The "pass-rushing OLB" myth

[RobertWeathers]

If Brady didn't throw that pick or Chung didn't fumble the fake punt, then none of that matters. The pass rush didn't lose that game. Multiple uncharacteristic mistakes did.

The TB pick did not result in a NYJ score. Took the wind out of their sails maybe but nothing finite happened. The drive could have been stopped and a FG missed. Who knows?

Ok , Chung fumbles and the NYJ get a short field. Sanchez throws a 15 yd TD. On that drive was poor run defense and no pressure on the passer.

My point is that a marginal QB had a VERY efficient game. Marginal QBs should not have good games in the playoffs on the road. The defense- specifically an inability to apply pressure on the passer was an abject failure and was a major contributing factor in the loss.

 

[eom]

If Brady didn't throw that pick or Chung didn't fumble the fake punt, then none of that matters. The pass rush didn't lose that game. Multiple uncharacteristic mistakes did.

if the pass rush was better maybe they could've won despite those mistakes.

these arguments are ridiculous.

 

[Sciz]

if the pass rush was better maybe they could've won despite those mistakes.

these arguments are ridiculous.

Except that it's extremely difficult to find an OLB who upgrades the pass rush without sacrificing run defense or coverage ability. Then you're not losing because the pass rush is only above average, you're losing because your OLB can't set the edge to save his life.



And I'll also add: The offensive line was a much bigger problem in the playoff game than the pass rush was. True story.

 

[patsoxfan]

Wright was out
TWarren was out
Bodden was out
Brace was out
Pryor was limited
Cunningham was limited
Deaderick was just unsuspended
Ninkovich left the game due to injury

And the pass rush still wasn't one of the top-3 concerns in that game.

I asked a question and you still have not answered it. You will make excuse after excuse but the bottom line is pass rush changes games. You will never admit it but pass rushers are a premium. There is a reason teams pay so much for an impact pass rusher and its because they change games. Ask Tom Frikkin Brady. How many times did the pats pressure matt snatchez?

 

[Sciz]

I asked a question and you still have not answered it. You will make excuse after excuse but the bottom line is pass rush changes games. You will never admit it but pass rushers are a premium. There is a reason teams pay so much for an impact pass rusher and its because they change games. Ask Tom Frikkin Brady. How many times did the pats pressure matt snatchez?

I didn't answer the question because anybody on this forum knows the answer. It's really convenient how everybody mentions that game. How many times did the Pats pressure Ben Roethlisberger, back when they could field a whole starting front 7?

 

[eom]

is that the same ben roethlisberger that was on pace for 43 sacks over 16 games that year, having averaged about 50 the previous 4 years, or do I have him mixed up with somebody else?

I'm curious as to why you reached back to week 10 for your example.

 

[condon84]

I asked a question and you still have not answered it. You will make excuse after excuse but the bottom line is pass rush changes games. You will never admit it but pass rushers are a premium. There is a reason teams pay so much for an impact pass rusher and its because they change games. Ask Tom Frikkin Brady. How many times did the pats pressure matt snatchez?

You are arguing a pointless argument. In these here boards, our pass rush is fine and the elite OLB who can rush are liabilities against the run. Trust me, this argument has been exhausted and everyone parrots the same excuse.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Hali was franchised by the Chiefs.

If you go back 2-3 years and look at ChiefsPlanet, pretty much everyone on the board wanted to run him out of town because he was a bust who couldn't get to the QB.

Chiefs Is Tamba Hali a bust? [Archive] - ChiefsPlanet
Chiefs Whose fault is Tamba Hali? [Archive] - ChiefsPlanet
Chiefs Tamba Hali - Dissapointment? [Archive] - ChiefsPlanet

I'm sure there's a lesson for a lot of Pats fans in there somewhere.

 

[Sciz]

I'm curious as to why you reached back to week 10 for your example.

It's a nice benchmark as Wright's last game before going out with an injury. That started the steady stream of injured front 7 defenders, the severity of which we won't see the rest of this decade.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

We might go after a blue collar guy like Matt Roth of the Browns who I believe is an UFA under the old CBA

Roth is a 3-4 OLB and that's what we need here,not a Burgess 4-3 project

 

[Deus Irae]

If you go back 2-3 years and look at ChiefsPlanet, pretty much everyone on the board wanted to run him out of town because he was a bust who couldn't get to the QB.

