Content Post Bill Belichick's draft strategy.

[randomk1]

Belichick's draft philosophy is hardly the thing that is hurting us right now(are we hurting? we look like one of most loaded teams out there).
It's just that black hole of talent in the middle of the last decade where we just missed on most of our picks on D.

Spikes,Chung,McCourty and perhaps even Dowling look promising going forward though.

 

[Fencer]

Plus how the Pats won super bowls a decade ago is sort of irrelevant now. Since the passing rule changes 2 teams that do put a premium on pass rushers (Steelers/Giants) have 4 SBs while the Pats have none.

Actually, you can include the Colts.

 

[Rob0729]

Its wasnt only the final drive. Manning had a 75% completion percentage for that game. In the 4th quarter he completed 10 of 14 for 118 yards and 7 first downs.

Stats & Info: How Giants, Eli came through - Giants Blog - ESPN New York

If you beleive there is nothing wrong with the Pats passing defense I sure hope that Belichick doesnt think the same.

Where did I say the Pats' defense did nothing wrong. I said the defense failed on the last drive, but they did play well enough through the entire game to win if the offense didn't sputter. The defense gave up 19 points, that should be enough to win a game with one of the league's best offenses.,

But u like you, I have a brain and don't blindly blame one side of the ball for the failure. Only an idiot would blame the Super Bowl loss on Belichick's failings to build a defense when the offense only scored 17 points in that game with some of the most costly mistakes in the game coming from that side of the ball.

You did and I will find the post if its still there and it should be. Last years draft. I questioned whether BB would put Bradys life in the hands of a rookie LT. At the time, I didnt bother to say anything after Light was resigned.

The moral of the story is to clean up your own yard before attempting to clean up somebody elses.

I may have said that the Pats may put Solder in as a starter because they won't be able to re-sign Light because a team like KC would overpay for him. But I never said the Pats should not try to re-sign Light. If I said that Light was as good as gone it was because I thought someone would pay for his services, not that the Pats shouldn't resign him. I didn't know that Light would take a signficant home town discount to end his career with the Pats. Most players don't. I have always been one of the biggest Matt Light defender.

Put up or shut up. Provide the quote.

I am not wrong about the constant trading down hurting this team. The lunch pail approach has run its course. The Woodheads and Edelmans are great stories, they really are.

The Pats are getting beat by better players.

Well, you were really vindicated by that assertion with the Pats going to the Super Bowl and losing in the last minute. If the Pats changed their strategy, they would have not only won that game, but won the Super Duper Bowl and the Awesome Bowl. The Pats were the second best team in the league last year and if Gronk and Mankins were healthy, they might have been the best team in the league.

Sorry, Belichick has 3 rings, 5 Super Bowl appearances, 6 AFC Championship appearances, 9 AFC East titles, 9 straight years of double digit regular season wins, the only coach to win all 18 regular season games in a season, etc. I don't know where there is any way you can trash his strategy for building a team.

What do Bobby Griers draft picks have to do with today?

You are the one who brought it up. Besides, Bobby Grier didn't do the Pats' drafting in 1982 or 1977. I showed three drafts where the Pats where the Pats had two first rounders and two second rounders and the Pats only hit 25% of the time. Having a lot of high round draft picks do not guarantee success at those picks.

 

[Rob0729]

I have no shortage of constructive criticisms regarding play calling, player utilization and personnel myself.

But that wasn't the question.

Both the '07 and '11 teams were one play from winning the Super Bowl. We all know that one failed catch or one failed stop in each of the games by heart.

If the catch or stop had been made, would you really be decrying Belichick's ability having "only" won 5 Super Bowls in the last 10 years?

The teams would have been no different - it just boils down to that one play.

Because Belichick "only" won 3 Super Bowls and "only" had the team one play away from 2 more, you REALLY feel that he's lost his mojo?

That is the stupidity of most of the negative people on this board. They look at a close loss in the Super Bowl as justification to claim that Belichick is a failure in some area.

Look at the Packers. They have a QB who currently is arguably as good as Brady, are considered very good drafters and even drafted the guy most of complainers point to when they want to complain about Belichick whiffing in the draft (Clay Matthews), had big names on defense, and universally was considered the best team in the NFL last year right up until they lost to the Giants. Even with all their great drafting, a QB on par with Brady, and big names on defense; they got blown out by the Giants and gave up nearly twice as many points to the Giants than the Pats' defense who people argue was a failure and the reason the Pats lost the Super Bowl.

 

[Marqui]

Actually, you can include the Colts.

