Logan Mankins ~ Opinions on Trade Value?

[Off The Grid]

The question is not what he's worth on the open market, it's what he's worth to NE.

No, it's actually a question of the relationship between the two, and of whether signing him is both realistic and a good idea, considering the Cap.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Can't trade players for draft picks this year, so his trade value to Dallas for #9, or any other team for any other draft pick is zero.

 

[Snake Eyes]

No, it's actually a question of the relationship between the two, and of whether signing him is both realistic and a good idea, considering the Cap.

Regarding "worth", would the cap affect be taken into consideration when making that determination? BB has shown in the past that he does.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Can't trade players now. If we could he's worth a 1st based on talent alone but because he'll demand a big money contract, his trade value is more realistically a 2nd round pick.

 

[WhiZa]

1 ~ Has anyone EVER traded Draft Picks for an O Guard??? Even Steve Hutchinson was free, because the SeaHawks Transitioned him.

Because I'm bored and it may help the topic here's a list of guards that have been traded in recent years:

• The Tampa Bay Buccaneers receive the Chicago Bears 2009 6th Round pick from the Dan Buenning trade.
• Lennie Friedman was traded for a 2007 7th round pick
• Montrae Holland (G) traded (for a fifth round pick in 2010 draft)
• Russ Hochstein (G) traded (for a 2010 7th round pick)
• Detroit traded a 5th round selection and defensive end Robert Henderson to Seattle for guard Rob Sims and a seventh-round selection
• Justin Smiley (G) traded (for a 2011 7th round pick)
• Philadelphia traded this six round pick to Arizona for guard Reggie Wells
• Seattle traded this seventh round pick to Philadelphia for offensive lineman Stacy Andrews
• Tampa Bay traded this 2009 seventh round pick to Pittsburgh for Sean Mahan
• Pete Kendall (G) traded (for fourth-round draft pick in 2008).

No guard has been traded for a pick higher then the 4th round. I don't believe Pete Kendall ever made the pro bowl, but he was solid. You figure Mankins has to be at least worth a 3rd if not more.

 

[bucky]

I REALLY like the Tebucky Jones corollary. Makes a LOT of sense.

Rethinking this comparison a little, Mankins will be traded before the 2012 season. Therefore, the team receiving him will get 1 year of service prior to giving anything up and Mankins will have a chance to impact the quality of that pick. Having said that, I think it's reasonable to ask for a 2012 2nd round pick for him.

 

[andrewgarrr]

You realize that that trade would assess Logan Mankin's value as Pick #15, right??




Thank you kindly, sir.

***

I REALLY like the Tebucky Jones corollary. Makes a LOT of sense.

Yeah I figured it was sort of ridiculous. I think the team should do to Mankins what they did with Asante, should they not come to a long term agreement.

 

[Dobbo]

Yeah I figured it was sort of ridiculous. I think the team should do to Mankins what they did with Asante, should they not come to a long term agreement.

Let him walk?

 

[Snake Eyes]

Let him walk?

As much as it burns me to do it, that might be the best option. IMO, it's all about protecting TFB, as he goes so do our Superbowl dreams, we could potentially send him packing but what do we risk by throwing someone else in at LG? As much as I think Watkins will be AWESOME for us I'm not sure I want to trust a rookie at LG, especially when Brady's been taking a beating the past few years.

OTOH, suppose Vollmer is up to the task at LT and Light can play LG, which seems that it would maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses, and we could have Maneri at RT, there might be some value in shipping Mankins provided we could get good compensation for him.

 

[Off The Grid]

Because I'm bored and it may help the topic here's a list of guards that have been traded in recent years:

• The Tampa Bay Buccaneers receive the Chicago Bears 2009 6th Round pick from the Dan Buenning trade.
• Lennie Friedman was traded for a 2007 7th round pick
• Montrae Holland (G) traded (for a fifth round pick in 2010 draft)
• Russ Hochstein (G) traded (for a 2010 7th round pick)
• Detroit traded a 5th round selection and defensive end Robert Henderson to Seattle for guard Rob Sims and a seventh-round selection
• Justin Smiley (G) traded (for a 2011 7th round pick)
• Philadelphia traded this six round pick to Arizona for guard Reggie Wells
• Seattle traded this seventh round pick to Philadelphia for offensive lineman Stacy Andrews
• Tampa Bay traded this 2009 seventh round pick to Pittsburgh for Sean Mahan
• Pete Kendall (G) traded (for fourth-round draft pick in 2008).

