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Is the assertion that Belichick's drafts have been poor accurate?

Please acknowledge who are the NY Jets Fans within this thread.
 
LOL....Ivan with the fixation......
 
Bill Belichick's bread and butter is defensive coaching yet our Defense is pathetic.

Beyond that, however good or bad or drafts have been, this defense is practically bankrupt of talent aside from Wilfork and Mayo. I know Mayo is good but still, I don't hear his name called that often during games.

What really irks the heck out of Patriot nation is Belichick's constant trading down. So instead of getting 8 picks of dubious quality, we get even more picks of lesser quality than had we just stuck with our original draft position. In the modern age of capped rookie contracts let us hope BB dispenses with the trading down and signs some first round defensive talent for the defensive side of the ball.
 
LOL....Ivan with the fixation......


lmao, you spend your time pretending to be a fan of your teams rival and trying to start sh.t, as you did yesterday, and you accuse me of a "fixation." That's the kind of thing a 12 year old does, grow up and go talk about your jets with people who care.

Maybe they will appreciate your menstrual threads on your Jets boards, go find out.
 
Please acknowledge who are the NY Jets Fans within this thread.

Illegal Contact openly acknowledged that he roots for the NYJ a few weeks ago, he's a Jets fan who starts threads to start sh.ttalk, just as he did yesterday with his Chung menstrual cycle thread. his comments are just efforts to troll and piss people off and have no value.
 
lmao, you spend your time pretending to be a fan of your teams rival and trying to start sh.t, as you did yesterday, and you accuse me of a "fixation." That's the kind of thing a 12 year old does, grow up and go talk about your jets with people who care.

Maybe they will appreciate your menstrual threads on your Jets boards, go find out.

listen to yourself......
 
Illegal Contact openly acknowledged that he roots for the NYJ a few weeks ago, he's a Jets fan who starts threads to start sh.ttalk, just as he did yesterday with his Chung menstrual cycle thread. his comments are just efforts to troll and piss people off and have no value.

can you say 'fixated'?

please look up that acknowledgement and post.......oh ye of little brain
 
Illegal Contact openly acknowledged that he roots for the NYJ a few weeks ago, he's a Jets fan who starts threads to start sh.ttalk, just as he did yesterday with his Chung menstrual cycle thread. his comments are just efforts to troll and piss people off and have no value.
Thanks for the notice. I also noted the thread started yesterday about Patrick Chung by the "Illegal Contract".
 
Let's go position-by-position, using the current depth chart on nfl.com (I think I have these correct; * indicates on IR):

QB
- Brady - drafted
- Hoyer - drafted
- Mallet - drafted

RB
- BJGE - UDFA
- Faulk - drafted
- Vereen - drafted
- Ridley - drafted
- Woodhead - free agent

WR
- Edelman - drafted
- Ochocinco - trade
- Welker - trade
- Branch - drafted/trade (but he was drafted by NE)
- Slater - drafted
- Underwood - free agent

TE
- Gronkowski - drafted
- Hernandez - drafted

OL
- Light - drafted
- Mankins - drafted
- Solder - drafted
- Waters - free agent
- Connelly - free agent
- Wendell - UDFA
- Vollmer - drafted
- Cannon - drafted
- Thomas - free agent
* Koppen - drafted
* Hix - UDFA
* Ohrnberger - drafted

DL
- Anderson - free agent
- Brace - drafted
- Deadrick - drafted
- Ellis - free agent
- Love - UDFA
- Pryor - drafted
- Warren - free agent
- Wilfork - drafted
* Wright - UDFA
* Carter - free agent
* Cox - UDFA

LB
- Mayo - drafted
- Spikes - drafted
- Ninkovich - free agent
- Guyton - UDFA
- Fletcher - UDFA
- Koutovides - free agent
- White - free agent
* Cunningham - drafted
* Tarpinian - drafted

CB
- McCourty - drafted
- Arrington - free agent
- Jones - free agent
- Moulden - free agent
* Dowling - drafted

S
- Brown - UDFA
- Ihedigbo - free agent
- Lockett - UDFA
- Ventrone - UDFA
* Chung - drafted
* Barrett - free agent

Special Teams
K - Gostowski - drafted
P - Mesko - drafted
LS - Aiken - UDFA

So of these 62 guys:
- 31 (50.0%) were drafted
- 12 (19.4%) were UDFA
- 17 (27.4%) were free agents
- 2 (3.2%) were from trades

Maybe that 50% is a really low number around the league. Seems like most of their best players were acquired through the draft (Brady, Light, Mankins, Solder, Gronk, Hernandez, Branch, Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes, McCourty, Gostowski, Mesko, etc.).

