PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Content Post Bill Belichick's draft strategy.

This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.
Status
Not open for further replies.
We know the Pats can get in the post season and with luck get to the Super Bowl.

Luck has played a huge role in every playoff and Super Bowl of the past twenty years. It's an inescapable, essential part of the formula, for every team that goes on a run. We can't draft, free agent sign, scheme, or execute ourselves out of that fact.

It's been a glorious run in the past eleven years, and looks like it will continue to be. The sun is shining. The Pats are amazing. Enjoy it.
 
It feels like 11 seasons and will be 11 seasons on this current draft course. The Pats have an opportunity to add 4 good players that can help the team win a Championship now. We know the Pats can get in the post season and with luck get to the Super Bowl.

The Pats will probably trade a 1st and a 2nd for more late picks in this draft and the next one. The premise is to try to get a great player after round 4 so the rest of the NFL can marvel at what a deal you got. Always looking for that next Tom Brady.

Your assuming that the Patriots can get to the post season without BB's draft strategy. They are perennial playoff contenders, why don't they just make their picks. Versus, They are perennial playoff contenders because of BB's draft strategy. I'm going with BB.
 
Huh? Was February 2005 11 years ago? Did I go to bed last night and wake up in 2016?

The Pats went to the Super Bowl last year. They went in the 2007 season. They have three

Based on your standards, only the Giants, Steelers, Colts, and Packers have a good draft strategy.

There are about 28 other teams in the league who would have been happy with settling to get to the Championship Game last year. The Pats had the lead in the Super Bowl with under 2 minutes left in the game just a few months ago. If Gronk and Mankins were healthy, the Pats might have won. And you want the Pats to blow up their strategy because they are massive underachievers.

Again, look into that comedy thing. Your posts are pure comedy gold.

You can spin the silver lining thing about losing the SB all you want.

The bottom line is that the Pats are just the other 31 teams that did not win a Championship last season with the exception of having a lower draft pick. Thats it.
 
Luck has played a huge role in every playoff and Super Bowl of the past twenty years. It's an inescapable, essential part of the formula, for every team that goes on a run. We can't draft, free agent sign, scheme, or execute ourselves out of that fact.

It's been a glorious run in the past eleven years, and looks like it will continue to be. The sun is shining. The Pats are amazing. Enjoy it.

Lee Evans not having both feet down was pure luck. Branch would have had both down.

Harbaugh not using his last TO was luck. The Ravens kicker missing was luck.

Its about Super Bowls. Brady and BB are going to the HOF because theyve won them.
 
I just have not seen Belichick become a top notch drafter. He's a Hall of Fame coach, maybe last season was his best coaching job ever, but he's not a great drafter. That being said, I am very thankful for what he has done for this organization. He may go down as the greatest coach ever, BUT, if he had drafted better, he may have 5 Lombardi's instead of 3, which would have guaranteed him going down as the greatest coach ever. I'm not greedy just realistic.

C'mon, any team that drafted better would have more sucess, BB drafting over the last 12 years are in the top 5 in the nfl. Fans thought Polian was great until the last two or 3 years.

GB, Pitt, The Eagles and the Giants are the competition. Plus please look at the brain drain he has suffered, Dimitroff, Poili etc.
 
It feels like 11 seasons and will be 11 seasons on this current draft course. The Pats have an opportunity to add 4 good players that can help the team win a Championship now. We know the Pats can get in the post season and with luck get to the Super Bowl.

The Pats will probably trade a 1st and a 2nd for more late picks in this draft and the next one. The premise is to try to get a great player after round 4 so the rest of the NFL can marvel at what a deal you got. Always looking for that next Tom Brady.

I got a few questions for you.
First how many drafts has BB failed to select a first rounder?
I believe just 2 his first draft the first rounder went to the jets as compensation for him and I believe one draft he traded back and selected at 33. Don't forget we were stripped of a first round pick and still had another one due to his strategy.

Next question how many first round picks in total has BB made?
I could be wrong but I believe he has selected more first rounders than than drafts he has been envolved in.

Now do a similar exercise with round 2 and 3 and so on.