Chiefs Is Tamba Hali a bust? [Archive] - ChiefsPlanet
Chiefs Whose fault is Tamba Hali? [Archive] - ChiefsPlanet
Chiefs Tamba Hali - Dissapointment? [Archive] - ChiefsPlanet

I'm sure there's a lesson for a lot of Pats fans in there somewhere.

Yes, but I don't think that lessen is what I think you're trying to put forward. The reason that Chiefs fans were down on Hali was because he basically wet himself in 2008, after Allen was traded and teams were able to focus on him in the 4-3, and Chiefs fans thought he was a product of Allen's double teams. If you look at his career, though, he's been a pretty good sack guy for most of it. Last year was his second year in the 3-4, and he clearly responded well to the coaching of Romeo and more familiarity in the system.

8
7.5
3
8.5
14.5

I don't think there's any real applicability to this Patriots team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yes, but I don't think that lessen is what I think you're trying to put forward. The reason that Chiefs fans were down on Hali was because he basically wet himself in 2008, after Allen was traded and teams were able to focus on him in the 4-3, and Chiefs fans thought he was a product of Allen's double teams. If you look at his career, though, he's been a pretty good sack guy for most of it. Last year was his second year in the 3-4, and he clearly responded well to the coaching of Romeo and more familiarity in the system.

8
7.5
3
8.5
14.5

I don't think there's any real applicability to this Patriots team.

I think it does, especially for the people who think that last year indicates that we can't expect much from Cunningham. That was his first year as an OLB- I'm not ready to pencil him in as an impact player yet, but this is when we'll see if he can be or not. That he only had 1 sack last year is borderline irrelevant.

I was over on ChiefsPlanet quite a bit a couple offseasons ago, because I was interested to see how they'd respond to Pioli/Cassel, and, to put it lightly, it wasn't pretty. A lot of fans were furious that they were installing a 3-4, since in their estimation it made both Dorsey and Hali useless. Hali, in most of their estimations, was simply too slow and too rigid to be an OLB. They were wrong, though- the transition just took some time.

There's a pretty good chance that the same people who are assuming that Cunningham will never amount to anything will be the ones complaining the loudest if he ever leaves.

 

[patsoxfan]

It's a nice benchmark as Wright's last game before going out with an injury. That started the steady stream of injured front 7 defenders, the severity of which we won't see the rest of this decade.

I never thought I would see a "mike Wright was injured" excuse for no pass rush. No pass rush, no help on the horizon. None of those injured players are proven pass rushers anyway. It is amazing that no one on this board thinks that there are players out there who can play OLB effectively (good rush, cant play the run). Is BB trying the impossible. Why would he not change his defense completely if this is the case. They are out there he just cant evaluate that position worth a damn. I guess your answer is to give up. I refuse to believe that there is no one that can play this position. I believe the Pats will go back to running the ball early and often. Two monster tackles, big mean guards and a 230lb back. (watch clips of Ridley). later.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think it does, especially for the people who think that last year indicates that we can't expect much from Cunningham. That was his first year as an OLB- I'm not ready to pencil him in as an impact player yet, but this is when we'll see if he can be or not. That he only had 1 sack last year is borderline irrelevant.

I was over on ChiefsPlanet quite a bit a couple offseasons ago, because I was interested to see how they'd respond to Pioli/Cassel, and, to put it lightly, it wasn't pretty. A lot of fans were furious that they were installing a 3-4, since in their estimation it made both Dorsey and Hali useless. Hali, in most of their estimations, was simply too slow and too rigid to be an OLB. They were wrong, though- the transition just took some time.

There's a pretty good chance that the same people who are assuming that Cunningham will never amount to anything will be the ones complaining the loudest if he ever leaves.

Ok, if you're looking at Cunningham and him having room to improve, I'm with you. I thought you were pointing to something different. My mistake. Apologies for the misunderstanding.