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Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora (merged many times)

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Although I don't know if Umenyiora has a realistic chance to get here, I still think he will be traded before the season. I think they Giants will field offers, but they just don't need the Umenyiora watch that has happened the last 24 hours. If the Giants get an offer they like, they will trade him.
 
Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

He's practicing because they lose 30k a day now if they don't. It doesn't mean he's happy. He has 2 years left on his deal, when he'll be nearly 32. If he doesn't get his big money now he probably won't get it.

He apparently thinks he should already have been rewarded and that they broke a promise to him. If the Giants were looking to 'reward' him, I doubt they'd be letting him seek a trade partner.

I think that rule is pretty stupid and apperently you can work around it pretty easily. Maybe there is something that prevents the work around.

Obviously we all hate holdouts but I am not sure how you can take that leverage away from the player? You can put all the rules in place you want but at the end of the day if a guy doesnt want to work for someone he isnt going to do it.

What is the difference between Osi situation and Carson Palmers? Carson said he will retire unless the Bengals trade him (esentially he is holding out on the Bengals) but if the Bengals changed their mind and aggreed to trade him Carson would unretire in a heart beat. He probably didn't file papers and thus would have no hurdles to overcome.

So instead of a holdout you have to fake retirement or in other words retire but unretire for the right team.
 
I would offer them a second round pick and a 3rd round pick based on performance
 
Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

I think that rule is pretty stupid and apperently you can work around it pretty easily. Maybe there is something that prevents the work around.

Obviously we all hate holdouts but I am not sure how you can take that leverage away from the player? You can put all the rules in place you want but at the end of the day if a guy doesnt want to work for someone he isnt going to do it.

What is the difference between Osi situation and Carson Palmers? Carson said he will retire unless the Bengals trade him (esentially he is holding out on the Bengals) but if the Bengals changed their mind and aggreed to trade him Carson would unretire in a heart beat. He probably didn't file papers and thus would have no hurdles to overcome.

So instead of a holdout you have to fake retirement or in other words retire but unretire for the right team.

The league wanted it stricter rules for holdouts in the new CBA and I don't blame them. I don't see why it's stupid.

Carson has said he retiring, which means he isn't cashing a paycheck, hence there is nothing to fine him about. Osi can retire and not get any of his 4 million this year too if he wants to. Would be a pretty dumb move but he could do it.

The difference between retiring and then un-retiring is the fact that you aren't getting paid while you're retired and the team holds your rights even if you un-retire, so what is the point?
 
The divorce between the Giants and Umenyiora is likely to happen unless the Giants give him a long term deal. The Giants gave him an excused absence to "clear his head" today. Word is that Umenyiora is going to sit out for an extended period of time with an unexplained foot injury.

Belichick would just put Umenyiora on the NFI list and IR him if didn't return. I don't know if Coughlin and the Giants would do the same.
 
Although I don't know if Umenyiora has a realistic chance to get here, I still think he will be traded before the season. I think they Giants will field offers, but they just don't need the Umenyiora watch that has happened the last 24 hours. If the Giants get an offer they like, they will trade him.

Right - I don't know why he's considered "off the market"

He's still on the market. Teams just need to deal directly with the Giants rather than Umenyiora.

The "permission" granted by the Giants simply allowed teams to determine long-term deal parameters with his agent. Now that teams know what they are dealing with in terms of contract and draft picks, the "window" doesn't need to be kept open.

It's probably the cost of the contract that's more of a problem for the Pats than a 2nd round draft choice.
 
Wake me when this saga is over.:yawn2:
 
Re: Report: Pats interested in Umenyiora, price now down to 2nd rounder

Why did you count 2008 as a season? He missed the whole year with an injury, so you probably should have used 7 years, but who cares anyway.

The fact of the matter is that you said earlier that you don't understand why so many fans have become stat chasers, yet you are using stats to back some of your logic. That seems a bit inconsistent. Why are you using sacks per year to determine the "eliteness" of certain pass rushers if stats aren't that useful and "stat chasers" don't know how to truly build a team?

I don't know how much you've seen of Osi play, and you're entitled to your opinion, but you seem to be in the minority on this one. A lot of people see him as a better all around player than you give him credit for. I agree that he is a bit weaker than ideal vs the run, but I don't think he's an atrocity like you claim.

Even so, all the other guys you allege as being "more elite" than him have warts in their games too, yet most are still paid top dollar. Obviously, everyone is looking for a guy like Lawrence Taylor, but those are once in a generation types of players. You can say bad things about all of those guys you listed as being better than Osi in terms of sacks. Some are weak vs the run, some take plays off, some don't maintain the level of consistency from game to game, some are one-trick ponies, some are only good because of the scheme and/or talent surrounding them, etc.