But really, what does it matter? We have an 11-3 team, the #1 seed in the AFC right now, that has a roster whereby 50% was acquired through the draft, and 69% was acquired either through the draft or by UDFA. We can criticize them all we want, and there are definitely some big-time swings and misses in there, but really, that's a really good team populated by a LOT of guys that entered the league thanks to the Patriots.
 
I haven't backtracked at all, and I'm sorry you don't understand what an average is and why averaging isn't applicable here. Until you learn it, this discussion is useless.

Averaging isn't applicable over a five year period where only one draft netted absolutely no results?

And now you are trying so hard to make it appear as if that one bad draft was actually 4. And just one draft netted anything.

Or ignoring them outright. Like Mayo. And Vollmer. And Chung. And Ghost.

EDIT: It's amazing how you continue to carry out the same cowardly tactics that I chide you over. You've ignored the majority of my post....again. Why? You have no answer. It's so pathetic. Answer my post.
 
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I don't think anyone has criticized BB's drafting more than me, I have been killing him for the years now (and rightfully so), but I guess I might have to apologise for the 2009 class. Drafttek has broken down the last three drafts as to who is still on the team. take a peek at the 2009 draft. I guess it was just a bad draft class overall (evn more of a reason to trade up, like I wanted him to do).

NFL Draft | Teams With Most Successful Drafts

Still, passing on Clay Matthews was dumb, dumb, dumb.......
 
Still, passing on Clay Matthews was dumb, dumb, dumb.......

You aren't telling the whole story....

We traded #23 in 2009 for what bacame Butler, Tate, Eddleman, and Gronkowski (+190 in '10)
 
17/28 on offense....not bad
12/32 on defense......thank you......you made my point for me that the pats have sucked a drafting defense.....12/32 sucks




Let's go position-by-position, using the current depth chart on nfl.com (I think I have these correct; * indicates on IR):

QB
- Brady - drafted
- Hoyer - drafted
- Mallet - drafted

RB
- BJGE - UDFA
- Faulk - drafted
- Vereen - drafted
- Ridley - drafted
- Woodhead - free agent

WR
- Edelman - drafted
- Ochocinco - trade
- Welker - trade
- Branch - drafted/trade (but he was drafted by NE)
- Slater - drafted
- Underwood - free agent

TE
- Gronkowski - drafted
- Hernandez - drafted

OL
- Light - drafted
- Mankins - drafted
- Solder - drafted
- Waters - free agent
- Connelly - free agent
- Wendell - UDFA
- Vollmer - drafted
- Cannon - drafted
- Thomas - free agent
* Koppen - drafted
* Hix - UDFA
* Ohrnberger - drafted

DL
- Anderson - free agent
- Brace - drafted
- Deadrick - drafted
- Ellis - free agent
- Love - UDFA
- Pryor - drafted
- Warren - free agent
- Wilfork - drafted
* Wright - UDFA
* Carter - free agent
* Cox - UDFA

LB
- Mayo - drafted
- Spikes - drafted
- Ninkovich - free agent
- Guyton - UDFA
- Fletcher - UDFA
- Koutovides - free agent
- White - free agent
* Cunningham - drafted
* Tarpinian - drafted

CB
- McCourty - drafted
- Arrington - free agent
- Jones - free agent
- Moulden - free agent
* Dowling - drafted

S
- Brown - UDFA
- Ihedigbo - free agent
- Lockett - UDFA
- Ventrone - UDFA
* Chung - drafted
* Barrett - free agent

Special Teams
K - Gostowski - drafted
P - Mesko - drafted
LS - Aiken - UDFA

So of these 62 guys:
- 31 (50.0%) were drafted
- 12 (19.4%) were UDFA
- 17 (27.4%) were free agents
- 2 (3.2%) were from trades

Maybe that 50% is a really low number around the league. Seems like most of their best players were acquired through the draft (Brady, Light, Mankins, Solder, Gronk, Hernandez, Branch, Wilfork, Mayo, Spikes, McCourty, Gostowski, Mesko, etc.).

But really, what does it matter? We have an 11-3 team, the #1 seed in the AFC right now, that has a roster whereby 50% was acquired through the draft, and 69% was acquired either through the draft or by UDFA. We can criticize them all we want, and there are definitely some big-time swings and misses in there, but really, that's a really good team populated by a LOT of guys that entered the league thanks to the Patriots.
 
You aren't telling the whole story....

We traded #23 in 2009 for what bacame Butler, Tate, Eddleman, and Gronkowski (+190 in '10)

Irrelevant since he pats moved up for Gronkowski anyway......they would have had both.

Even so, they could have drafted barwin instead
 
Irrelevant since he pats moved up for Gronkowski anyway......they would have had both.

Even so, they could have drafted barwin instead

You actually expect the draft to net you Gronk, Clay, and Barwin one after the other, year after year? You're just unrealistic.

