Content Post Bill Belichick's draft strategy.

[Rob0729]

The Patriots have won more AFC Championships and Super Bowls than any other team in football during the Belichick era, if you want to be miserable about that then by all means be as miserable as you want. The Patriots found a way to get to the Super Bowl with a team that had serious flaws and I am not going to whine and cry about that, instead I enjoyed the play-offs and enjoyed the Super Bowl right up to the point where they lost at the end. I am also going to enjoy this offseason and coming season because they are going to be right in the thick of it once again. You can moan and b.tch and stomp your little feeties all you want but this a great franchise that maintains a level of success all other franchises would love to achieve but can't, if that makes you miserable then so be it. the fact that you didn't even recognize that they had won 3 Super Bowls and claimed they had won nothing this season shows just how poorly informed and myopic you really are, and nothing I say will ever make you look worse than your posts do.

That's the thing. Even if you look at the years since the Pats last won a Super Bowl, only five teams have done what the Pats have failed to do - win a Super Bowl.

- One team, the Colts, had Manning for 11 years and got one ring out of him and now are in total rebuild mode.
- Another team looks to be in danger of not getting another ring because of circumstances - The Saints.
- Another is a really old team potentially on the verge of collapse on the side of the ball that won them two championships because they didn't properly look to the future to get young - the Steelers.
- The Packers and Giants still look like strong contenders to get back to the big game, but the Packers are a pretty much a copy of the Pats in terms of personnel strengths and weakness and both have just as many holes as the Patriots.

 

[DaBruinz]

I will spell this out.

No super bowl championships in 11 seasons. How did the constant trading down help the Pats there? When Brady retires, everyone can say "hey, the Pats have 12 picks in the next draft!" Cinci fleeced BB out of 2 - 5th round picks for Stinko among the other draft fiasco's. Value my axx.

There comes a time, LIKE THIS DRAFT, when you can take advantage of having a HOF QB basically in his prime if you draft talent. Not reclamation projects and misfits.

But, if youre happy with AFCE championships by all means yours is the way to go.

Math isn't your strong suit. The Pats last won a championship in February 2005. That is only 7 years. Not 11.

What you FAIL to acknowledge is that the Pats also went to SBs in 2008 and 2012. They've been to 5 in 11 seasons. That is unprecedented in the Salary Cap era. Yet, you give them no credit for it. And they would have won in 2007 if Mike Carey had actually called Manning down for being "In the Grasp" the way he admitted he should have.

You're complaining about 2 fifth round picks to Cincy for Chad Johnson? I have news for you, the book isn't closed on that. I mean Robert Sands was just so AMAZING for the Bengals, right? OH wait. No he wasn't. In fact, he didn't even make their team.

You are a typical of the short-sighted, 20/20 hindsight fan who has to whine and complain about Belichick even though your success rate would be about 10% of Belichick's.

 

[DaBruinz]

Meriweather was a bust.
Chung sucks. He cant cover, but people here think hes the next Rodney Harrison.
Spikes is hot and cold.
Kaczur sucked.
Hobbs was the sorriest (worst) CB in the NFL - Peyton Manning
Sanders was a JAG.
Cassel - Cant Passel will be gone if he does not improve this year.
Brace
Butler
Chad Jackson

WOW. Talk about talking out your arse.

Meriweather wasn't a bust. Meriweather produced for 4 seasons.
Chung actually can cover. Maybe you should actually go back and watch the games instead of spewing idiocy. Particularly the ones against San Diego and Dallas.
Kaczur didn't suck. He was a decent starter for the Pats.
Sanders wasn't a JAG. He was an above average player.
Hobbs wasn't the sorriest Cb in the NFL.
Cassel led this team to an 11 win season.

You're inability to judge talent is only surpassed by your ineptitude with math.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The problem with the Pats defense is that they have lacked a true impact player for years now. In the immortal words of Rick Pitino, "Rodney Harrison/Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, or Richard Seymour are not walking through that door".

