Content Post Bill Belichick's draft strategy.

[Sciz]

Look, youre the biggest Homer on this board bar none. Seriously.

I'm offended. I'm totally a bigger homer.

 

[Triumph]

I am curious: in your opinion what is a reasonable expectation for how often the Patriots should be winning the Super Bowl?

When they get there.

I dont expect it every season, but 7 years has gone by quick.

 

[DaBruinz]

Its about winning the SB. Not just getting there. Do you think the the Bills and Vikings franchises are thrilled they made it there and never won?

And what does that have to do with the fact you can't do math? Nothing. BTW, only 2 teams make it every year, so getting there is a BIG step. It means you then have a 50/50 chance of winning it all. Which is much better than a 1/32 chance you start off with.

Excuses. The Pats LOST. IF Samuel made the INT. IF Harrison had knocked the ball loose.

Only morons claim that FACTS are excuses. I have news for you. Mike Carey said after the game he should have made the call. But far be it from you to actually deal in facts. You can't even do simple math.

Coming from you thats very reassuring.

You told us that Taylor Price was up and coming too.

And he was. Fact is that the Pats had to make a hard choice because of injuries. Price was the odd man out because he didn't play on special teams. BB said he wanted to bring Price back, but Price was grabbed by Jacksonville. The book on him for the Pats is closed, but not on his career. But, again, you've already proven that facts aren't your strong suit.

OH, and my evaluations are more balanced than anything you've shown on this board, let alone this thread.

Who gives a crap who the Bengals drafted?

It should matter to you because the only way to truly evaluate the trade is to look at who the Bengals got for it. Sorry if that concept is beyond your limited abilities..

Youre the typical myopic NE Patriot homer who thinks that Belichick can so no wrong.

WOW, you are absolutely clueless. I have questioned Belichick on numerous occasions. Only ignorant people like yourself make the asinine claim that I think that BB can do no wrong. But that is typical when dealing with someone of such limited intelligence. You have to throw out something about the other person that it total BS because you can't actually deal in the facts.

 

[DaBruinz]

3 Super Bowls. I was at 2 of them. I typed 11 instead of 7. BFD.

It IS a BFD when you repeat yourself several other times before you acknowledge that you were talking out your arse. Fact is that you made an idiot of yourself in doing so. Especially since hitting 11 instead of 7 is more than just a simple typo. It shows a lack of math skills.

 

[DaBruinz]

Look, youre the biggest Homer on this board bar none. Seriously.

Suit up any stiff in a Patriots uniform and youll be here crowing how good a player he is.

Clearly you don't know wtf you are talking about. But that is typical of you. Do yourself a favor. Admit you were wrong and move on. Your continuous need to respond only makes you look even more pathetic.

 

[JoeSixPat]

When they get there.

I dont expect it every season, but 7 years has gone by quick.

That's a pretty thin argument... especially when Belichick has had them one play away from winning two additional Super Bowls in that 7 year period.

Ultimately there's only so much a coach or GM can do. The players need to accept responsibility for executing the plays, and stopping a catch or making one.

If two plays pan out differently that same coach has 5 Super Bowl rings in 10 years.

Would your point still be the same if those two plays had gone differently?

 

[Triumph]

I'm offended. I'm totally a bigger homer.

Not possible.

 

[Triumph]

And there are teams who haven't won in 30+ years. Yet you are *****ing and moaning like it's something that the Patriots are ENTITLED to. They aren't.

The fact is that you still haven't come up with anything close to resembling a rational argument for your stance.

Where have I said that anybody is entitled to a Super Bowl? Youre so full of BS as usual.

I question the trading down you jackass.

 

[Triumph]

Clearly you don't know wtf you are talking about. But that is typical of you. Do yourself a favor. Admit you were wrong and move on. Your continuous need to respond only makes you look even more pathetic.

No, its typical of you.

You told us that Taylor Price was ready to shine. You told me that Eric Warfield was a good CB when the Pats brought him in after I said he sucked axx. Yes YOU. He was about as good as your player evaluations.

