Enough Value -Trade up and get a Playmaker!

[captain stone]

Mo Sanu had 7 catches on Rutgers drive to tie the game including a one handed catch on a 4th an 9. This kid is going to be great on the right team if he slips to the late first early second.

As much as Brady could really use a younger, taller, faster WR outside the hash,
I also don't want to use one of the late 1s/early 2s on that position, either.
The many needs on defense (3-4 and/or 4-3 DE, 3-4 and/or 4-3 OLB, FS, CB depth)
outweigh the fewer needs (C/G, WR, and an Ass-Kicking/Road-Grading FB) of the offense.
Maybe Bill will have better luck drafting WRs outside the top-100 instead of inside it.

 

[sbpatfan]

What happens if you trade up and get a Vernon Gholston?

 

[Snake Eyes]

What happens if you trade up and get a Vernon Gholston?

What happens if you trade back and miss on a Darelle Revis only to get a Darius Butler?

 

[Sciz]

What happens if you trade back and miss on a Darelle Revis only to get a Darius Butler?

Then you still have two picks to use to get a hit somewhere else.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Then you still have two picks to use to get a hit somewhere else.

On players that aren't as good and/or don't have the upside the higher rated DBs do. If this approach works so well where is all the incredible talent on our defense?

 

[NinjaZX6R]

What happens if you trade back and miss on a Darelle Revis only to get a Darius Butler?

Didn't the Pats want to move up to get Revis?

 

[TriplecHamp]

As much as Brady could really use a younger, taller, faster WR outside the hash,
I also don't want to use one of the late 1s/early 2s on that position, either.
The many needs on defense (3-4 and/or 4-3 DE, 3-4 and/or 4-3 OLB, FS, CB depth)
outweigh the fewer needs (C/G, WR, and an Ass-Kicking/Road-Grading FB) of the offense.
Maybe Bill will have better luck drafting WRs outside the top-100 instead of inside it.

I agree but if he's there in the late 1st, I would love for the Pats to draft him, after LB/DE is adressed. Next comes safety.

Anybody see Jarvis Jones of Georgia play? Worth a first round grade. Another player to keep an eye on is Ronnell Lewis of OU.

 

[Sciz]

On players that aren't as good and/or don't have the upside the higher rated DBs do. If this approach works so well where is all the incredible talent on our defense?

Remember, if he doesn't trade down, then he has fewer picks to work with. For example, the infamous Clay Matthews trade turned into Gronkowski, Edelman, Butler, and Tate. He hit big on Gronk and got a little more than what you'd expect out of a 7th rounder in Edelman, but missed badly on Butler and Tate. If he uses that first round pick, then he doesn't get a second (or third) chance, and we're instead complaining about him blowing a first round pick. It's not like he's going to get a stud with every first round pick just because he uses it rather than trading down.

 

[jeffbiologist]

I think the trading the future mid round picks for established players(malcontents) replaces the discount FAs we used to get who wanted to win a SB. I think BB sees the lack of VALUE in rounds 4-6 as UDFAs always make this team. Avoiding albatross contracts is the key to the long term success with any franchise, but the rookie wage scale should make moving up to the top more tolerable IF you dont miss. I think the changing of the defense, the reworking DL and lack of playmakers at LB are the most glaring draft needs. Impact LBs are the most unpredictable to draft, this team defense hasnt been the same since Vrabel left. I think targeting top talent has never been this team's forte, and I wonder if the translation from scouting to picking has kept up with the Joneses as team speed is lacking in every position. Our DBs arent in position to make plays on the ball for a reason.

 

[Sciz]

I agree but if he's there in the late 1st, I would love for the Pats to draft him, after LB/DE is adressed. Next comes safety.

Anybody see Jarvis Jones of Georgia play? Worth a first round grade. Another player to keep an eye on is Ronnell Lewis of OU.

Jones says he's staying in school. Lewis is listed at 6'2", 244. That's too small.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Didn't the Pats want to move up to get Revis?

Not that I know of, that was meant to be a metaphor.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Remember, if he doesn't trade down, then he has fewer picks to work with. For example, the infamous Clay Matthews trade turned into Gronkowski, Edelman, Butler, and Tate. He hit big on Gronk and got a little more than what you'd expect out of a 7th rounder in Edelman, but missed badly on Butler and Tate. If he uses that first round pick, then he doesn't get a second (or third) chance, and we're instead complaining about him blowing a first round pick. It's not like he's going to get a stud with every first round pick just because he uses it rather than trading down.

The general idea seems to be that by trading down you have more opportunity for success, you mentioned the Clay Matthews trade, which I’m actually ok with, if BB drafted Wallace instead of Tate it would be hailed as one of the best moves ever. My core problem with it is that there doesn’t seem to be the emphasis on undervalued players in order to make it worth while. Gronk had a prior back issue which spooked teams, so he’s essentially a 1st round talent that you can pick up in the 2nd round, no problem, I’m ok with that kind of risk, but where Butler and Tate undervalued or appropriately valued? Tate wasn’t a #1 receiver on his college team and it was also known that he would lose a year because of his injury, the first thing I would think is “will for 4yrs of service from a guy who couldn’t even be the #1 on his college team be worth more than 5yrs of service from ______”?

Something is expensive is when the quality doesn’t align with the price, the Jets had to trade up for Revis but he was still a bargain, OTOH paying cheap money to a guy that sucks isn’t value, this seems lost on the personnel dept.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is one year BB doesn't need to trade up that far to get a playmaker OLB, a 1st & 3rd for Upshaw. He's played the position ( in the semi-pros, SEC) under Saban, what more could Bill ask for. Plus any players that have been mentioned as having higher ceilings take two plays off for every one they play. (IMHO)

Except that Upshaw is rated as a late 1st/early 2nd right now.. So they may not need to trade up.. Also, Upshaw is 6'1 6/8 inches tall.. That is pretty short for a Pats OLB.. The Pats like them to be in the 6'3-6'4 range...

