The understated key to the Giants, and the difference between NE and NY

[ivanvamp]

During the Giants' playoff run, there were 10 fumbles (not counting the one nullified by the Pats' penalty). 3 Giant fumbles and 7 opponent fumbles. Creating fumbles is a skill; recovering them, as statisticians will tell you, is essentially a 50/50 proposition. You can be in perfect position to recover it but, because of the shape of the ball, it could bounce totally away from you. So getting a fumble is mostly luck. Anyway, of these 10 fumbles, the Giants recovered *8* of them. All of them in the Super Bowl. Any one of them goes the other way and it's almost certainly the ballgame.

In the two Super Bowls between the two teams, there were 5 fumbles (4 by the Giants, 1 by the Patriots), and *ALL FIVE* were recovered by the Giants.

In the last 3 games between the two teams, there have been 9 fumbles (6 by NY, 3 by NE), and *8* of the 9 were recovered by the Giants. Again, forcing fumbles is a skill (and NE forced more Giant fumbles than NY forced Patriot fumbles). Recovering them is mostly luck, and those numbers I just cited are so far out of whack with what is statistically normal it boggles the mind.

Yes, we can talk about all kinds of things, but in many ways, the difference between these two evenly-matched teams comes down to the weird bounce of an oblong football.

And, frankly, that's a bit harder for me to take than if NY was simply better.

 

[g650]

During the Giants' playoff run, there were 10 fumbles (not counting the one nullified by the Pats' penalty). 3 Giant fumbles and 7 opponent fumbles. Creating fumbles is a skill; recovering them, as statisticians will tell you, is essentially a 50/50 proposition. You can be in perfect position to recover it but, because of the shape of the ball, it could bounce totally away from you. So getting a fumble is mostly luck. Anyway, of these 10 fumbles, the Giants recovered *8* of them. All of them in the Super Bowl. Any one of them goes the other way and it's almost certainly the ballgame.

In the two Super Bowls between the two teams, there were 5 fumbles (4 by the Giants, 1 by the Patriots), and *ALL FIVE* were recovered by the Giants.

In the last 3 games between the two teams, there have been 9 fumbles (6 by NY, 3 by NE), and *8* of the 9 were recovered by the Giants. Again, forcing fumbles is a skill (and NE forced more Giant fumbles than NY forced Patriot fumbles). Recovering them is mostly luck, and those numbers I just cited are so far out of whack with what is statistically normal it boggles the mind.

Yes, we can talk about all kinds of things, but in many ways, the difference between these two evenly-matched teams comes down to the weird bounce of an oblong football.

And, frankly, that's a bit harder for me to take than if NY was simply better.

It seems the Pats also play not to lose. The Giants play to win.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

If any one of these 9 plays doesn't happen the way they did, we are happier today:

Welker’s drop,
two fumbles that bounce to Giants teammates,
12 men on the field that negates a turnover and allows a TD later,
Ninkovich's offsides penalty that negated a 3rd down stop,
Hernandez’s drop,
Manningham's sideline catch & the TO wasted on a challenge,
the safety,

and Gronkowski’s ankle injury 2 weeks ago.


Oh well…

I am not saying any of them are "flukes" or anything. It is what it is. I'm sure we have won some where the opponent had nine things they could point to that could have turned the tide for them.

The roster is younger, the cap situation is manageable, the talent level is high, and we have capital in draft picks.

No time to let the ball stop rolling.

 

[eom]

That's actually some pretty interesting stuff.

I can't remember this story too well, but there was a former bear on local chicago radio ---- maybe doug buffone.
he said when he was playing he would make a point to haul ass after every fumble and he never gave up chasing those things but maybe 9 would escappe him, but when he finally got that tenth one everybody would say how lucky he was

 

[strongside]

Giants are just more balanced. They remind me of the 03/04 pats. Both those teams were built on tough physical Dline. 34 vs 43 but still it all started upfront with both those teams.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

It seems the Pats also play not to lose. The Giants play to win.

baloney!

Letting them score a TD and saving a minute of clock was playing to win.

Throwing the ball to Wes Welker at the 20 with 4 minutes left instead of using up clock by unsuccessfully running the ball was playing to win (Sure I would like to be able to ground and pound ala clock-killin' Cory Dillon, but that is not the make-up of our offense right now)

Playing tight coverage vs. dropping back in soft zones was playing to win.

I have no issue with how we played the game, strategically. We just did not make enough good plays.

 

[PatriotFan77]

All plays aside, Pats just **** the bed.

 

[g650]

baloney!

Letting them score a TD and saving a minute of clock was playing to win.

Throwing the ball to Wes Welker at the 20 with 4 minutes left instead of using up clock by unsuccessfully running the ball was playing to win (Sure I would like to be able to ground and pound ala clock-killin' Cory Dillon, but that is not the make-up of our offense right now)

Playing tight coverage vs. dropping back in soft zones was playing to win.

I have no issue with how we played the game, strategically. We just did not make enough good plays.

That's how I see the Patriots play. Not that I'm complaining

 

[WhiZa]

Herm would like to put his two cents in:

 

[Ring 6]

During the Giants' playoff run, there were 10 fumbles (not counting the one nullified by the Pats' penalty). 3 Giant fumbles and 7 opponent fumbles. Creating fumbles is a skill; recovering them, as statisticians will tell you, is essentially a 50/50 proposition. You can be in perfect position to recover it but, because of the shape of the ball, it could bounce totally away from you. So getting a fumble is mostly luck. Anyway, of these 10 fumbles, the Giants recovered *8* of them. All of them in the Super Bowl. Any one of them goes the other way and it's almost certainly the ballgame.

