Pre draft cap update

[MoLewisrocks]

Aaron Wilson ? @RavensInsider

AFC East salary cap update: Patriots ($10.717 million), Bills ($9.715 million), Jets $7.854 million), Dolphins ($6.074 million),

This of course is counting the top 51 and pending an anticipated Light retirement which will net at least a $5M (minus a top 51 roster adjustment) in additional cap savings (and essentially cover the full cost of signing all 6 draft picks or however many Bill chooses to make through to the signing of their deals in July and the 53 man roster in September provided they make it).

Also means Jason at jetscap is tracking ours at a pretty impressive level as he is currently within a couple of hundred thousand of that figure - and amongst amateur capologists that's about as accurate as it gets.

 

[ivanvamp]

Aaron Wilson ? @RavensInsider

AFC East salary cap update: Patriots ($10.717 million), Bills ($9.715 million), Jets $7.854 million), Dolphins ($6.074 million),

This of course is counting the top 51 and pending an anticipated Light retirement which will net at least a $5M (minus a top 51 roster adjustment) in additional cap savings (and essentially cover the full cost of signing all 6 draft picks or however many Bill chooses to make through to the signing of their deals in July and the 53 man roster in September provided they make it).

Also means Jason at jetscap is tracking ours at a pretty impressive level as he is currently within a couple of hundred thousand of that figure - and amongst amateur capologists that's about as accurate as it gets.

Two things: First, yes, kudos to Jason - that's great information he has there. Second, it's amazing that the Pats, with as many moves as they've made this offseason, will still likely be $15 million under the cap (with the assumed Light retirement). Maybe they should offer Marcus McNeil a reasonable deal (multiple time pro-bowler at LT, still a free agent) and see if he takes it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

They have the flexibility to do pretty much whatever they want. So if they haven't done something (like tender a RFA) or don't do something between now and TC (like sign a FA or trade for a player) you can probably assume they didn't want or feel they needed to... And that flexibility includes the ability to get an extension or two done before the end of the season so it can be frontloaded to eat up some 2012 cap and be friendlier during the next couple of flat cap seasons, or they can roll the excess over to make their future personal caps less flat...

 

[BlueThunder]

How about signing Wes to a long term contract and saving even more

Pats are in a great place cap wise. Expect more vet signings after the draft to fill in any holes. Also expect Wes to get signed before camp. If not, it will probably be due to his agent.

6 days and counting.

 

[TB146]

They have the flexibility to do pretty much whatever they want. So if they haven't done something (like tender a RFA) or don't do something between now and TC (like sign a FA or trade for a player) you can probably assume they didn't want or feel they needed to... And that flexibility includes the ability to get an extension or two done before the end of the season so it can be frontloaded to eat up some 2012 cap and be friendlier during the next couple of flat cap seasons, or they can roll the excess over to make their future personal caps less flat...

That's a great point. If they haven't done (xyz move), it's not because they couldn't, they merely chose not to (or not yet anyway).

 

[BradyManny]

So Light pushes us between 15-18 (depending on if he returns the rest of the amortized signing bonus, does anyone know the precedence there?)

It certainly gives the Pats a lot of flexibility. Carter, rookies and a vet RB will still leave plenty of space that we can either move into next year (right?) and/or use for some moves made closer to training camp, as we did last year with Carter/Ocho/Haynesworth/Waters. We don't have the ammo to pull off trades at the moment, but I bet next week we acquire some 2013 picks to give us that flexibility.

 

[patfanken]

That's a great point. If they haven't done (xyz move), it's not because they couldn't, they merely chose not to (or not yet anyway).

I think that once Light's retirement hits the books and Wes' deal gets done, the Pats could be pretty close to $20MM under the cap. But don't expect to see any major signings THIS season -

One point to remember is that any excess cap money from this season can be rolled over into next season. So the Pats should have plenty of ammo to be a big player in next season's FA marketplace. Remember they also wipe out most of the $11MM in dead money they got hit with this season.

They still have to sign Andre Carter ( best guess would be in the $3-5MM range), and they could use the space to extend some vets. Interestingly they are probably one of the few teams that could afford to bring in Samuel if they don't get a CB they like in the draft.

It is amazing that the Pats can be so consistently good, yet avoid so much of the cap problems that hit even the "good" franchises like the steelers and the giants

 

[MoLewisrocks]

So Light pushes us between 15-18 (depending on if he returns the rest of the amortized signing bonus, does anyone know the precedence there?)

It certainly gives the Pats a lot of flexibility. Carter, rookies and a vet RB will still leave plenty of space that we can either move into next year (right?) and/or use for some moves made closer to training camp, as we did last year with Carter/Ocho/Haynesworth/Waters. We don't have the ammo to pull off trades at the moment, but I bet next week we acquire some 2013 picks to give us that flexibility.

There is precedent (TJ and Tedy) and it is entirely up to teams whether or not to persue forfeiture and reimbursement of signing bonus prorations in retirement. I have a feeling this was all stipulated when he was brought back because I don't think he comes back as starting LT for one year and $4M. He certainly could have gotten more elsewhere. $7M is about right. Leaving $5M to be dangled or saved depending on his (or by mutual) decision.