I really don't see how anyone thinks this is a bad strategy basically you are saying you would rather select 10 spots higher each year then have all these extra picks. And 10 spots higher might be an over exaggeration hmmm that would be an interesting study. Analyze how far BB has truly dropped in order to pick up the extra picks and I guess we could compare in coming player for pick trades to outgoing player for pick trades too in order to add another layer to the study.

My analysis of BB as an actual drafters is that he is on par if not slightly better then the league average but he has done this perenially picking well below average based on his own picks. add in the extra picks he has and it might not increase his overall batting average but more at bats equal more hits and his power numbers compare favorably to the league too.
 
Lee Evans not having both feet down was pure luck. Branch would have had both down.

Harbaugh not using his last TO was luck. The Ravens kicker missing was luck.

Its about Super Bowls. Brady and BB are going to the HOF because theyve won them.

loooooool people crack me up with that kind of thinking.
giants, baltimore, et al, all get results from skill and the pats just get lucky all the time.
ahahahahahahaa.......there weren't any fortuitous plays in the superbowl that decided the game in favor of the giants -- the pats are never unlucky, just lucky.
you people crack me up.
 
If you look at the starting lineup for the Pats in the last SB, 6 of the 11 offensive starters were free agent pickups or trades, 5 of the 11 defensive starters, same thing. So 50% of your starting 22 were NOT Patriot's draft choices. That to me is pretty pitiful drafting, I don't expect the draft process to change until Belichick leaves. All the mediots and Koolaid drinkers will marvel at Bellichick's draft pick mastery as he continues to draft schlubs in the second round instead of using the two first round picks we seem to have every year and never use. Reminds me of the Emporer's new clothes.

I realize this is just trolling, and I've got no problems with that, but could you give us a list of all the years we've had 2 first rounders and not used them?
if it isn't trolling, you might be ******ed -- sry, mods.

who told you team building needs to be done exclusively through the draft?
 
You can spin the silver lining thing about losing the SB all you want.

The bottom line is that the Pats are just the other 31 teams that did not win a Championship last season with the exception of having a lower draft pick. Thats it.

After claiming the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl in 11 years, you shouldn't be taking about anyone spinning the facts.

Fact of the matter is only one team wins the Super Bowl every year. Since the Pats last won the Super Bowl, only five teams have won a Super Bowl. By your standards, there are 27 teams that can't draft and only five that can.

The fact of the matter is that the Pats were in the Super Bowl last year and had the lead with only two minutes left in the game. Two of their best offensive players were far less than 100% and they lost the Super Bowl where one or two plays made the difference in the game.

The Pats will likely be the odds on favorite to be the AFC representative in the Super Bowl in the upcoming season and possibly be the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl. They have already addressed some of they had last year through free agency.

The Pats have won three Super Bowl under Belichick, been to five, been to six AFC Championship games, and have 9 division titles. Clearly what he is doing isn't working and you know how to run the team better than Belichick.
 