BB has tried to fill holes, he has made some serious swings and misses at DB. I think he made a major mistake not keeping Branch a few years ago (and of course in drafting Merriweather with the Branch pick).

But in the end, it all comes down to when its crunch time, the Pats do not have a guy on defense that will make a play. How many times did Rodney, Bruschi et al come up with the big play when the Pats needed it? That is what has been lacking, IF the defense had come up with 3 stops, the Pats would have 3 more titles.

So now the job is to find a playmaker on defense. Move up if you have to, NOBODY drafted after the 4th round is making the team, so do some bundling and get a playmaker. Of course, this will almost guarentee another trade back, pass of player X for an additional 3rd round pick that they trade for a future second round pick, that turns out to be Butler, Brace or any of the other busts that litter the Pats recent draft boards.

I don't disagree with your general points - though its worth pointing out that while Belichick's drafts haven't resulted in the players Belichick himself would prefer, if you look at the final teams' he's assembled you can't argue with the results.

That being said, let's not kid ourselves that last year's line up for example is the product of a master plan...

That's a point I'd argue with you - that no one drafted after the 4th round will make the team. Belichick shows often that he doesn't care where or whether one was drafted... show him you can play and he'll find a spot for you.

Aside from that I'd be all for Belichick moving up if there's a player he's convinced is worth it - but my guess is Belichick feels that with so many question marks for unproven rookies, he questions the value of trading 2 draft picks for 1 especially in the first few rounds.

 

[JoeSixPat]

There's a lot of nuances to Belichick's draft strategy - there's not "one" answer to this question.

Much is situational regarding the team's needs (yes they do factor in need) and available players, consideration of future drafts, and the high upside guys that might fall to him in the draft as he seldom has top 10 picks to work with.

We've seen Belichick take chances in the past, quite often with 2nd round picks or late 1st round picks.

My guess is that's in part to take a chance of getting a Top Tier talent - though one with enough question marks to allow them to fall.

The recent news that the Patriots are considering two players with character issues illustrates their potential interest in such players.

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet» Blog Archive » The Patriots are linked to a couple prospects with character questions

Of course part of their interest in such players is based on the premise that these players may fall significantly in the draft, so one need not assume these guys are considered 1st Round picks (though I think Bruce Irvin could be and I'm not overly scared off by his background. I AM scared by someone like Jenkins - but that being said, if he slides back in the draft like Ryan Mallet did and is available in the 3rd or 4th round, then why not take a flyer at such a guy?)

I think the fact that Belichick field he can field a contender every year even with a Frankenstein ensemble of defensive players and less than full strength at offense, he feels that he can take some chances in the draft.

As we've seen quite often those chances don't always pan out - but I place as much if not more blame on the players themselves than I do on the coach/GM as no team is immune to having players turn out to be busts.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you look at the starting lineup for the Pats in the last SB, 6 of the 11 offensive starters were free agent pickups or trades, 5 of the 11 defensive starters, same thing. So 50% of your starting 22 were NOT Patriot's draft choices. That to me is pretty pitiful drafting, I don't expect the draft process to change until Belichick leaves. All the mediots and Koolaid drinkers will marvel at Bellichick's draft pick mastery as he continues to draft schlubs in the second round instead of using the two first round picks we seem to have every year and never use. Reminds me of the Emporer's new clothes.

You seem to have issues with math as well.

Super Bowl XLVI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That shows the starting line-ups for the Pats.

Offense: 6 of 11 were drafted and a 7th was a UDFA that they developed:
Brady, Light, Mankins, Vollmer, Branch, Gronkowski, and BJGE (UDFA)

Defense: 6 of 11 were drafted and a 7th was a UDFA they developed:
Wilfork, Love (UDFA), Deaderick, Mayo, Spikes, McCourty, Chung

So, 12 of 22 starters were drafted by the Pats and two were signed as a UDFAs immediately after their respective drafts. 14 of 22. That's better than 63%. Not the 50% you claim.