You talk out of axx. Every Patriot was a good player according to you.

 

[Triumph]

That's a pretty thin argument... especially when Belichick has had them one play away from winning two additional Super Bowls in that 7 year period.

Ultimately there's only so much a coach or GM can do. The players need to accept responsibility for executing the plays, and stopping a catch or making one.

If two plays pan out differently that same coach has 5 Super Bowl rings in 10 years.

Would your point still be the same if those two plays had gone differently?

What happened to the NE high powered offense? It got shut down, both games.

And, the defense could not hold the lead. Thats why this Super Bowl loss was no where near as bad as 07 because you expected it to happen.

 

[Triumph]

It IS a BFD when you repeat yourself several other times before you acknowledge that you were talking out your arse. Fact is that you made an idiot of yourself in doing so. Especially since hitting 11 instead of 7 is more than just a simple typo. It shows a lack of math skills.

Where did I repeat my mistake?

Show me.

 

[Triumph]

And what does that have to do with the fact you can't do math? Nothing. BTW, only 2 teams make it every year, so getting there is a BIG step. It means you then have a 50/50 chance of winning it all. Which is much better than a 1/32 chance you start off with.

Thanks Pythagoras, I never knew that.

Only morons claim that FACTS are excuses. I have news for you. Mike Carey said after the game he should have made the call. But far be it from you to actually deal in facts. You can't even do simple math.

You are a Moron.

Heres some facts for you, Moron.

Mike Carey (American football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Under NFL rules, officials are required to stop play when a player is "in the grasp and control" of the defense.[14] Carey determined that "grasp and control" was never achieved since Manning's forward momentum did not stop.[14] Speaking about the play, Carey said, "I anticipated a sack. I didn't assume that was going to happen, but rarely do you see a quarterback escape when he's got that much weight on his back and being dragged by two or three guys who had a hold of him. I could see [Manning's] head was just straight ahead. He was trying to break free with desperation. Then all of a sudden he spun out and then he started to come right back at me."[14]

And he was. Fact is that the Pats had to make a hard choice because of injuries. Price was the odd man out because he didn't play on special teams. BB said he wanted to bring Price back, but Price was grabbed by Jacksonville. The book on him for the Pats is closed, but not on his career. But, again, you've already proven that facts aren't your strong suit.

OH, and my evaluations are more balanced than anything you've shown on this board, let alone this thread.

And yet you are rarely if ever correct about a player.

It should matter to you because the only way to truly evaluate the trade is to look at who the Bengals got for it. Sorry if that concept is beyond your limited abilities..

Hey Dumbass. Who might the Pats have drafted with that 5th round pick?

Ever think about that? No, of course not.

WOW, you are absolutely clueless. I have questioned Belichick on numerous occasions. Only ignorant people like yourself make the asinine claim that I think that BB can do no wrong. But that is typical when dealing with someone of such limited intelligence. You have to throw out something about the other person that it total BS because you can't actually deal in the facts.

You think you know everything. All anyone has to do is ask you if they dont believe it.

 

[bagwell368]

Not to mention this draft isn't very strong at the bottom end of round one.

Personally I would take a #3 this year and #1 next year for #27. I would even consider a #4 like we took in 2006. My latest mock for the Patriots makes me want to throw up with what we might end up taking with our #1s. I'd prefer, say, Bruce Irvin and a #1 next year than Shea McClellin.

Right. I feel the draft hits a weak spot from #24-32 inclusive. I think there are a lot of great players in the 2nd and into the early third this year. And if you like OG's, there are some very good ones to pick off in the 4th round.

Here is the sort of draft I'm hoping for this year:

Pats deal #27 to Jags for #36, 101, 142
Pats deal #48, 101 to St. Louis for #39
Pats deal #93, 142 to Denver for #87

#31: Josh Robinson CB
#36: Vinny Curry 3-4 OLB 4-3 DE
#39: Brandon Thompson NT/DT
#62: Trumaine Johnson FS/CB
#87: Kelechi Osemele OG/T

BTW, why are we just talking about the draft? What about trades, UDFA's, and FA's? BB staffs a team that wins double digits every year, so it's only natural that a lot of draft picks will fail. Did anyone remember that this last off season the Pats had the most cuts signed of any team. How about can BB be?