Good point. And while Will Smith isn't elite year in and year out, he had 13 sacks the year NO won and played at a high level for them that year. And GB had Mathews. To say having good pass rushers doesn't give you the best chance to win SBs these days is just silly to me.

 

[DEVIOUS 1]

That is the stupidity of most of the negative people on this board. They look at a close loss in the Super Bowl as justification to claim that Belichick is a failure in some area.

Look at the Packers. They have a QB who currently is arguably as good as Brady, are considered very good drafters and even drafted the guy most of complainers point to when they want to complain about Belichick whiffing in the draft (Clay Matthews), had big names on defense, and universally was considered the best team in the NFL last year right up until they lost to the Giants. Even with all their great drafting, a QB on par with Brady, and big names on defense; they got blown out by the Giants and gave up nearly twice as many points to the Giants than the Pats' defense who people argue was a failure and the reason the Pats lost the Super Bowl.

I read through this whole thread. This Triumph guy has been "Felgerised".

Don't reason with entitled and stupid. You'll only feel like a dog chasing his own tail.

 

[Deus Irae]

I read through this whole thread. This Triumph guy has been "Felgerised".

Don't reason with entitled and stupid. You'll only feel like a dog chasing his own tail.

Triumph has become like Maverick. That's why I put him on ignore a little while back. I've seen that train wreck often enough that I don't need to see it again.

 

[Triumph]

Where did I say the Pats' defense did nothing wrong. I said the defense failed on the last drive, but they did play well enough through the entire game to win if the offense didn't sputter. The defense gave up 19 points, that should be enough to win a game with one of the league's best offenses.,

Manning had a 75% completion percentage for the WHOLE game.

The NE pass defense was one of the worst in the NFL. Pitt, NYG and Balt exposed them. Again, NE had the lead in the 4th quarter only to watch it slip away and lose.

But u like you, I have a brain and don't blindly blame one side of the ball for the failure

.

Right. Youre blaming the offense for not scoring enough points.

Guess what? Brady is going to have more bad games in the future. Defenses are going to knock him down and frustrate him. Knock him off his spot. Get ready.

Only an idiot would blame the Super Bowl loss on Belichick's failings to build a defense when the offense only scored 17 points in that game with some of the most costly mistakes in the game coming from that side of the ball.

Yeah, 12 men on the field was pretty minor.

I may have said that the Pats may put Solder in as a starter because they won't be able to re-sign Light because a team like KC would overpay for him. But I never said the Pats should not try to re-sign Light. If I said that Light was as good as gone it was because I thought someone would pay for his services, not that the Pats shouldn't resign him. I didn't know that Light would take a signficant home town discount to end his career with the Pats. Most players don't. I have always been one of the biggest Matt Light defender.

Put up or shut up. Provide the quote.

I cant find it.

The search feature wont go back that far.

Well, you were really vindicated by that assertion with the Pats going to the Super Bowl and losing in the last minute. If the Pats changed their strategy, they would have not only won that game, but won the Super Duper Bowl and the Awesome Bowl. The Pats were the second best team in the league last year and if Gronk and Mankins were healthy, they might have been the best team in the league.

The pass defense still would not have held up and it doesnt change the fact that the Pats are getting beat by better talent.

Pitts WRs are better than the NE DBs, So are the Giants WRs. The Ravens had the Pats on the ropes.

Sorry, Belichick has 3 rings, 5 Super Bowl appearances, 6 AFC Championship appearances, 9 AFC East titles, 9 straight years of double digit regular season wins, the only coach to win all 18 regular season games in a season, etc. I don't know where there is any way you can trash his strategy for building a team.

Brady has a few seasons left.

By all means trade down and get more picks.

You are the one who brought it up. Besides, Bobby Grier didn't do the Pats' drafting in 1982 or 1977. I showed three drafts where the Pats where the Pats had two first rounders and two second rounders and the Pats only hit 25% of the time. Having a lot of high round draft picks do not guarantee success at those picks.

Again, what do those drafts have to do with this draft? Oly and idiot would think that using both 1st round picks would automatically result in 2 busts.

 

[BlueThunder]

Felgerised...hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Ron Sellers]

I am curious: is there any historical precedent to a team trading up in the first round, and then winning the Super Bowl as a result that year?

 

[Rob0729]

Manning had a 75% completion percentage for the WHOLE game.

The NE pass defense was one of the worst in the NFL. Pitt, NYG and Balt exposed them. Again, NE had the lead in the 4th quarter only to watch it slip away and lose.

