wasn't even close.
If the Eagles felt the way you want to believe they do about Samuel, they wouldn't have signed Aso to put themselves in this position. Him failing to live up to his massive contract caused them to give another one out. Now they are giving him away. If he were their best corner, they would keep him, they wouldn't give him away for nothing.

 

[Ring 6]

In fairness it wasn't worse at all.

I honestly believe that BOTH of the plays/drops in question were harder to catch than they appeared from a fan's standpoint. Samuel had to try and track the ball while watching for the sideline, and wasn't able to snag the ball.

The Welker drop was not necessarily any easier. He had to twist his body around while trying to also track and grab the ball at the same time. It certainly wasn't a 'drop' in my mind, despite what the media tried to make it out to be.

Sometimes you get the bounces, and sometimes you don't.

I usually respect your opinions, but making the excuse that its hard to catch the ball because you have to track it and watch the sideline is a load of baloney. Excusing Welker because he had to turn when Brady threw away from trouble, as he has done for all of Welkers 5 years here is wacky too. If a WR gets 2 hands on the ball, he must catch it, not use an excuse that he turned to the other shoulder.

 

[wpdougie2180]

In fairness it wasn't worse at all.

I honestly believe that BOTH of the plays/drops in question were harder to catch than they appeared from a fan's standpoint. Samuel had to try and track the ball while watching for the sideline, and wasn't able to snag the ball.

The Welker drop was not necessarily any easier. He had to twist his body around while trying to also track and grab the ball at the same time. It certainly wasn't a 'drop' in my mind, despite what the media tried to make it out to be.

Sometimes you get the bounces, and sometimes you don't.

We agree again As mad as I was about both those plays resulted in the patriots losing the lead (tyree catch also) it was plays after that did that that's like the 98 Vicking blaming Gary Anderson for the lost despite them being up 7 after he missed. Welker's was on 2nd down so we had another offense play and a whole defensive drive to stop them and Asante only put the ball at the about the 24 with a sack and a dropped INT by merriweather (right thru his hands the second one in that game by the way)on the next 2 plays immediately following the tyree catch. So to put it on one player is wrong they win as a team they lose as a team

 

[YearbookCurfew]

That drop...........

No thanks.

 

[wpdougie2180]

Pro Football Focus stats are as useful and a 5 year olds opinion written in crayon.
I have already explained to you that my eye test says it wasn't even close.
If the Eagles felt the way you want to believe they do about Samuel, they wouldn't have signed Aso to put themselves in this position. Him failing to live up to his massive contract caused them to give another one out. Now they are giving him away. If he were their best corner, they would keep him, they wouldn't give him away for nothing.

So let me get this straight so leading the league 2 years in a row in INTs and being graded the best corner even over Revis by Every advanced metric site not just Football Focus means that the Eagles are smart to replace him did you see them last year they signed every free agent available and the still sucked. Asante is assumed to be on the down side of his career despite being only a few months older than Aso but the eagles are willing to do whatever is necessarily to appease him since they just gave him 60 million. And just because the other teams pass on himdoesn't make it right isn't a million different examples where 31 teams has passed on a guy only for him to be a stellar player not saying he will be in the future but that's a terrible reason to pass on a guy.

 

[Ring 6]

So let me get this straight so leading the league 2 years in a row in INTs and being graded the best corner even over Revis by Every advanced metric site not just Football Focus

Exaggerate much
By all means please link all of these sites that rank Samuel 'the best corner by EVERY advanced metric'.
If we are going to reduce the argument to # of Ints = quality of play by a corner, we might just as well use the Pro Football Focus drivel.

means that the Eagles are smart to replace him

Smart or not, they are making the decision to give him away. They are certainly qualified to make that decision.

did you see them last year they signed every free agent available and the still sucked.

Is your argument that you are more qualified than the Eagle coaching staff and front office to evaluate him?

Asante is assumed to be on the down side of his career despite being only a few months older than Aso but the eagles are willing to do whatever is necessarily to appease him since they just gave him 60 million.

That sounds like sour grapes.

And just because the other teams pass on himdoesn't make it right isn't a million different examples where 31 teams has passed on a guy only for him to be a stellar player not saying he will be in the future but that's a terrible reason to pass on a guy.

My argument: You are overrating him, as proven by 31 teams unwilling to give up a 5th round pick (or maybe nothing at all for him) and the 32nd pleading to give him away for a 5th.
Your argument: You aren't overating him because there have been 2nd round picks who turned into good players.
Yeah, I think the facts speak for themselves.

 

[Seels]

There is no possible reality that says Asante Samuel was the Eagles best corner last year. Of course the fact that they wish to give him away kind of proves that.

There are plenty of things that say as much. This is why they're trading him, because the scheme they currently have doesn't allow their other CBs to play to their best. They ran a zone scheme in 2011 instead of man, which was great for a free lancing Asante, but not good for DRC or Asomugha.

They have a longer financial investment in Asomugha, it makes complete sense that they would want to get rid of a guy that doesn't fit a scheme they're switching to.

 

[Ring 6]

There are plenty of things that say as much. This is why they're trading him, because the scheme they currently have doesn't allow their other CBs to play to their best. They ran a zone scheme in 2011 instead of man, which was great for a free lancing Asante, but not good for DRC or Asomugha.

They have a longer financial investment in Asomugha, it makes complete sense that they would want to get rid of a guy that doesn't fit a scheme they're switching to.

They are giving him away, and no one is taking. Nice story/excuse, but it really doesn't hold water to argue he was their best corner last year. Of course, thats because he wasn't.

 

[wpdougie2180]

Exaggerate much
By all means please link all of these sites that rank Samuel 'the best corner by EVERY advanced metric'.
If we are going to reduce the argument to # of Ints = quality of play by a corner, we might just as well use the Pro Football Focus drivel.