Question? Why is anybody feeding the troll?

 

[Rob0729]

What happened to the NE high powered offense? It got shut down, both games.

And, the defense could not hold the lead. Thats why this Super Bowl loss was no where near as bad as 07 because you expected it to happen.

So Gronkowski barely being able to walk and Mankins playing with a torn ACL had nothing to do with the Pats' offense being shut down? If the Pats draft the next Lawrence Taylor, he isn't going to be very effective with a high ankle sprain or torn ACL.

Dude, you should really stop. You are just making a fool of yourself unless you are just a troll who wants to stir up crap no matter how stupid you look. If you are the latter, you have achieved your goal.

 

[kudzif]

Couldn't agree more, Belichick has had 12 years and all he has ever done is win some lousy AFC Championships. Don't know why they keep him around.

People, when talking about Bill you have to think of him as two distinct people. There is Bill the coach ,and Bill the GM .The reason why we have won so much and done so well is that Bill the coach is arguably the best coach in the history of the game,so he makes up for the gross errors that he makes as a GM.A GM is judged by how good of a roster he compiles.The defense talent- wise since the old guard was phased out has been poor.Honestly, how many years does it take to make an averagely talented defense. In this era where defenses are not allowed to touch receivers why he does not realize that the only way to impact opposing offenses is through a pass rush.We have seen this up close and personal against the Giants twice , but still we do not put a premium on drafting pass rushers. Our secondary is a joke after goodness knows how many 1st and 2nd round draft picks .Judging football skill positions both sides of the ball is clearly a problem for Bill all we want is for him to get help.The people complaining don't want Bill gone we are not insane but he clearly needs help in his GM capacity.

 

[Rob0729]

People, when talking about Bill you have to think of him as two distinct people. There is Bill the coach ,and Bill the GM .The reason why we have won so much and done so well is that Bill the coach is arguably the best coach in the history of the game,so he makes up for the gross errors that he makes as a GM.A GM is judged by how good of a roster he compiles.The defense talent- wise since the old guard was phased out has been poor.Honestly, how many years does it take to make an averagely talented defense. In this era where defenses are not allowed to touch receivers why he does not realize that the only way to impact opposing offenses is through a pass rush.We have seen this up close and personal against the Giants twice , but still we do not put a premium on drafting pass rushers. Our secondary is a joke after goodness knows how many 1st and 2nd round draft picks .Judging football skill positions both sides of the ball is clearly a problem for Bill all we want is for him to get help.The people complaining don't want Bill gone we are not insane but he clearly needs help in his GM capacity.

When you have a high powered offense, you are likely to have a PERCEIVED horrible defense. The Pats' defense last yearwas far better than some give it credit for. A lot of the yards given up last year were in garbage time with the Pats protecting two, three, or even more TD leads in the fourth quarter.

The fact of the matter is the Pats never put a huge premium on monster pass rushers. It got them three championships.

It is also insanely clear that Belichick has done a much better job in recent years in drafting and free agency. People continue to look at two drafts and cherry picked players.

I love armchair GMs who think that they are smarter than Belichick. If we did what most of these people wanted, we would be talking about hoping to go over .500 next season and have a shot at the Wild Card because the Pats would have stayed where they were or even traded up to go after "stud" shiny toys like Vernon Gholston, Dez Bryant, Jerry Hughes, etc. For every Clay Matthews that everyone supposably wanted the Pats to take at the time (he is the modern day Woodstock where everyone say that they were at even though there are ten times more people who claim they were there than were actually there), there are plenty of busts people were high on and won't admit they were were wrong about.