And everyone will acquire some 2013 picks next week, about 7 of them on average...if they haven't already traded some away;.) Oddly I don't think Bill will be as eager to trade those as he's been in the recent past, although a late rounder and potentially a conditional one is possible if they think there is a potential slot for JAB. He could represent an upgrade over Stallworth and Ocho and even Branch as a #2 WR backup plan to Lloyd or the #4-5 target - but what a deep obscenity of riches unit that would be. And at 31 he should be OK for another year or two as well making it even less necessary to look for a developmental WR this time around.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think that once Light's retirement hits the books and Wes' deal gets done, the Pats could be pretty close to $20MM under the cap. But don't expect to see any major signings THIS season -

One point to remember is that any excess cap money from this season can be rolled over into next season. So the Pats should have plenty of ammo to be a big player in next season's FA marketplace. Remember they also wipe out most of the $11MM in dead money they got hit with this season.

They still have to sign Andre Carter ( best guess would be in the $3-5MM range), and they could use the space to extend some vets. Interestingly they are probably one of the few teams that could afford to bring in Samuel if they don't get a CB they like in the draft.

It is amazing that the Pats can be so consistently good, yet avoid so much of the cap problems that hit even the "good" franchises like the steelers and the giants

One of the reasons they are in the position they are in is because they have largely avoided the pitfalls of day 1 FA when players are overvalued and they have parted ways with guys who didn't represent value at less than what they are still earning, guys who were on this roster when it lost another SB and one in particular who was significantly responsible for them not winning... He won't be back. In part because of his boom or bust playmaking as well as his longstanding inflexibility from either a financial or scheme standpoint (the Eagles issue with him as he won't play any position other than LCB). I did hear the asking price is down to a 6th or 7th rounder and fortunately we have neither...

 

[patfanken]

One of the reasons they are in the position they are in is because they have largely avoided the pitfalls of day 1 FA when players are overvalued and they have parted ways with guys who didn't represent value at less than what they are still earning, guys who were on this roster when it lost another SB and one in particular who was significantly responsible for them not winning... He won't be back. In part because of his boom or bust playmaking as well as his longstanding inflexibility from either a financial or scheme standpoint (the Eagles issue with him as he won't play any position other than LCB). I did hear the asking price is down to a 6th or 7th rounder and fortunately we have neither...

Assante is a particularly good object lesson about big money FA's. There are people who still claim that not signing him cost the Pats some superbowls. But the bigger lesson is in how these deals are structured. The eagles are now willing to dump him for a jock strap and a pair of sox simply because he no longer is worth the $11MM the they are due to pay him for the next 2 years.

Quite frankly the Eagles wouldn't get even that because no one is going to take on that kind of contract for a play making CB, who either doesn't like to tackle or is very bad at it. He'd have to cut his price in half before anyone will give the eagles a sniff. And why give the Eagles even a 7th round pick when its very likely they'll have to release him this summer.

BTW- at first I thought you were referring to A Thomas, who might have been our superbowl MVP in 2007. He's a good example of how to sign a first day big FA. I think the Pats got more value out of him than most here, but he certainly wasn't as good as we hoped. But regardless of which side of that issue you fall on, its pretty clear that his contract never hampered our cap situation, nor did his release.

I'm sure if the Pats did try and go after a big name FA next season, they won't wind up with a contract that hamstrings them like the Jets have done with the Pace, Scott, and Holmes deals, or like the Eagles now have with Samuel

 

[JMC00]

They should use that money to extend some guys. Chung, Arrington, Love & Vollmer are free agents after this season. Gronk, Hernandez, Spikes, McCourty & Mesko are only signed thru 2013.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Aaron Wilson ? @RavensInsider

AFC East salary cap update: Patriots ($10.717 million), Bills ($9.715 million), Jets $7.854 million), Dolphins ($6.074 million),

This of course is counting the top 51 and pending an anticipated Light retirement which will net at least a $5M (minus a top 51 roster adjustment) in additional cap savings (and essentially cover the full cost of signing all 6 draft picks or however many Bill chooses to make through to the signing of their deals in July and the 53 man roster in September provided they make it).

Also means Jason at jetscap is tracking ours at a pretty impressive level as he is currently within a couple of hundred thousand of that figure - and amongst amateur capologists that's about as accurate as it gets.

Thanks, Mo, for the above and other very useful and encouraging information in this thread.

When I read a thread like this, I get torn between being excited about the possibilities on the one hand and thinking on the other hand that the Pats are so talented and so well-coached already that it would be nice if the Football Gods would let us trade one of our First Rounders for a bounce (as in the three fumbles the Giants put on the ground in this year's SB that we didn't recover) or a play (like those that Asante and Welker and Hernandez didn't make and those that Tyree and Manningham did make in our last two SB's).

Yes, I know that's the kind of thinking that can drive one crazy :bricks: , but a couple of bounces and plays are more what stand between these highly talented and oh so well-coached Belichick/Brady Patriots and five trophies than are a couple more signings.