No guard has been traded for a pick higher then the 4th round. I don't believe Pete Kendall ever made the pro bowl, but he was solid. You figure Mankins has to be at least worth a 3rd if not more.

Brother Whiz, you are the COOLEST!!! :rocker:

Note: The 4th Rounder for Kendall was Double Deferred, if I understand correctly: A 2009 4th, in an August 2007 trade. Even if so, that does offer some encouragement regarding Logan's Market Value, if a 10 year No Pro Bowl Vet like Kendall can pull that in.

 

[mcsully]

Because I'm bored and it may help the topic here's a list of guards that have been traded in recent years:

• The Tampa Bay Buccaneers receive the Chicago Bears 2009 6th Round pick from the Dan Buenning trade.
• Lennie Friedman was traded for a 2007 7th round pick
• Montrae Holland (G) traded (for a fifth round pick in 2010 draft)
• Russ Hochstein (G) traded (for a 2010 7th round pick)
• Detroit traded a 5th round selection and defensive end Robert Henderson to Seattle for guard Rob Sims and a seventh-round selection
• Justin Smiley (G) traded (for a 2011 7th round pick)
• Philadelphia traded this six round pick to Arizona for guard Reggie Wells
• Seattle traded this seventh round pick to Philadelphia for offensive lineman Stacy Andrews
• Tampa Bay traded this 2009 seventh round pick to Pittsburgh for Sean Mahan
• Pete Kendall (G) traded (for fourth-round draft pick in 2008).

No guard has been traded for a pick higher then the 4th round. I don't believe Pete Kendall ever made the pro bowl, but he was solid. You figure Mankins has to be at least worth a 3rd if not more.

DUDE!!! AWESOME POST!!!!!! Thanks for the info and taking the timeout to get us this information.. I would agree, Mankins should net us a 3 but I'd rather keep him more year at 10 million and see if we can get a comp pick in the 3rd round

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

As much as it burns me to do it, that might be the best option. IMO, it's all about protecting TFB, as he goes so do our Superbowl dreams, we could potentially send him packing but what do we risk by throwing someone else in at LG? As much as I think Watkins will be AWESOME for us I'm not sure I want to trust a rookie at LG, especially when Brady's been taking a beating the past few years.

OTOH, suppose Vollmer is up to the task at LT and Light can play LG, which seems that it would maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses, and we could have Maneri at RT, there might be some value in shipping Mankins provided we could get good compensation for him.

Is Maneri ready? Will Light, who went to the Pro-Bowl again, be willing to move inside? LT is "his" slot after all.

Some teams are reportedly looking at Watkins as a RT, one claimed he'd instantly be the best in their division in that slot ... Mankins was a RT in college before moving to LT and then inside to LG in the NFL. When assessing his value he is 'one' of the LTs BB reported having on hand when discussing the depth of his O-line last season. Mankins' agility numbers from his Combine are the same as Vollmer's from his Pro-Day. If RT is the strong side run blocker, I don't think anyone will question Mankins' ability there.

This is where people assessing Mankin's trade value get tunnel vision. He plays LG, but Mankins is technically a four position player, maybe five, for NE. There's a reason BB doesn't want to let him go.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Is Maneri ready? Will Light, who went to the Pro-Bowl again, be willing to move inside? LT is "his" slot after all.

Some teams are reportedly looking at Watkins as a RT, one claimed he'd instantly be the best in their division in that slot ... Mankins was a RT in college before moving to LT and then inside to LG in the NFL. When assessing his value he is 'one' of the LTs BB reported having on hand when discussing the depth of his O-line last season. Mankins' agility numbers from his Combine are the same as Vollmer's from his Pro-Day. If RT is the strong side run blocker, I don't think anyone will question Mankins' ability there.

This is where people assessing Mankin's trade value get tunnel vision. He plays LG, but Mankins is technically a four position player, maybe five, for NE. There's a reason BB doesn't want to let him go.

I don’t know anything about Maneri’s readiness, I hope he’s ready to be an absolute stud RT but Dante and BB would probably have a better idea than I do. As for Light, I think he’ll do what he’s told, provided we re-sign him for solid money. Learning multiple positions and is the Patriot way, if the O-line is stronger with Light playing LT one week or LG the next I think he’d be ok with it.