Smart or not, they are making the decision to give him away. They are certainly qualified to make that decision.



Is your argument that you are more qualified than the Eagle coaching staff and front office to evaluate him?



That sounds like sour grapes.




My argument: You are overrating him, as proven by 31 teams unwilling to give up a 5th round pick (or maybe nothing at all for him) and the 32nd pleading to give him away for a 5th.
Your argument: You aren't overating him because there have been 2nd round picks who turned into good players.
Yeah, I think the facts speak for themselves.

In 2010, Asante Samuel tied for the NFL lead with seven interceptions, despite missing five starts due to injuries.

He victimized Peyton Manning for two interceptions, including the game-winner, and victimized Eli Manning for two interceptions, including the game-winner.

He also defensed 14 passes, forced and recovered a fumble, and picked up 22 tackles.

He earned his fourth consecutive Pro Bowl selection, and his third as a member of the Eagles.

But was Asante Samuel really that good in 2010? Or did his stats just appear to be great because he had a bunch of interceptions, most of which came in a two-game period?

According to Pro Football Focus, Asante Samuel was targeted just 41 times in 2010, an average of about four per game. He allowed 19 completions, meaning opposing quarterbacks completed 46.3% of passes thrown in his direction.

Those completions traveled 141 yards, just 7.42 yards per catch and only 3.44 yards per pass attempt. He allowed two touchdowns and intercepted seven passes.

And Asante Samuel allowed a passer rating of 31.7. That’s unbelievable. He was significantly above average in all four criteria used to judge passer rating: completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdown percentage, and interception percentage.

By comparison, Oakland Raiders star cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha posted the following statistics:
13-33, 205 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 60.8 passer rating

And New York Jets cornerback Darrelle Revis allowed:
19-56, 340 yards, 4 TD, 0 INT, 79.5 passer rating

Samuel dominated both Asomugha and Revis in yards per catch, interceptions, and most importantly, passer rating.

You can make the argument that teams constantly picked on opposing cornerbacks Dimitri Patterson and Ellis Hobbs because Samuel was such a shutdown corner, and that’s definitely true.

However, the numbers don’t lie. Samuel intercepted over 15 percent of all of the passes thrown to him. An interception is the best play for a defense to make, and Asante provided it seven times, including twice to win the game.

Asomugha was targeted almost as many times as Samuel. Revis was thrown at more times than Samuel. Neither picked off an interception. Not one.

Football Outsiders analyzed cornerbacks in 2010 for their performance in three different categories: yards per pass, yards after the catch, and success rate. Success rate is defined as the percentage of passes that don’t get 45 percent of the yardage needed on first down, 60 percent of yards on second down, or 100 percent of yards on third down.

Samuel topped the NFL in success rate at a dazzling 78 percent. Revis ranked second at 70 percent, while Asomugha failed to crack the top ten.

Samuel also finished first in the NFL in yards per pass, allowing just 141 passing yards all season. That’s a paltry 3.44 yards per pass.

His 31.7 passer rating allowed is miles ahead of the other three cornerbacks for the Eagles: Dimitri Patterson (93.0), Ellis Hobbs (102.2), and Joselio Hanson (104.1).

It was the best in the National Football League in 2010.

Samuel has been criticized for his all-or-nothing style of play as a cornerback but in 2010, he was simply incredible. He was a total shutdown cornerback. And he was a playmaker.

He was the most valuable member of the Philadelphia Eagles’ defense, and the best cornerback in the NFL in the 2010 season.

I'm not saying he's greatest just that he's better than alot of teams CBs, I never said I was smarter than the Eagles' FO but to say just cause they're getting rid of a 31 year old CB making 11 million each of the next two years and no one wants to pay that means he hasn't been good. For instance Revis is the 16th highest paid CB, Eric Wright is the 5th highest paid so using what other teams think once again isn't a great example.

 

[supafly]

I usually respect your opinions, but making the excuse that its hard to catch the ball because you have to track it and watch the sideline is a load of baloney. Excusing Welker because he had to turn when Brady threw away from trouble, as he has done for all of Welkers 5 years here is wacky too. If a WR gets 2 hands on the ball, he must catch it, not use an excuse that he turned to the other shoulder.

To each his own, my friend.

When I think of the word 'drop' I think of plays like the ones on the last gasp final drive. Passes that should've been caught in every single situation imaginable since pee-wee football.

I don't personally come to that conclusion with the Welker situation. I think that Brady and the pressure should certainly share in the 'blame' if there is any. Then again, I wouldn't really use the word blame in that situation.

There are people who feel as though any time a ball hits you in the hands, that you should always catch it. While I can certainly understand that thinking, I also feel that is a bit unrealistic at the same time.

I do remember being frustrated with the Samuel situation, but after seeing replays I remember not feeling quite as mad at Samuel personally. I still feel that sometimes 'good' catches just aren't always made, and I feel as though both the Welker and Samuel situation would've qualified as good catches if they would've been brought down.

I think that my only real point is that there is a fine line between what we may deem as routine, and I would tend to give them both the benefit of the doubt that either one was 'routine'--although we both know that they could've made them too. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen.

Now if the game depended upon the Branch or Hernandez drops at the end of the game, then I could understand the whole "Butterfinger" media prank etc. Those to me, were examples of actual 'drops' and routine plays that should always be made.

I will admit that I also have not gone back since those moments to re-watch them again (since seeing replays in the game setting of course), as it's just too painful still. Knowing that, you must of course take my opinion on the matter with a grain of salt.

Sometimes I am more forgiving than others, and I'm pretty sure that I'll continue to give those 2 plays the benefit of the doubt, especially the Welker play--as hard as it still is to imagine.