1 1 Miami Dolphins Jake Long† OT Michigan Big Ten [8]
1 2 St. Louis Rams Chris Long DE Virginia ACC
1 3 Atlanta Falcons Matt Ryan† QB Boston College ACC
1 4 Oakland Raiders Darren McFadden RB Arkansas SEC
1 5 Kansas City Chiefs Glenn Dorsey DT LSU SEC
1 6 New York Jets Vernon Gholston DE Ohio State Big Ten
1 7 New Orleans Saints Sedrick Ellis DT USC Pac-10 from San Francisco via New England
1 8 Jacksonville Jaguars Derrick Harvey DE Florida SEC from Baltimore
1 9 Cincinnati Bengals Keith Rivers LB USC Pac-10
1 10 New England Patriots Jerod Mayo† LB Tennessee SEC from New Orleans
1 11 Buffalo Bills Leodis McKelvin CB Troy Sun Belt
1 12 Denver Broncos Ryan Clady† OT Boise State WAC
1 13 Carolina Panthers Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon Pac-10
1 14 Chicago Bears Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt SEC
1 15 Kansas City Chiefs Branden Albert OT Virginia ACC from Detroit
1 16 Arizona Cardinals Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie† CB Tennessee State OVC
1 17 Detroit Lions Gosder Cherilus OT Boston College ACC from Minnesota via Kansas City
1 18 Baltimore Ravens Joe Flacco QB Delaware CAA from Houston
1 19 Carolina Panthers Jeff Otah OT Pittsburgh Big East from Philadelphia
1 20 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Aqib Talib CB Kansas Big 12
1 21 Atlanta Falcons Sam Baker OT USC Pac-10 from Washington
1 22 Dallas Cowboys Felix Jones RB Arkansas SEC from Cleveland
1 23 Pittsburgh Steelers Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois Big Ten
1 24 Tennessee Titans Chris Johnson† RB East Carolina C-USA
1 25 Dallas Cowboys Mike Jenkins† CB South Florida Big East from Seattle
1 26 Houston Texans Duane Brown OT Virginia Tech ACC from Jacksonville via Baltimore
1 27 San Diego Chargers Antoine Cason CB Arizona Pac-10
1 28 Seattle Seahawks Lawrence Jackson DE USC Pac-10 from Dallas
1 29 San Francisco 49ers Kentwan Balmer DT North Carolina ACC from Indianapolis
1 30 New York Jets Dustin Keller TE Purdue Big Ten from Green Bay
1 – New England Patriots selection forfeited due to "Spygate" scandal [9]
1 31 New York Giants Kenny Phillips S Miami (FL) ACC


here's the first round from 2008 --- looks like belichick is one of the few who CAN draft, to me.
 
Those that have 2 players picked out in the first round save yourself the frustration.


From Pats Pulpit.


0
The number of draft day trades the Patriots made in 2004. It is the only year in the Bill Belichick era that New England has not engaged in any draft-day trades.
2
The number of times in the Bill Belichick era the Patriots have drafted back-to-back players from the same school (2002: Rohan Davey and Jarvis Green, LSU; 2010: Jermaine Cunningham and Brandon Spikes, Florida).
2
The number of offensive players drafted by the Patriots in the first round on the current roster (2005, Logan Mankins; 2011, Nate Solder).
3
The number of defensive players drafted by the Patriots in the first round on the current roster (2004: Vince Wilfork; 2008: Jerod Mayo; 2010: Devin McCourty).
3
The number of times the Patriots drafted at least two players in the first and second round of the same draft (1998, 1982 and 1977).
13
The number of times since 2000 that New England has traded down in draft-day exchanges (See next page for trade breakdowns).
15
The number of times since 2000 that New England has traded up in draft-day exchanges (See next page for trade breakdowns).
18
The number of times since 2000 that New England has made draft-day trades involving players and/or future draft considerations (See next page for trade breakdowns).
18
The number of draft-day trades New England has made combined in the previous three drafts (2009-2011), with seven in 2009 and 2010 and four in 2011.
46
The number of draft-day trades by Bill Belichick in his 12 drafts with the Patriots. 1999 The last time New England made two first round selections - Nos. 17 and 28.
 
I realize this is just trolling, and I've got no problems with that, but could you give us a list of all the years we've had 2 first rounders and not used them?
if it isn't trolling, you might be ******ed -- sry, mods.

who told you team building needs to be done exclusively through the draft?

hopefully I'll get an answer to this, but I wanted to add one more question --- the years and teams that have drafted 2 players in the first round?
 
Those that have 2 players picked out in the first round save yourself the frustration.


From Pats Pulpit.


0
The number of draft day trades the Patriots made in 2004. It is the only year in the Bill Belichick era that New England has not engaged in any draft-day trades.
2
The number of times in the Bill Belichick era the Patriots have drafted back-to-back players from the same school (2002: Rohan Davey and Jarvis Green, LSU; 2010: Jermaine Cunningham and Brandon Spikes, Florida).
2
The number of offensive players drafted by the Patriots in the first round on the current roster (2005, Logan Mankins; 2011, Nate Solder).
3
The number of defensive players drafted by the Patriots in the first round on the current roster (2004: Vince Wilfork; 2008: Jerod Mayo; 2010: Devin McCourty).
3
The number of times the Patriots drafted at least two players in the first and second round of the same draft (1998, 1982 and 1977).
13
The number of times since 2000 that New England has traded down in draft-day exchanges (See next page for trade breakdowns).
15
The number of times since 2000 that New England has traded up in draft-day exchanges (See next page for trade breakdowns).
18
The number of times since 2000 that New England has made draft-day trades involving players and/or future draft considerations (See next page for trade breakdowns).
18
The number of draft-day trades New England has made combined in the previous three drafts (2009-2011), with seven in 2009 and 2010 and four in 2011.
46
The number of draft-day trades by Bill Belichick in his 12 drafts with the Patriots. 1999 The last time New England made two first round selections - Nos. 17 and 28.