The point is that when you watch Osi Umenyoria play, the guy can wreak havoc, put pressure on the QB, blow plays up in the backfield, and force turnovers. He is a big time difference maker as a pass rusher, regardless of how many sacks per year he has. If you put him on a DL with Haynesworth and Wilfork, who basically both command double teams, Osi would have a monstrous year for the Patriots.

A lot of top flight pass rushers are considered "weak" against the run because they are more interested in getting sacks and "killing the QB" than playing with contain principles or setting the edge. I have seen Osi play a good amount of football and I do not think he is as bad against the run as you think he is. That's just a difference of opinion.

I think Osi is well worth a second round pick and $8-$10 million per year. He is a great all around pass rusher. I've seen him have success speed rushing, bull rushing, using swim/rip/spin moves, blitzing as a stand up LB in an exotic package. Yes, there is no doubting that he's not a great run stuffer, but he's still good enough in that area that he is worth the investment. This team has not had an elite pass rusher for a very long time.

I know you said you don't mind getting a pass rushing demon to play in sub packages and play 60% of the total defensive snaps, but who do you plan on going out and getting and how are you going to do it? Regardless of how good a guy is against the run, if he's a good pass rusher, he's going to get big money. This league has become a glorified 7 on 7 game, and guys that can get after the QB and put him on his back are consistently given big time money.

Jason Babin had one good year and just got around $5.5-$6 million per year for 5 years at the age of 31. He never had a double digit sack season before 2010, when he racked up 12.5. The highest he ever had before 2010 was 5 sacks, back in 2006.

Charles Johnson had one good year and just got $12 million per year for 6 years. He's had one double digit sack season and was given $12 million dollars per year.

Osi Umenyoria has had 3 double digit sack seasons. He has been a key part of a defense that beat the greatest offense of all time in the SB. He still managed 7 sacks in 2009, despite feuding with the coaching staff, being benched, and having his snaps reduced which led also led to lower confidence and morale levels.

Maybe he doesn't meet your sacks per game assessment, but I'd take him over a ton of guys on your list of people who have more sacks than him. Out of the guys on that list, he's closer to the top than he is to the bottom in terms of pass rushing ability IMO. He is a playmaker at a position where the Pats have desperately needed a playmaker for a long time.

Although it seems like there is no deal that will happen, this was a great post.
 
I would offer them a second round pick and a 3rd round pick based on performance

Although your pick prediction makes a lot of sense (#2 and possibly a future #3 based on performance), it isn't the picks problem that is holding back the NEP from attempting to trade for him. It's the salary that's the potential problem.
 
Looks like the Giants didn't learn from Belichick's mistake with Branch. It sounds like Umenyiora and the NFLPA are going to file a grievance with the league for not allowing him to get traded. The league is most likely going to force the Giants to trade Umenyiora just like they did with the Pats because they are not going to want a judgement that could open a can of worms.

The good news is that if Belichick really want Umenyiora, he will definitely be traded at this point.

However, a source said the player doesn't plan to actually practice "anytime soon."

"He assumes that the next step is for them to fine him or suspend him," the source said. "Then it becomes a matter for the union and that's when it could get really ugly."

Osi Umenyiora shows at Giants practice but refuses to participate after convo with GM Jerry Reese
 
They did learn. That's one reason why Doty is no longer an option. It's also why the Giants established the compensation up front as a first. The Patriots were not willing to allow the agent to negotiate a trade, just allowed him to test the waters. NY came up as a partner willing to do Deion's deal, just only willing to do it at the price of a second - which NE then claimed was not good enough. The team might have prevailed at that juncture anyway had Seattle not tossed it's hat into the ring with a flourish (they would trade a first). The Giants are traditional hard asses, and the league won't be into setting precedent by backing down from a fight this time with a new 10 year deal signed and sealed. That deal also did a lot to limit holdouts and give the teams some teeth in recovering signing bonus.
 
I still don't understand how that happened, you shouldn't be able to force a team into a trade no matter what they told a player.
 
I'm kinda happy he's mad.

This could make him want to leave so bad, it will slightly lower hs salary requirements. Plus you'll get a guy looking to prove something.........hopefully here
 
More than his demands would have to be moderated. No one is willilng to part with a first. Some might be seriously interested if the compensation drops to a second, but there is no precedent for the league to force the Giants hands on that. The Patriots screwed up on Branch by not making the terms clear during his permission period because they wanted to control compensation and not involve the player or his agent in that part of the equation. In doing so they set themselves up for Mangini to poke a stick into the mix.