 

[Triumph]

So Gronkowski barely being able to walk and Mankins playing with a torn ACL had nothing to do with the Pats' offense being shut down? If the Pats draft the next Lawrence Taylor, he isn't going to be very effective with a high ankle sprain or torn ACL.

Dude, you should really stop. You are just making a fool of yourself unless you are just a troll who wants to stir up crap no matter how stupid you look. If you are the latter, you have achieved your goal.

You need to find an excuse for the defense. Both Super Bowls.

And, looking stupid has never stopped you from posting. You led the Matt Light is as good as gone charge when Solder was drafted.

 

[Marqui]

The fact of the matter is the Pats never put a huge premium on monster pass rushers. It got them three championships.

That's sort of disingenuous. McGinest was a beast pass rusher in college and Vrabel broke sack records in college. McG/Vrabel didn't happen to record a ton of sacks in the NFL but both were very good pass rushers that could put consistent pressure on the QB. McG has the all time post season sack record and we all saw what Vrabel was capable of in 07 when the defense was many times in rush mode.

Plus how the Pats won super bowls a decade ago is sort of irrelevant now. Since the passing rule changes 2 teams that do put a premium on pass rushers (Steelers/Giants) have 4 SBs while the Pats have none.

 

[AzPatsFan]

It's not about playmakers, it's about overall talent. The defense has been in a state of decline since 2007, and that should not be surprising to anyone. The old guard was gone or going, and the new blood was not up to the task of replacing it.

From 2005 on, when the team knew it was going to have to start looking for new defenders, here are the defensive draft picks and the round taken:

2005 - James Sanders (4), Ryan Claridge (5)
2006 - Jeremy Mincey (6), LeKevin Smith (6), Willie Andrews (7)
2007 - Brandon Meriweather (1), Kareem Brown (4), Justice Rogers (6), Mike Richardson (6), Oscar Lua (7)
2008 - Jerod Mayo (1), Terrence Wheatley (2), Shawn Crable (3), Jonathan Wilhite (4), Bo Ruud (6)
2009 - Patrick Chung (2), Ron Brace (2), Tyrone McKenzie (3), Myron Pryor (6)
2010 - Devin McCourty (1), Jermaine Cunningham (2), Brandon Spikes (2), Brandon Deaderick (7), Kade Weston (7)
2011 - Ras-I Dowling (2), Markell Carter (6), Malcolm Williams (7)

DraftHistory.com

That's only about 7 players who've truly flashed at, or near, starter level, for any real period of time, and 2 of the 7 aren't even on the team anymore.

From 2005-2007, BB was building the offense with high picks, and the defense with low picks, and that strategy meant that almost no new defensive players were being added to the team. The team was still being built with veterans, but the quality of free agent veterans was in decline because teams had gotten more adept at managing the salary cap (and the increases in the cap made such management easier).

2008 was the first defensive draft in years, and it turned out to be a major flop, as the only one of the 5 picks to be of any real quality was a top 10 overall pick, and the rest of the choices (2,3,4,6) washed out.

The jury is still out on 2009, but the early results don't look good. As of now, only Chung has established himself.

When you've got that level of struggle in the draft over that period of time, and you aren't making up the gap with great free agent signings, you're going to have problems. It's not about playmakers. It's about having very few true defensive draft hits in the last 7 drafts.

It was pointed out that it takes a long time to develop players for certain positions, eg, Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel. Jeremy Mincey became a starter and Probowl player 5 years after leaving the Pats.

 

[Deus Irae]

It was pointed out that it takes a long time to develop players for certain positions, eg, Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel. Jeremy Mincey became a starter and Probowl player 5 years after leaving the Pats.

What was "pointed out" was a lot of useless homerism, at least in terms of it holding out hope for the Patriots draftees. Of the players not bolded as starter/near starter, only Brace, Pryor and Cunningham remain from prior to last season's draft, so the 5 year plan isn't in the cards for the clear majority of the 'failed' Patriots picks.

Now, if you'd like to hold out some desperate hope regarding one of that trio becoming the next Vrabel or Bruschi, you go for it.