In the two Super Bowls between the two teams, there were 5 fumbles (4 by the Giants, 1 by the Patriots), and *ALL FIVE* were recovered by the Giants.

In the last 3 games between the two teams, there have been 9 fumbles (6 by NY, 3 by NE), and *8* of the 9 were recovered by the Giants. Again, forcing fumbles is a skill (and NE forced more Giant fumbles than NY forced Patriot fumbles). Recovering them is mostly luck, and those numbers I just cited are so far out of whack with what is statistically normal it boggles the mind.

Yes, we can talk about all kinds of things, but in many ways, the difference between these two evenly-matched teams comes down to the weird bounce of an oblong football.

And, frankly, that's a bit harder for me to take than if NY was simply better.

The one Pierre Woods failed to recover in SB 42 was not luck.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

I still can't logically explain how we lost to the Giants in 08 or last week, but two things come to mind: The WRs ability to aggressively make catches, and the O-lines ability to stall the rush. We couldn't do either, you can also look at the fumbles, no other way we lose two HUGE games to such an inferior team.

 

[Deus Irae]

What about when the Giants beat the Pats in November, without Bradshaw, without Nicks, against a healthy Gronk, in YOUR HOUSE? I'm guessing you're just going to chalk that one up to luck as well, right?

It depends upon how you mean luck. In one example of how it can be used, if you're here just to troll, you'll be lucky to get many posts in before you get banned.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

It depends upon how you mean luck. In one example of how it can be used, if you're here just to troll, you'll be lucky to get many posts in before you get banned.

Just another bandwagon giants fan jumping on the train..they are all around my area now

 

[Joker]

that was chalked up to the Giants getting four turnovers from Tom Brady(edit:3 from Brady, 1 from Edelman) and Eli taking the porous,in flux secondary apart in the final minutes...what the hell "against a healthy Gronk" is supposed to mean shows you to be an infant in terms of football acumen..Gronk had 8 catches for 101 yards in that game, Welker 9 for 130...don't get the Gronk slam, unless you ARE a boneheaded troll

 

[Sciz]

Anything the Giants lost by not having Nicks or Bradshaw was more than compensated for by the Pats having Brown and White on the field.

 

[Jackson 2]

You conveniently forgot to mention the Greg Jennings "fumble that wasn't ruled a fumble for a reason only God knows why" in GB that the Giants recovered. That led to a touchdown by the Packers - 7 pts that shouldn't have been on the board and the Giants still beat them by 17. So let's count that fumble by Jennings as a fumble caused by the Giants that was recovered by the Packers, because that's essentially what it was.

So if you add that into the count, you end up with 3 fumbles by the Giants and 8 fumbles by opponents. As you say, creating fumbles is a skill, and shouldn't the Giants get credit for creating 5 more fumbles than their opponents? Good teams create their own luck.

And I hate to break it to you, but NY was simply better. The Giants beat the Pats during the regular season without their leading rusher and their leading receiver, against a healthy Gronk, ON THE ROAD. And the path the Giants took to get to the Super Bowl - the toughest regular season schedule in recent NFL memory, a 10-6 team, a #1 seed, a #2 seed, and a #1 seed in the SB was infinitely tougher than having to beat 1 team with a winning record all season. They beat you twice, had a much tougher road to get there, and you're still going to insist that the Giants just were lucky and not better?

The Patriots were extraordinarily lucky that Lee Evans didn't hold on to that TD and that Cundiff choked. If the Ravens had won that game like they should have, the Pats would have not beaten a single team all season with a winning record. Don't talk to me about luck.

Considering what happened in the NFCCG, I'd suggest that you ought to be appreciating Lady Luck more than any team in the NFL play-offs this year. Oh, and if you want to use injuries as excuses, Hernandez was greatly limited by injury in the NE/Giants regular season game and Chung and Spikes both left with injuries. Tracy White, who likely didn't play another game on defense, was the defender on the pass to Ballard and Sergio Brown, another special teamer, was in for Chung on the critical play in the last drive. So don't come around here trolling about "luck" and/or injuries. Your post reminds me of the low-rent punks on your team. They're worse than the Jets in that regard and, more importantly, Giant fans are worse than Jet fans in that department as well. So, screw off.

 

[Joker]

on a side note...it does warm one's heart to see that even the worst, hackneyed, teeth grating, moronic aphorisms like "who's your daddy?" has finally migrated to the backwoods,bohump burghs of rural Indiana (which, in essence, is the entire state outside of six downtown Indy blocks)..."hoosierdaddy"..yeah...you get a half a "heh"....I'd tell you to go run and get your shinebox but you'd probably trip on a cowpie and break your fool neck...

 

[Koma]

Of course the Williams fumble in overtime was fortuitous. But if he doesn't fumble in overtime, can you guarantee that the 49ers score? Nope. If Evans holds onto that ball like he should have, there is no doubt that the Pats season would have ended without beating a single team with a winning record.

Do you deny that the Pats were extraordinarily lucky that Evans dropped that ball AND Cundiff missed a chip shot field goal?

It was fortunate that Cundiff missed a makeable FG.

The Evans play was not the result of luck. When a defensive back knocks the ball out a receiver's hands, it was not "luck" that caused the incompletion (Unless Andrew Luck has a brother who plays safety or corner.)

 

[Joker]

yep...a pathological liar...you ARE a real Giants fan...

 

[Sciz]

Were the Patriots not fortunate to have a regular season schedule that featured two games against teams that finished with winning records?

No more fortunate than the Giants were to even make the playoffs at 9-7.