I doubt the Patriots would be interested even for a 2nd. They tend to only be interested in rolling the dice on less risky and expensive propositions. I saw someone tweet yesterday that sources close to the Patriots indicated that regarding their name being bandied about as interested their interest was limited to doing due diligence.
 
They did learn. That's one reason why Doty is no longer an option. It's also why the Giants established the compensation up front as a first. The Patriots were not willing to allow the agent to negotiate a trade, just allowed him to test the waters. NY came up as a partner willing to do Deion's deal, just only willing to do it at the price of a second - which NE then claimed was not good enough. The team might have prevailed at that juncture anyway had Seattle not tossed it's hat into the ring with a flourish (they would trade a first). The Giants are traditional hard asses, and the league won't be into setting precedent by backing down from a fight this time with a new 10 year deal signed and sealed. That deal also did a lot to limit holdouts and give the teams some teeth in recovering signing bonus.

Well, they didn't learn any way you look at it. Because they should have known that you cannot go back after you do that. It seems pretty clear that they pulled the plug because with so many suitors, they might get the first round pick that they were looking for and they don't want to trade him. Like with Branch situation, they thought Umenyiora would find out the market for him wasn't as strong as he thought it was. And like in the Branch situation, it was the team who misjudged the market for the player.

As for the new CBA, I still think there is still arbitration it is just out of Doty's hands. Doty was never involved in the Branch situation. John Feerick, a law professor at Fordham, was the arbitrator in the Branch case. According to the new CBA, the arbitrator will be chosen jointly by the league and NFLPA.

As for holdouts, Umenyiora is "injured". He is showing up to practices, but sitting out for an "undisclosed injury". He is daring the Giants to fine or suspend him.

There is no doubt it is going to end ugly between the Giants and Umenyiora. And the Giants have a lot to do with it. I don't know if he has a realistic shot or not of coming to the Patriots, but at this point, I think he has a better shot of being on the Patriots before the start of the season than the Giants because I think the Giants are going to have to cut bait because they created a nightmare for themselves.
 
Andrew Brandt said yesterday it is standard operating procedure for teams to put a limit on seeking a trade approvals because they don't want them to drag on in open ended formats. Osi can fake it all he wants but if he passed the physical and has privately indicated to anyone on the staff that he is holding out, he may find it difficult to win his freedom. It may well take weeks for this to play out because the Giants tend to be hardliners and probably won't panic because everyone involved knows what is going on, kind of like when the union decertified... Maybe they will PUP him or place him on the NFI/PUP list or maybe they will ignore him and eventually suspend him but I think they will hold that in reserve for closer to the season. Like Bill says, money doesn't impact these guys as much as taking away their stage...and we really weren't allowed to take Deion's away because we made a mistake in assuming he had no market at his asking price regardless of trade compensation...
 
Andrew Brandt said yesterday it is standard operating procedure for teams to put a limit on seeking a trade approvals because they don't want them to drag on in open ended formats. Osi can fake it all he wants but if he passed the physical and has privately indicated to anyone on the staff that he is holding out, he may find it difficult to win his freedom. It may well take weeks for this to play out because the Giants tend to be hardliners and probably won't panic because everyone involved knows what is going on, kind of like when the union decertified... Maybe they will PUP him or place him on the NFI/PUP list or maybe they will ignore him and eventually suspend him but I think they will hold that in reserve for closer to the season. Like Bill says, money doesn't impact these guys as much as taking away their stage...and we really weren't allowed to take Deion's away because we made a mistake in assuming he had no market at his asking price regardless of trade compensation...

It is clear that if there was a limit, it wasn't yesterday. Umenyiora and his agent were blindsided by them pulling the plug and earlier reports stated that the Giants wanted this to be resolved by the end of the week. They pulled the plug because there were six teams ready to make a trade and it was becoming a distraction.

The Giants cannot PUP him. He didn't start the season on the active PUP roster. They can either suspend him or put him on IR.

Again, I don't really think he will end up with the Pats, but ultimately the Giants look to be heading to a point of no return where they will have to trade him to someone.
 
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It is clear that if there was a limit, it wasn't yesterday. Umenyiora and his agent were blindsided by them pulling the plug and earlier reports stated that the Giants wanted this to be resolved by the end of the week. They pulled the plug because there were six teams ready to make a trade and it was becoming a distraction.

The Giants cannot PUP him. He didn't start the season on the active PUP roster. They can either suspend him or put him on IR.

Again, I don't really think he will end up with the Pats, but ultimately the Giants look to be heading to a point of no return where they will have to trade him to someone.

IR'ing him isn't really an option. They'll have a greivance on their hands, and they'll probably lose it.

Suspend, Trade, or just try to wait him out are his options.
 
Osi is major league pissed haha

bring that anger to san diego my man!
 
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