You use 'hindsight 20/20' vision to envision a a grand-slam in every draft. That's simply not realistic. At all. No team drafts that well over a long amount of time. You don't want to hear it; but every teams selects busts. That's right. Busts. All of them. You praise GB for Clay? How'd AJ Hawk work out? He was supposed to be the high impact LB. That guy has been a total disappointment. That's simply what happens when you put all of your eggs in one basket over the 1st rd pick. If you cannot fully acknowledge this -- then you have flat out unrealistic expectations.

Passing on Clay is a microcosm of the Patriots Draft Philosophy. It's about spreading the risk. Diversifying. Having a realistic approach. Knowing full well that every team will select busts; and devising a plan to minimize that impact. That's maturity. That's have a realistic approach. That's putting your own ego, yes, ego, in-check; because you know full well that you cannot knock it out of the park in every 1st round.....like so many fans simply take for granted.

That's what BB does. He could use that 1st rd ammo to chase one guy. Convince himself he knows the player like the back of his hand -- like so many fans do in retrospect. Put all the eggs in one basket. He doesn't. He'll trade down to the 2nd and 3rd round. Select one or two players, then -- in an aspect of his draft strategy that no one acknowledges -- he use some of that ammo to trade back up for next year; and net another 1st rd pick.

So when the dust settles: you suffered through Butler, Tate, and Eddleman....but your strategy paid off with Gronkowski. You got your impact player. Just as impact-oriented as Clay would have been. You played the Law of Averages instead of putting the eggs in one basket. With that strategy, your averages are constant -- but by diversifying; you've increased the net total.

As such, you've both: (1) minimized the impact of the high rd busts; which every team suffers, and (2) opened the door for more high round grand-slams.

It's solid, realistic thinking.

-------------

Just to set the record on that trade...

#23(1) in 2009:
traded to Balt(Michael Oher) for:
- #26(1)
- #162(5)

#26(1) and #162(5) in 2009:
traded to GB(Clay Matthews) for:
- #41(2) used to acquire D. Butler.
- #83(3) used to acquire B. Tate
- #73(3)

#73(3) in 2009:
traded to JAX (Derek Cox) for:
-2010 #44(2)
-232(7) used to acquire Julian Eddleman

#44(2) in 2010:
traded - along with 190(6) - to Oak(Lamarr Houston, and Travis Goethel) for:
- #42 used to acquire Rob Gronkowski

----

So to recap...
NE trades #23(1) in 2009 for Butler, Tate, Eddleman, and Gronkowski (+190 in '10)
 
17/28 on offense....not bad
12/32 on defense......thank you......you made my point for me that the pats have sucked a drafting defense.....12/32 sucks

I'm not trying to prove anyone's point. The facts are the facts. It would seem that two things can be true at the same time:

(1) Belichick has been pretty successful *overall* in drafting talent for the Patriots.

(2) Belichick has not been nearly as successful drafting *defensive* talent for the Patriots.

Clearly he has hit some huge home runs: Brady, Wilfork, Mayo, Mankins, Light, Seymour (obviously not with the team any longer, but that was still a great pick), Gronkowski, etc. He has also had some really bad misses: Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, etc.).

However he's done it, the Patriots have consistently been one of the best teams in football, year-in and year-out. That cannot be denied by any rational person (not even a Jets' fan).
 
Wrong......I was beating the barwin drum since before that draft, so hindsight had nothing to do with it.

Also, I meant barwin with the current set of picks and no Matthews......I think barwin is better anyway.

my point about gronk was that since the pats moved up to get him, that they were prepared to do so even if they never make the deal that netted the 2nd rounder they used in the deal to get him. Quite simple, really.

Barwin instead of butler or brace, and reed instead of dowling.......problem solved


You actually expect the draft to net you Gronk, Clay, and Barwin one after the other, year after year? You're just unrealistic.

You use 'hindsight 20/20' vision to envision a a grand-slam in every draft. That's simply not realistic. At all. No team drafts that well over a long amount of time. You don't want to hear it; but every teams selects busts. That's right. Busts. All of them. You praise GB for Clay? How'd AJ Hawk work out? He was supposed to be the high impact LB. That guy has been a total disappointment. That's simply what happens when you put all of your eggs in one basket over the 1st rd pick. If you cannot fully acknowledge this -- then you have flat out unrealistic expectations.

Passing on Clay is a microcosm of the Patriots Draft Philosophy. It's about spreading the risk. Diversifying. Having a realistic approach. Knowing full well that every team will select busts; and devising a plan to minimize that impact. That's maturity. That's have a realistic approach. That's putting your own ego, yes, ego, in-check; because you know full well that you cannot knock it out of the park in every 1st round.....like so many fans simply take for granted.