Proof positive your idea works. As you "correctly" pointed out, Belichick has never won a Super Bowl in the last 11 years in his 12 year tenure as Patriots Head Coach/GM.

This year the Pats have a great shot to reload with two picks in each of the first two round like they did in 1998 (Robert Edwards, Tebucky Jones, Tony Simmons, and Rod Rutledge). Do you think the Pats would have won all those Super Bowls under Pete Carroll without those future HOFers? Four out of the park grand slam home runs. In fairness, Edwards might have turned into something if he didn't blow out his knee.

In 1982, the Pats were 1 for 4 on their four picks in the first two rounds. They drafted Kenneth Simms with the first overall pick who was a major bust. They drafted Lester Williams with their other first round pick. They drafted Robert Weathers with their first second rounder. Andre Tippett was their second second rounder and the only hit of the four and he was 14th pick in the second round. So the Pats had the first overall pick and their pick halfway through the second round was the HOFer they hoped their first overall pick would be.

Only 1977 had some success using all four picks. The first rounders were Raymond Clayburn and Stanley Morgan (both solid first rounders). Their second rounders were Horace Ivory (bust) and Don Hasselbeck (another disapointment). So even though they hit big on their first two picks, they were still only 50% on their picks.

So in those three drafts, out of 12 picks in the first two rounds, only three picks turned into good to great to elite players. If Belichick hit on 3 picks out of 12 picks in the first two rounds, people on this board would kill him. If Belichick whiffed on the first overall pick like the Pats did with Simms, people would be calling to fire him.

Thank you for being the beacon of shining light among this darkeness of homerism! It is people like you are smart enough to realize that Belichick hasn't brought a Super Bowl to this team in the last 11 years and his last Super Bowl was the 2000 season which was a team that Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick built. The second they replaced Bledsoe with Brady, no championships. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

This team is just a Tebucky Jones or Tony Simmons away from winning a Super Bowl, but Belichick refuses to stay put draft players of this quality.
 
Last edited:
We're not talking about aesthetics. The facts clearly support one side of the argument. Most of the bashers simply lack the proper perspective, which has really messed up their expectations.

The problem with your post is that the facts do no such thing, and your claiming otherwise doesn't change that.
 
Last edited:


1999 The last time New England made two first round selections - Nos. 17 and 28.

I forgot to mention this. The Pats were .500 on those picks. Damien Woody was one of the best centers for a time (although the guy couldn't snap a shotgun snap for the life of him), but Andy Katzenmoyer was a bust.

Still further proof that having and using two first rounders are not what it is cracked up to be.
 
Last edited:
It feels like 11 seasons and will be 11 seasons on this current draft course. The Pats have an opportunity to add 4 good players that can help the team win a Championship now. We know the Pats can get in the post season and with luck get to the Super Bowl.

I think this really hits at the heart of the matter. The assumption by those that think the Pats draft strategy is all wrong, and that they are lousy player evaluators seems to hold roots in the belief that every early draft pick should be at bare minimum a solid starter for the next ten years. The reality is that even with early picks you're only going to hit on about 50% of your picks, and even the best of the competition will swing and miss (e.g., Baltimore's Segio Kindle, Yamon Figurs, etc.) on occasion.



The Pats will probably trade a 1st and a 2nd for more late picks in this draft and the next one. The premise is to try to get a great player after round 4 so the rest of the NFL can marvel at what a deal you got. Always looking for that next Tom Brady.