The Giants' offense scored 19 points vs. the Pats in that game. During the playoffs, they averaged 25.75 PPG. The Pats gave up the fewest points to the Giants' offense in the entire playoffs. But hey, games are won and lost on QB completion percentage and not points.

.

Right. Youre blaming the offense for not scoring enough points.

Guess what? Brady is going to have more bad games in the future. Defenses are going to knock him down and frustrate him. Knock him off his spot. Get ready.

No I blame both sides of the ball unlike you. I just state that this offense should overcome the defense giving up 19 points.

I am not disputing that the Pats' defense has to get better, but that doesn't mean that the Pats have to change strategy to do it.

Yeah, 12 men on the field was pretty minor.

I said "most of the costly mistakes". But I agree that if the Pats drafted Clay Matthews instead of trading down, that penalty would have never happened.

I cant find it.

The search feature wont go back that far.

LOL! Yah, ok! Yes, but you remember it. Funny, I found a post back on April 29, 2011 when I mentioned Matt Light. You can see it here:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...mendously-high-ceiling-page4.html#post2532265

The pass defense still would not have held up and it doesnt change the fact that the Pats are getting beat by better talent.

Pitts WRs are better than the NE DBs, So are the Giants WRs. The Ravens had the Pats on the ropes.

And if "ifs" and "buts' were candy and nuts...

Brady has a few seasons left.

By all means trade down and get more picks.

The Pats won 11 games and with a mediocre QB in Matt Cassell in 2008. But by all means ignore the facts.

Brady may have as much as 4-5 seasons left playing at a high level. By the time he retires, who ever the Pats draft in two weeks may be gone to free agency since four years is the longest rookie contract possible.

Again, what do those drafts have to do with this draft? Oly and idiot would think that using both 1st round picks would automatically result in 2 busts.

Again, YOU BROUGHT UP THOSE PICKS, NOT ME! And it is good historical evidence that having multiple picks in the first two rounds does not guarantee you that you will get impact players. The draft is a crap shoot no matter where you draft.

 

[Triumph]

The Giants' offense scored 19 points vs. the Pats in that game. During the playoffs, they averaged 25.75 PPG. The Pats gave up the fewest points to the Giants' offense in the entire playoffs. But hey, games are won and lost on QB completion percentage and not points

The Giants defense allowed less points. The better defense won.

BB told Kraft when he was hired that defense wins championships. The Pats hadnt won a post season game in 3 seasons until they crushed the pitiful Broncos. They were damn lucky to beat the Ravens.

No I blame both sides of the ball unlike you. I just state that this offense should overcome the defense giving up 19 points.

I am not disputing that the Pats' defense has to get better, but that doesn't mean that the Pats have to change strategy to do it.

Better players are going to fix it. Picking the right players in the high rounds.

The Pats defense has been broken for a long time.

I said "most of the costly mistakes". But I agree that if the Pats drafted Clay Matthews instead of trading down, that penalty would have never happened.

Mayo is solid, but cant hold a candle to Mathews.

Remember the TD pass play in the endzone of the SB where Mayo could have knocked the ball away if he turned and looked?

LOL! Yah, ok! Yes, but you remember it. Funny, I found a post back on April 29, 2011 when I mentioned Matt Light. You can see it here:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...mendously-high-ceiling-page4.html#post2532265

OK you didnt say Matt Light is a goner. I made the whole thing up.

And if "ifs" and "buts' were candy and nuts...

They are all truths.

The Pats won 11 games and with a mediocre QB in Matt Cassell in 2008. But by all means ignore the facts.

Brady may have as much as 4-5 seasons left playing at a high level. By the time he retires, who ever the Pats draft in two weeks may be gone to free agency since four years is the longest rookie contract possible.

The odds arent good that Brady will play all those seasons without injury.

In four years the Pats couldnt sign some players to new contracts. Win today with a HOF QB and HC.

Again, YOU BROUGHT UP THOSE PICKS, NOT ME! And it is good historical evidence that having multiple picks in the first two rounds does not guarantee you that you will get impact players. The draft is a crap shoot no matter where you draft.

I didnt bring up any picks. I posted a list from Pats Pulpit with info about NE drafts.

Top drafts picks that failed from a different front office have no bearing whatsover today.

 

[BTTA]

2009, Pats vs. the rest of the NFL.

Our 2009 draft, without a first round pick, vs. the rest of the NFL's first round class. They get 32 picks before we pick, then we rejoin the draft in progress and pick our 12 players through seven rounds.

A look back at the 2009 NFL Draft's first round | National Football Post

Scout.com: The Patriots 2009 Draft Class

 

[Rob0729]

The Giants defense allowed less points. The better defense won.