What is pitiful is people like yourself knocking the Pats drafting when you can't even get your facts correct.

 

[DaBruinz]

You can spin the silver lining thing about losing the SB all you want.

The bottom line is that the Pats are just the other 31 teams that did not win a Championship last season with the exception of having a lower draft pick. Thats it.

See, that is where you are wrong and such an over-generalization makes you look stupid.

The Pats have a lot more going for than than the other 30 teams. This is one of the things that you down-right ignore. The Pats haven't had any major losses to the team. That MAY happen if Light or Waters decide to retire, but I don't see that happening right now. The CORE of the offense and defense are still there. The defense is still plenty young and has been getting better, despite claims to the contrary. The offense looks like it will be improved. Particularly with a healthy Gronk and a true 3rd TE.

Do yourself a favor. Save your whining and moaning for when something bad actually happens to the Pats. Not for when they've been good..

 

[DaBruinz]

Those that have 2 players picked out in the first round save yourself the frustration.


From Pats Pulpit.


0
The number of draft day trades the Patriots made in 2004. It is the only year in the Bill Belichick era that New England has not engaged in any draft-day trades.
2
The number of times in the Bill Belichick era the Patriots have drafted back-to-back players from the same school (2002: Rohan Davey and Jarvis Green, LSU; 2010: Jermaine Cunningham and Brandon Spikes, Florida).
2
The number of offensive players drafted by the Patriots in the first round on the current roster (2005, Logan Mankins; 2011, Nate Solder).
3
The number of defensive players drafted by the Patriots in the first round on the current roster (2004: Vince Wilfork; 2008: Jerod Mayo; 2010: Devin McCourty).
3
The number of times the Patriots drafted at least two players in the first and second round of the same draft (1998, 1982 and 1977).
13
The number of times since 2000 that New England has traded down in draft-day exchanges (See next page for trade breakdowns).
15
The number of times since 2000 that New England has traded up in draft-day exchanges (See next page for trade breakdowns).
18
The number of times since 2000 that New England has made draft-day trades involving players and/or future draft considerations (See next page for trade breakdowns).
18
The number of draft-day trades New England has made combined in the previous three drafts (2009-2011), with seven in 2009 and 2010 and four in 2011.
46
The number of draft-day trades by Bill Belichick in his 12 drafts with the Patriots. 1999 The last time New England made two first round selections - Nos. 17 and 28.
​

2003 was the last time the Pats made two first round selections.
Vince Wilfork (21) and Ben Watson (32).

Facts are an amazing thing. Would help you to check on them occasionally.

 

[Fencer]

See, that is where you are wrong and such an over-generalization makes you look stupid.

The Pats have a lot more going for than than the other 30 teams. This is one of the things that you down-right ignore. The Pats haven't had any major losses to the team. That MAY happen if Light or Waters decide to retire, but I don't see that happening right now. The CORE of the offense and defense are still there. The defense is still plenty young and has been getting better, despite claims to the contrary. The offense looks like it will be improved. Particularly with a healthy Gronk and a true 3rd TE.

Do yourself a favor. Save your whining and moaning for when something bad actually happens to the Pats. Not for when they've been good..

Pats = Super Bowl losing team.

Significant players in danger of not returning (other than cases of clear upgrade) are:

• A productive pass rusher (definitely gone).
• A Pro Bowl pass rusher who was injured before the post season (probably returning, but will he be as good)?
• A borderline Pro Bowl left tackle (but an All-Pro right tackle is coming back).
• A Pro Bowl guard (but he's expected to return)
• A productive but pedestrian (wordplay fully appropriate) running back.