And, yes, I also know that they still have to make every effort to sign the best players they can afford and that fit with their system, but it is maddening, isn't it?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Two things: First, yes, kudos to Jason - that's great information he has there. Second, it's amazing that the Pats, with as many moves as they've made this offseason, will still likely be $15 million under the cap (with the assumed Light retirement). Maybe they should offer Marcus McNeil a reasonable deal (multiple time pro-bowler at LT, still a free agent) and see if he takes it.

Why pay McNeil pro-bowl player money when they have Solder locked into his rookie deal and he was drafted in the 1st round to replace Light?

If we have 10m of cap space (5m set aside for rookie signings) I'd rather get a premium impact defender to strengthen that defense.

 

[fester]

How about signing Wes to a long term contract and saving even more

Pats are in a great place cap wise....

If the Patriots are operating with effectively $15 million in free cap space pre-draft but with a $9.8 million Welker cap hit, why not keep that cap number the same or even slightly increase it in 2012 if Welker signs long term to give greater flexibility in the future for the case where Welker declines faster than the Patriots project?

 

[cstjohn17]

After the draft it is time to look ahead, Chung and Vollmer are free agents after this year. The year after that is Gronk, Herdandez, Spikes,

patriots by contract length espnboston - Yahoo! Search Results

 

[DaBruinz]

They should use that money to extend some guys. Chung, Arrington, Love & Vollmer are free agents after this season. Gronk, Hernandez, Spikes, McCourty & Mesko are only signed thru 2013.

Love will be a Restricted free agent after this year, so the Pats really control his destiny.

I would not be surprised to see the others signed to extensions during the season since that has become more of the Pats modus operandi of late. Sign them to the extension when they still have more than a year left on the contract.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Chung, Arrington and Vollmer signed to deals, but that could easily eat up that 15 million depending on what those three are looking for. Especially with how Ladarius Webb just picked up a 10M/year deal. That could mean that Arrington could be looking at a 7-10 million pay day. And that is a LOT for him, in all honesty.

 

[Joker]

That could mean that Arrington could be looking at a 7-10 million pay day.

could be...not with the Patriots however...

 

[supafly]

That could mean that Arrington could be looking at a 7-10 million pay day.

could be...not with the Patriots however...

Ditto that.

No way in hell that this team gives out a pact to Arrington like that.

It's totally out of the realm of possibilities.

Arrington has been a great overachiever at his position, and on the team in general; but one of his bigger 'overachieving' numbers also has to do with the fact that he's making 1.85 this year against the cap. He's a value at his current deal, but he won't sniff anything close to 7-10 per yr here.

He offers the team a great deal in many ways, but he certainly has his limitations too. They will be able to replace his production on some level, especially when he's delegated to slot duty this year, and was slated to do the same last yr. If he provided good, physical one-on-one man coverage skills on the outside that'd be one thing, but it's time to hope for the best in Dowling and probably take another CB next weekend.

I'd keep Arrington for about 4-5 million per with no problem, but that certainly will not be enough for him, as he has likely earned something more significant. I don't personally agree with "7-10 million" unless he has a repeat performance again in 2013. He's not there quite yet, although he could be with another stellar season. The next season will certainly set Arrington's FA value on the open market one way or the other, but I'm expecting him to sign something closer to 5-6 million per on the FA open market, as opposed to 7-10. Only time will tell, and we all have our opinions.

 

[supafly]

I would not be surprised to see the others signed to extensions during the season since that has become more of the Pats modus operandi of late. Sign them to the extension when they still have more than a year left on the contract.

Besides Brady and Mayo, have we seen that a lot lately? I'm not being a smartass, I am just honestly wondering if I'm forgetting anyone and cannot remember too many times where it's happened lately.


Mankins, Wilfork, Moss, Welker, Samuel, Seymour (most recent deal), Law, Branch (one could make an argument, since that's what he wanted), Vinateri, Givens etc all have gone down to the wire--and those are some pretty big names. Franchise tagging has been used in some, holdouts have been used in some, some have tested the FA waters and re-signed at the last minute as in Moss' situation, and some have left and gone to other teams as in Law, Givens, Vinateri, Samuel. Of course Seymour was traded, as was Branch--and both of them wanted extensions too.

Brady has always been extended early, every single time. So he seems to be the exception to the rule. Mayo's extension was the one that suprised a lot of people in my opinion, at least the timing of it. I did not realize that it was really a pattern though, maybe I am wrong.

FWIW--I do agree that they will/should tackle one or two of the bigger names a year early, and that may be the strategy that will be used for the upcoming yr or two.

 

[supafly]

Why pay McNeil pro-bowl player money when they have Solder locked into his rookie deal and he was drafted in the 1st round to replace Light?

If we have 10m of cap space (5m set aside for rookie signings) I'd rather get a premium impact defender to strengthen that defense.

Agreed, unless they somehow got a great value deal out of McNeil, which I'm not really seeing--and not really am even sure how much he'd be worth here anyway.

Defense all the way, extend Wes + look to the future towards resigning our own.