That's what BB does. He could use that 1st rd ammo to chase one guy. Convince himself he knows the player like the back of his hand -- like so many fans do in retrospect. Put all the eggs in one basket. He doesn't. He'll trade down to the 2nd and 3rd round. Select one or two players, then -- in an aspect of his draft strategy that no one acknowledges -- he use some of that ammo to trade back up for next year; and net another 1st rd pick.

So when the dust settles: you suffered through Butler, Tate, and Eddleman....but your strategy paid off with Gronkowski. You got your impact player. Just as impact-oriented as Clay would have been. You played the Law of Averages instead of putting the eggs in one basket. With that strategy, your averages are constant -- but by diversifying; you've increased the net total.

As such, you've both: (1) minimized the impact of the high rd busts; which every team suffers, and (2) opened the door for more high round grand-slams.

It's solid, realistic thinking.

-------------

Just to set the record on that trade...

#23(1) in 2009:
traded to Balt(Michael Oher) for:
- #26(1)
- #162(5)

#26(1) and #162(5) in 2009:
traded to GB(Clay Matthews) for:
- #41(2) used to acquire D. Butler.
- #83(3) used to acquire B. Tate
- #73(3)

#73(3) in 2009:
traded to JAX (Derek Cox) for:
-2010 #44(2)
-232(7) used to acquire Julian Eddleman

#44(2) in 2010:
traded - along with 190(6) - to Oak(Lamarr Houston, and Travis Goethel) for:
- #42 used to acquire Rob Gronkowski

----

So to recap...
NE trades #23(1) in 2009 for Butler, Tate, Eddleman, and Gronkowski (+190 in '10)
 
A little quick on the trigger declaring certain players busts (Chung, McCourty) while at the same time giving no credit elsewhere ("that's what you're supposed to get) and ignoring anything that doesn't fit your agenda (Gronkowski, Hernandez, Vollmer, Mesko, Solder), aren't you?


Guess what: anyybody that visits here at least once a week knows that you hate the Patriots drafts. You've made that point about 800 times in the last four months. Don't you get ever tired of saying the same thing over and over again?

Like others said a few pages back, go do an analysis of all 32 teams over a long enough period of time with some objective definitions of what a good pick is or is not. When you're done with that, get back to us with your data. Until then, frankly you're just an annoying broken record, with no substance behind the noise.

the long haul is not that relevant given that most guys drafted in 2000 and 2001 are long gone

the fact is out of all those draft picks, one one played last sunday (mccourty) busts or not, it is a failure that out of 6 1st and 2nd rounders that only one played. you can make excuses, but the end result is the only real bottom line.

and you're just another homer pickled in kool-aid...

Re-read my post that you responded to. I never mentioned 2001. You basically answered questions I did not ask, and ignored everything I did state and ask. Some people would define that as trollish.



17/28 on offense....not bad
12/32 on defense......thank you......you made my point for me that the pats have sucked a drafting defense.....12/32 sucks

How do you know that those numbers suck? Based on what? What's the league average, the top score, the bottom score, the top ten percent number, the top 25% number over the time frame (five years?) that you want to use to fit your agenda? And if you do take the time to figure it out - which I highly doubt that you will - be sure to hold all 31 other teams to the identical standard that you apply to the Pats (e.g., injured players count as busts) for everyone.


Go ahead and call me a kool-aid homer, but until I see some stats like those I mentioned, then how in the world are you, I or anyone else supposed to know how good or how bad those numbers are? What is the correct number of starters and correct number of drafted players a team is supposed to have on its roster after x number of years? Where did you come up with that number? And why are we not counting guys that were signed as UDFA out of college hours after the draft was completed - even though they were obviously scouted, worked out, analyzed and targeted in the same identical manner that players chosen in the draft were?
 
Wrong......I was beating the barwin drum since before that draft, so hindsight had nothing to do with it.

Also, I meant barwin with the current set of picks and no Matthews......I think barwin is better anyway.

my point about gronk was that since the pats moved up to get him, that they were prepared to do so even if they never make the deal that netted the 2nd rounder they used in the deal to get him. Quite simple, really.

Barwin instead of butler or brace, and reed instead of dowling.......problem solved

One thing (among many) that makes drafting so difficult is that not only do you need to identify a great player; you need to also identify a player that can work in your system. If the Pats are running a 3-4, they need their ends to be bigger guys who can really stuff the run. There might be a *great* DE available in the draft, but he might be 6'1", 265 lbs, and a great pass rusher. That guy might work in a 4-3 as an edge rusher, but he wouldn't work for a 3-4. So they pass on that guy and go after someone else. That guy turns out to be a great NFL player, but given what the Pats are trying to do, he just wouldn't work here.

This doesn't explain every swing-and-miss, of course, but it probably can explain some. Why didn't the Pats take player X? Maybe because they just didn't run a system that would have fit that guy.
 
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