That's a manageable set of losses to worry about, especially with nobody else significant in the aging/declining range, with McCourty a good bet to rebound from his sophomore slump, with Dowling (at least to start with) coming back from injury -- and with the Super Bowl loss having happened with a reasonable set of injuries to some of the team's best active players, such as Gronk and Mankins.

Koppen is not included, because he was injured substantially all season. However, he does count as depth that is lost from the start of last season, if he doesn't return.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, the NE SB victories were because NE had better players.

And MANY of those players were FREE AGENTS, not draftees.. Look it up.

 

[DaBruinz]

If getting to the SB and losing is what its all about then Hoorah!

The Pats havent won a SB in 7 seasons. If youre happy about that good for you.

And there are teams who haven't won in 30+ years. Yet you are *****ing and moaning like it's something that the Patriots are ENTITLED to. They aren't.

The fact is that you still haven't come up with anything close to resembling a rational argument for your stance.

 

[DaBruinz]

Meriweather wasn a fit in Chicago either. If Meriweather was so good then why isnt he still here? Dont the Pats need good DBs?

Just how good is Chung? NE had one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL last season and he played a huge part. Chung has never lived up to pre draft hype as some fierce hitter.

All the players you mentioned are JAGs or Busts. Theres not even 1 standout player among them.

Chung missed 8 games and part of a 9th. How can you say that he played a huge part in that when he wasn't on the field for more than half the defensive plays during the regular season??

 

[DaBruinz]

Meriweather wasn a fit in Chicago either. If Meriweather was so good then why isnt he still here? Dont the Pats need good DBs?

Just how good is Chung? NE had one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL last season and he played a huge part. Chung has never lived up to pre draft hype as some fierce hitter.

All the players you mentioned are JAGs or Busts. Theres not even 1 standout player among them.

First off, YOU are the one who mentioned them to begin with, not MoLewisRocks. And it's your ignorant opinion that claims they are Jags or Busts. Intelligent people know otherwise. You haven't proven a damn thing.

 

[DaBruinz]

The problem with the Pats defense is that they have lacked a true impact player for years now. In the immortal words of Rick Pitino, "Rodney Harrison/Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, or Richard Seymour are not walking through that door".

BB has tried to fill holes, he has made some serious swings and misses at DB. I think he made a major mistake not keeping Branch a few years ago (and of course in drafting Merriweather with the Branch pick).

But in the end, it all comes down to when its crunch time, the Pats do not have a guy on defense that will make a play. How many times did Rodney, Bruschi et al come up with the big play when the Pats needed it? That is what has been lacking, IF the defense had come up with 3 stops, the Pats would have 3 more titles.

So now the job is to find a playmaker on defense. Move up if you have to, NOBODY drafted after the 4th round is making the team, so do some bundling and get a playmaker. Of course, this will almost guarentee another trade back, pass of player X for an additional 3rd round pick that they trade for a future second round pick, that turns out to be Butler, Brace or any of the other busts that litter the Pats recent draft boards.

Bruschi, Harrison, etc, were play-makers because of the team they had around them. The issue is more that the team has had to field sub-par players (Brown, Barrett, Ihedigbo, White, Underwood, etc) when, in the past, there was a legitimate back-up who would have stepped up and not missed a beat. This is something the Pats have been dealing with since the end of 2007.. They've had holes at RDE, Safety, CB, and ROLB, that haven't been filled yet, though the CB situation is looking much better than it has in the past. The situation at safety, RDE and ROLB haven't been settled yet, though Trevor Scott could step up and be that ROLB the Pats have missed for a long time. Steven Gregory could be the FS the Pats have been missing since Eugene Wilson lost his confidence after two straight injuries in the SBs.

When you look back, Tedy Bruschi didn't become BRUSCHI until 2003 when he had Ted Washington, McGinest, Vrabel, and Harrison on the team. And the same can be said for Vrabel. He didn't break out until he came here to a team that had McGinest, Seymour, and Milloy on the team.