BB told Kraft when he was hired that defense wins championships. The Pats hadnt won a post season game in 3 seasons until they crushed the pitiful Broncos. They were damn lucky to beat the Ravens.

First, the Giants defense gave up 17 points, the Pats defense gave up 19 points. Let's not act like the Pats defense gave up two TDs more than the Giants' defense. And the Giants' defense had the luxury of going against the Pats with their second best receiver (possibly the best) and best o-lineman being far less than 100%.

Second, by your logic, the Giants' offense was better than the Pats offense too. The Giants' offense scored 19 points, the Pats' offense scored 17 points.

Third, when Belichick joined the Pats in 2000, defenses did win championships. But that was a different

Better players are going to fix it. Picking the right players in the high rounds.

The Pats defense has been broken for a long time.

Better players are going to fix it, but drafting players in higher rounds is not a magical fix. If there isn't a player the Pats value at the spot, they should reach just to make a pick.

Reports were that the Pats would have picked both McCourty and Dowling with picks they traded away if they couldn't pick, but they traded down and drafted them anyway. Would McCourty and Dowling be better players if they were drafted with the Pats' original picks rather than picks after they traded down. Also, many mock drafts had the Pats drafting Darius Butler in the first, but the Pats drafted him in the second and the Pats were hailed of getting a steal at the time.

The Pats' defense isn't as broken as you intimate. They gave up a lot of garbage time yards during the season to make their defense look worse and they didn't give up more than 20 points in a game in the playoffs. It does need improvement, but there are a lot of young players on this team who could get a lot better.

Mayo is solid, but cant hold a candle to Mathews.

Remember the TD pass play in the endzone of the SB where Mayo could have knocked the ball away if he turned and looked?

So you are saying that a player drafted 26th in the draft is a better player than a player drafted 10th in the draft? Which side are you arguing in this point. If both guys were in the same draft and drafted in the same spot they were drafted, this is a strong case to trade down which is against your arguments.

This is a strong argument for the Pats to trade down and that high draft picks are overrated.

OK you didnt say Matt Light is a goner. I made the whole thing up.

Apparently so.

They are all truths.

You need to buy a dictionary because you are confusing the definition of opinions and truths.

The odds arent good that Brady will play all those seasons without injury.

Yes, because Brady is soooooo injury prone. Odds are good that Brady will play all those seasons without injuries or at least injuries that sideline him. Other than when he tore his ACL, Brady has never missed a game and the new rules that protect the QB will keep QBs in general healthy with longer careers.

In four years the Pats couldnt sign some players to new contracts. Win today with a HOF QB and HC.

Resign some? Yes. All? No, if all four live up to their draft position.

I didnt bring up any picks. I posted a list from Pats Pulpit with info about NE drafts.

Ok, you didn't bring up those picks. You just listed those picks and highlighted those picks in red, but really didn't want anyone to look at them any other way except in your biased way that Belichick blows drafts by trading down.

Top drafts picks that failed from a different front office have no bearing whatsover today.

When there is a trend that drafting 4 times in the first two rounds does not produce four solid players, it does have bearing.

Ok, this is getting stupid. I will let you have the last word.

I have already been on record that the Pats could trade up in the first round this year if they like someone who won't fall to them at 27. But they could also use all four picks or follow the trend of trading into future years. I am just arguing the Pats' strategy is no better or worse than most teams' strategies. There are a lot of bad teams with a lot of high first round draft picks on it.

 

[Rob0729]

2009, Pats vs. the rest of the NFL.

Our 2009 draft, without a first round pick, vs. the rest of the NFL's first round class. They get 32 picks before we pick, then we rejoin the draft in progress and pick our 12 players through seven rounds.

A look back at the 2009 NFL Draft's first round | National Football Post

Scout.com: The Patriots 2009 Draft Class

Wow! In hindsight, the 2009 first round sucked overall. Yes, there were several good players around where the Pats' picked (Clay Matthews, Vontae Davis who was picked a pick before the Pats would have draft and could have been their pick if he dropped one spot), but most of the first round were disapointments or outright busts.

Actually if you go back to 2008, other than Mayo and maybe one of two others, the first round was devoid of really good defensive players. Chris Long, Glenn Dorcey, Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey, Sederick Ellis, and Keith Rivers were all drafted before Mayo and all are either busts or disappointments. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is a streaky player who was drafted in the first round. Aqib Talib is a good player who had a down year last and a turd off the field that might affect his ability to play.

 

[JoeSixPat]

They are all truths.