Still like this kid Chase Thomas OLB Stanford, already plays in 3-4. Seen him drive OT back into QB ( at 240 lbs.) good game speed, not just 40-4.6 but he's raw. Start year with Upshaw & Nink until Thomas is ready. ( like our new LB coach to work with them, Willie McGinest, he worked with kid from Fresno to get ready for the draft, only place this was annouced was in my head) What makes you think that Thomas is going to declare?
With 2 of our 2nd rd. picks (due to recent cuts & no developmental backups) we take one of the best FS & a decent corner. I hated the Dowling pick from the get go. Talent but hurt all the time, that's why I called him "right-after-surgery Dowling. Canon didn't bother me because it wasn;t a long line of things and it was a later rd. pick. Until they found cancer I called him " The tub of goo from TCU" but he played good in college & versatile, G/T.

There are currently only 2 safeties projecting into the 1st two rounds (excluding underclassmen). Markelle Martin from Oklahoma and Mark Barron from Alabama. Not sure if there are any underclassmen who are better than either of those two who will declare. As for corners, there are 6 projecting to the 1st 2 rounds.. Only 1 of who is a 6'0 and that is Chase Minnifield from Virginia.

As for what you called Cannon, that goes to show how ignorant you are. Cannon is built. There isn't a lot of fat on his body. Something like 12-15%. And that's after the Chemo. As for Dowling, the idea that he's always hurt is so over-exaggerated it's pathetic. The guy missed 8 games during his college career. 7 during his senior year and 1 during his sophomore year. Hardly what I call damning evidence..

 

[everlong]

The Patriots were interested in trading up for Revis but were outbid by the Jets. NY gave up a first and a second. I don't know what the Pats were offering.

 

[Snake Eyes]

As for Dowling, the idea that he's always hurt is so over-exaggerated it's pathetic. The guy missed 8 games during his college career. 7 during his senior year and 1 during his sophomore year. Hardly what I call damning evidence..

Of the games Dowling played, how many series was he in for? Sure, he started a lot of games but also had to come out very early in a LOT of them because of injuries.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Except that Upshaw is rated as a late 1st/early 2nd right now.. So they may not need to trade up.. Also, Upshaw is 6'1 6/8 inches tall.. That is pretty short for a Pats OLB.. The Pats like them to be in the 6'3-6'4 range.

Aren't Ninkovich, Colvin and A Thomas all in that 6'1" to 6'2" range?

Also has anyone noticed the the BC linebacker Khuely (best guess on spelling) and Bruschi are almost the same in terms of height and weight and instincts?

 

[DaBruinz]

Mo Sanu had 7 catches on Rutgers drive to tie the game including a one handed catch on a 4th an 9. This kid is going to be great on the right team if he slips to the late first early second.

I would not be surprised to see the Pats look at him when he declares.. He is only a junior, though..

 

[DaBruinz]

Aren't Ninkovich, Colvin and A Thomas all in that 6'1" to 6'2" range?

Also has anyone noticed the the BC linebacker Khuely (best guess on spelling) and Bruschi are almost the same in terms of height and weight and instincts?

Colvin was 6'3
Ninkovich was 6'3 1/8 at his combine.
Adalius Thomas was the shortest of the 3 at 6'2 3/8". And the Pats got him to play ILB, not OLB..

The guy from BC you are referring to is Luke Keuchly. He's a junior this year. I haven't watched BC myself, but I think if he declares and has the instincts that you mention, he could be a guy the Pats look at since he'd be an upgrade over Guyton and maybe even Spikes..

 

[DaBruinz]

BB the personnel guy is killing BB the coach by passing on pass rushers and loading up on DB's.

Bottom line: We have the worst defense in the NFL and that is unacceptable.

I guess this is how the Miami fans of the 80's felt when they had Dan spinning it and a swiss cheese defense year after year.

Somebody in the organization needs to stand up to BB and explain to him that pass rushers do not grow on trees, they are selected via the draft.

Why aren't the Mediots at ESPNBoston, the Globe and the Herald calling BB out over his lack of attention via the draft to the OLB/DE position?

No. We don't have the worst defense in the league. We have the worst passing defense. And that over-shadows the run defense. Also, you are basing it on Yards allowed and not points allowed. Does it need improvement? Sure. We need at least a safety and preferably an OLB to rush the passer. Having a RDE who can dominate would be nice. However, adding another NT that would allow Wilfork to move to RDE on a full time basis would work as well.

 

[Frick]

DaBruinz- Take it easy,take a valium, this is the draft site were we don't make personal attacks. Love having your point of view, but hold off on the venom.

When I called Canon "the tub of goo from TCU", it was meant more as a term of endearment , a cute nickname. I was in favor of drafting him and I know he has talent. I love having some wider bodies on the O-LINE. I know everybody here has heard Tom Brady refer to his O-LINE as fat numerous times, do you think he is ignorant? If you want go after everyone that called Larry Bird "THE HICK FROM FRENCH LICK", go ahead. I don't think it was meant as a personal attack and I'm pretty sure he never took it that way.

Do I know for sure that Chase Thomas is going to declare, no, but if Luck leaves, I think you can bet dollars to donuts he'll lean that way.

Love contrasting views, hate attacks on each other, but by all means let everyone know what you think about all things draft.