If you had paid attention to Belichick at all over his career you would have noticed the one thing he does not give a rat's azz about is his public perception. There are plenty of NFL coaches, general managers and owners whose actions are motivated more by ego and public approval than anything else; Belichick is certainly not part of that group.




The companion part of the argument above that is flawed is the belief that simply having a future Hall of Fame quarterback should result in league championships every two or three years. That is highly unlikely because free agency means good players are lost, and the salary cap makes it difficult to remain competitive.

From 2001-2004 Brady was very early in his career; as a result he took up a much smaller percentage of the team's cap than he does today. That in turns means there is a smaller amount of cap space available for complimentary players, and that in turn makes it harder to keep winning championships.

The team has won 3 championships in 11 years (10 years if you exclude '08) with Brady as the starter; yet many act as if that 27% (or 30%) rate should be higher; why?

From the current cap/FA era Peyton Manning is 1/13 (1/14 if you include '11), or 8%; Brett Favre was 2/19 (11%); John Elway was 2/16 (13%); Kurt Warner was 1/8 (13%), plus 4 years starting less than half his team's games; Drew Brees is 1/10 (10%). The only ones with comparable success ratios are Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger, both of whom are 2/8 (25%), and Aaron Rodgers, who is also at 25% (1/4).

If you look further back in NFL history even the legends that were on teams that did not have to deal with the cap and free agency had relatively low 'success' rates, as success is being defined by some as nothing short of a league championship. The great Joe Montana was 4/15, 27%. NFL legend Johnny Unitas was 2/14 (14%), plus four seasons he wasn't the starter. The only quarterbacks with appreciably better success rates were Bart Starr with one of the greatest dynasties in all of sports (5/14, 36%) and Otto Graham (3/10, 30%). Steve Young was 1/9 (11%); Troy Aikman 3/12 (25%); Dan Marino 0/17 (0%); Terry Bradshaw 4/14 (28%).



Can the Patriots do a better job at drafting? Of, course, absolutely they can! But guess what: there's plenty of room for improvement in that department for all 32 NFL teams.

It is reasonable to want the Pats to draft better, and likewise it is normal to want them to win the Super Bowl every year. However, it is unreasonable to expect every early round pick to turn into a ten-year starter or better, and likewise it is unreasonable to expect this, or any other team to win the Super Bowl every other year.
 
The problem with your post is that the facts do no such thing, and your claiming otherwise doesn't change that.

The facts show that the draft is a crapshoot regardless of who is doing the drafting.
 
The facts show that the draft is a crapshoot regardless of who is doing the drafting.

The facts show no such thing. We call it that in order to simplify draft conversations but, as I've already pointed out, if the draft were just a crap shoot, there'd be no difference between GMs and all teams' drafts would be essentially the same. Hell, teams could fire all their college scouts and save a ton of money, there'd be no difference drafting first or last, and there'd be no reason to drool over the likes of Andrew Luck.
 
Last edited:
1999 The last time New England made two first round selections - Nos. 17 and 28.

Vince Wilfork and Benjamin Watson in 2004 say hi and WTF.
 
Last edited:
You can spin the silver lining thing about losing the SB all you want.

The bottom line is that the Pats are just the other 31 teams that did not win a Championship last season with the exception of having a lower draft pick. Thats it.

Wrong again, the Patriots won the AFC Championship, and as such were the best team in the AFC. They lost a close heartbreaking Super Bowl but were still one of the two best teams in football and are Champions, regardless of your denial.

The Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls and 5 AFC Championships in 11 years, name any team that has done better during this era.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 6 – A Week Before the Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/13
Patriots News 04-12, What To Watch For In The NFL Draft
MORSE: Pre-Draft Patriots News and Notes
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
Mark Morse
2 weeks ago
Patriots Part Ways with Another Linebacker as Offseason Roster Shake-Up Continues
Patriots News 04-05, Mock Draft 2.0, Patriots Look For OL Depth
MORSE: 18 Game Schedule and Other Patriots Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Mike Vrabel Press Conference at the League Meetings 3/31
MORSE: Smokescreens and Misinformation Leading Up to Patriots Draft
Back
Top