Again - the only thing stopping the Patriots from having 5 Super Bowls in 10 years was TWO plays - one in each of the most recent Super Bowls

None of what you stated in all the would be any different had those two plays gone differently... if a fingertip catch had been dropped, if a Welker grab had been caught... if a tipped ball had been just a bit closer to Gronkowski... etc. etc...

None of that would have altered Belichick's previous draft picks or strategy or free agent moves.

So answer this one question - if those two plays turn out differently - ARE YOU STILL AS CRITICAL OF BELICHICK'S DRAFT STRATEGY?

I'll give you credit if you do - because at least you'd be consistent.

You'd be the only Patriot fan in the world complaining about only winning 5 Super Bowls in 10 years affirming the organization of the Dynasty of all Dynasties - but you'd be consistent.

It's amazing how two plays involving a funny shaped ball can change fickle fan's perceptions

 

[Triumph]

Again - the only thing stopping the Patriots from having 5 Super Bowls in 10 years was TWO plays - one in each of the most recent Super Bowls

None of what you stated in all the would be any different had those two plays gone differently... if a fingertip catch had been dropped, if a Welker grab had been caught... if a tipped ball had been just a bit closer to Gronkowski... etc. etc...

None of that would have altered Belichick's previous draft picks or strategy or free agent moves.

So answer this one question - if those two plays turn out differently - ARE YOU STILL AS CRITICAL OF BELICHICK'S DRAFT STRATEGY?

I'll give you credit if you do - because at least you'd be consistent.

You'd be the only Patriot fan in the world complaining about only winning 5 Super Bowls in 10 years affirming the organization of the Dynasty of all Dynasties - but you'd be consistent.

It's amazing how two plays involving a funny shaped ball can change fickle fan's perceptions

Heres a simple exercise.

How many 1st round draft picks have the Pats blown with BB?

How many late round draft picks have been a waste?

If youre going to trade down for late picks and they bust, what good was trading down from a 1st round draft slot where youve been the most successful?

And, trading into the 2nd round from the 1st has been a 50 - 50 proposition.

Bad drafting and bad use of draft picks have cost the Pats 2 Super Bowls. Maybe 3 if you included 2006 AFCC vs the Colts. The year they picked Chad Jackson.

 

[JackBauer]

Mayo is solid, but cant hold a candle to Mathews

Mayo > Matthews

 

[Sfpat]

Mayo > Matthews

You're referring to one-trick pony Matthews who gets blown up in the run game. And how many sacks did he get last year (answer 6 sacks and 37 tackles)? With those stats here in NE everyone would be calling him a bust and demanding he be run out of town.

Being a good defensive player is more than making 6 plays a year.

 

[Rob0729]

Again - the only thing stopping the Patriots from having 5 Super Bowls in 10 years was TWO plays - one in each of the most recent Super Bowls

None of what you stated in all the would be any different had those two plays gone differently... if a fingertip catch had been dropped, if a Welker grab had been caught... if a tipped ball had been just a bit closer to Gronkowski... etc. etc...

None of that would have altered Belichick's previous draft picks or strategy or free agent moves.

So answer this one question - if those two plays turn out differently - ARE YOU STILL AS CRITICAL OF BELICHICK'S DRAFT STRATEGY?

I'll give you credit if you do - because at least you'd be consistent.

You'd be the only Patriot fan in the world complaining about only winning 5 Super Bowls in 10 years affirming the organization of the Dynasty of all Dynasties - but you'd be consistent.

It's amazing how two plays involving a funny shaped ball can change fickle fan's perceptions

There is a simple fact that there are people on this board who were almost rooting for the Pats to fail in the playoffs so they could win their own Super Bowl which I call the "I Told You So Bowl". These are the same people who are quite when the Pats are winning, but come out in full force after a loss blaming Belichick for drafting or not getting so and so as a free agent or whatever. They would rather be right than have the Pats win.

The simple truth is you can blame the last Super Bowl loss on Gronk's ankle and Mankins' knee as much as any draft strategy that Belichick employed. As you point out that loss was on a razor thin margin with one or two plays being the difference. Again, if those two were healthy, I think the Pats would have won the Super Bowl and possibly by a decent margin.

The other Super Bowl against the Giants, it was even a closer margin because guys like Harrison, Samuel, and Meriweather were in position to make game winning plays and the bounce of the ball just went in the wrong direction. Again, if Samuel hauls in that INT, no one is talking about the Pats' ppoor drafting affecting that Super Bowl. Funny, for years post that Super Bowl, the Negative Nancys were blaming Josh McDaniels and his play calling, not the Pats' draft.