BTW, BB wanted to keep Branch. Branch is the one who forced the issue, claiming that he'd play out his contract only to renege on that after the draft was over. I really wish people would stop blaming BB for that when it falls solely on Branch and Branch alone.

 

[signbabybrady]

DaBruinz is on fire. Pointing out all the mistakes in the post. Keep it up.

 

[scout]

No, the NE SB victories were because NE had better players.

The St. Louis Rams and most knowledgeable football people would not agree.

 

[Triumph]

Math isn't your strong suit. The Pats last won a championship in February 2005. That is only 7 years. Not 11.

What you FAIL to acknowledge is that the Pats also went to SBs in 2008 and 2012. They've been to 5 in 11 seasons. That is unprecedented in the Salary Cap era. Yet, you give them no credit for it.

Its about winning the SB. Not just getting there. Do you think the the Bills and Vikings franchises are thrilled they made it there and never won?

And they would have won in 2007 if Mike Carey had actually called Manning down for being "In the Grasp" the way he admitted he should have.

Excuses. The Pats LOST. IF Samuel made the INT. IF Harrison had knocked the ball loose.

You're complaining about 2 fifth round picks to Cincy for Chad Johnson? I have news for you, the book isn't closed on that.

Coming from you thats very reassuring.

You told us that Taylor Price was up and coming too.

I mean Robert Sands was just so AMAZING for the Bengals, right? OH wait. No he wasn't. In fact, he didn't even make their team.

Who gives a crap who the Bengals drafted?

You are a typical of the short-sighted, 20/20 hindsight fan who has to whine and complain about Belichick even though your success rate would be about 10% of Belichick's.

Youre the typical myopic NE Patriot homer who thinks that Belichick can so no wrong.

 

[Triumph]

The Patriots have won more AFC Championships and Super Bowls than any other team in football during the Belichick era, if you want to be miserable about that then by all means be as miserable as you want. The Patriots found a way to get to the Super Bowl with a team that had serious flaws and I am not going to whine and cry about that, instead I enjoyed the play-offs and enjoyed the Super Bowl right up to the point where they lost at the end. I am also going to enjoy this offseason and coming season because they are going to be right in the thick of it once again. You can moan and b.tch and stomp your little feeties all you want but this a great franchise that maintains a level of success all other franchises would love to achieve but can't, if that makes you miserable then so be it. the fact that you didn't even recognize that they had won 3 Super Bowls and claimed they had won nothing this season shows just how poorly informed and myopic you really are, and nothing I say will ever make you look worse than your posts do.

I didnt enjoy the Ravens game. Im glad you did though. That game more or less set the stage for what happened in the Super Bowl. Same story.The NE couldnt stop the pass. You could see the writing on the wall.

Nobody is stomping any feet about losing Super Bowls. Just pointing out the truth. Its very disappointing the Pats lost, but they clearly were not the better team. I'll always wonder if draft picks that were traded away would have made the difference though. To me its about taking advantage of Tom Brady now, when hes healthy.

I knew the Pats have won 3 Super Bowls. I was at 2 of them. I typed 11 instead of 7. BFD.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Its about winning the SB. Not just getting there.

I am curious: in your opinion what is a reasonable expectation for how often the Patriots should be winning the Super Bowl?

 

[Triumph]

WOW. Talk about talking out your arse.

Meriweather wasn't a bust. Meriweather produced for 4 seasons.
Chung actually can cover. Maybe you should actually go back and watch the games instead of spewing idiocy. Particularly the ones against San Diego and Dallas.
Kaczur didn't suck. He was a decent starter for the Pats.
Sanders wasn't a JAG. He was an above average player.
Hobbs wasn't the sorriest Cb in the NFL.
Cassel led this team to an 11 win season.

You're inability to judge talent is only surpassed by your ineptitude with math.

Look, youre the biggest Homer on this board bar none. Seriously.

Suit up any stiff in a Patriots uniform and youll be here crowing how good a player he is.