If not there’s nothing to prevent BB from trading/drafting a RT. To me the big thing is how much BB is willing to tolerate in terms of financial demands, it seems there’s a certain amount that the team is willing to pay for a position and if they can’t work something out within that number the player will be gone (Samuel, Branch, Milloy, etc)

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I don’t know anything about Maneri’s readiness, I hope he’s ready to be an absolute stud RT but Dante and BB would probably have a better idea than I do. As for Light, I think he’ll do what he’s told, provided we re-sign him for solid money. Learning multiple positions and is the Patriot way, if the O-line is stronger with Light playing LT one week or LG the next I think he’d be ok with it.

If not there’s nothing to prevent BB from trading/drafting a RT. To me the big thing is how much BB is willing to tolerate in terms of financial demands, it seems there’s a certain amount that the team is willing to pay for a position and if they can’t work something out within that number the player will be gone (Samuel, Branch, Milloy, etc)

There's no question NE will pay what the position/player are worth for NE's budget. Which means a $10m guaranteed price tag slapped on Mankins speaks to what value NE has set on him for this team building period, same as Asante. If they think he's unlikely to sign a new contract, then he at least buys them transition time, which considering the tag may mean they don't see an instant starter in this draft class the way they did in 2005.

 

[townes]

I actually think Mankins is the best guard in football and would like to see him paid as such, if he won't make a deal that does that then i would trade him for first and nothing less, he's one of the 2 best interior linemen in their history. If he walks after this franchise tag then so be it, better to get another year than another pick that isn't real value for him.

 

[mgteich]

Please post this again when trades are again allowed.

For me, we have Mankins for $10M for 2011, probably in a year with no salary cap. I haven't a clue why someone would give us a 1st for the priviledge of paying a guard $10M for one year of play.

As much as I like to imagine that we could recoup our original investment in him ~ a late 1st Rounder ~ all the more so because I think he's worth that and MORE...I'm having a very difficult time convincing myself that we could get much at ALL for him on the Trade Market.

***

There are many variables in his situation, known to all of us, so there's no need to rehash them, here. But what my question boils down to is this:

1 ~ Has anyone EVER traded Draft Picks for an O Guard??? Even Steve Hutchinson was free, because the SeaHawks Transitioned him.

2 ~ When Operations recommence, assuming we still control his services as a Franchise player, and assuming that there is a period of Free Agency before the seasons starts, but after the Draft...What, if anything, might we hope to draw in a Sign + Trade deal, assuming ~ yes, a BIG assumption ~ that that could be worked out?? Honestly, I don't see a 2nd Rounder. I'm not even completely convinced we draw a 3rd Rounder.

3 ~ Might it not be best to keep him on for another year ~ I'm assuming he CAN be kept on ~ and then just let him walk?? That notion flies in the face of a couple of my corps principals: I attribute IMMENSE Value to High Grade Grizzlies, which Mankins obviously is, and I HATE letting a guy slip away, for a deferred 3rd or 4th Rounder, who is clearly worth FAR more than that to our team. But we DO need him for at least one more year, and if settling for a 2013 3rd or 4th Rounder, rather than trading him this Summer for what I believe would probably be a 2012 3rd or 4th Rounder, is the price to pay for keeping him for one more annoying year...it's one I'm willing to pay.

***

The reason I bring this up in here, is because it speaks directly to Draft Strategy. God forbid we part ways with him and need TWO starting O Guards, this month, but if that is indeed the best way to go ~ and it WOULD be nice to be done with this nonsense ~ then that would obviously have a VERY material effect on our Draft Strategy.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Well, I posted the TRADE MANKINS NOW thread for good reason pre draft last year. Last year was the time to move him, not sure why we didnt. A franchise tag in a non cap year is much different than a capped year, no way were we going to keep Cassel and most teams knew it. Dont you gotta think that comp picks are valuable enough to only delve into the FA market on alternating years?? Back on topic, no way we get a first rounder and we get a potential comp 3rd if he stays. I'd say we shoot for a 2nd(or future 2nd). Now the question is if we cant trade him do we keep him in a uncapped year? I gotta say right now we will, shoot we paid Ty Law like $10M to take a year off before he walked right?

 

[jays52]

The best player at his position (excluding special teams) on the planet is always worth a 1st. Given his age and contract he's more likely to garner a 2nd, but he's got four more exceptional years left and that's worth a 1st.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Trade value is probably a high to mid second. If i had a choice years ago to bring in Hutchinson with a first I'd do it in a heartbeat. Problem is Mankins is definately a notch below.

 

[Off The Grid]

Rethinking this comparison a little, Mankins will be traded before the 2012 season. Therefore, the team receiving him will get 1 year of service prior to giving anything up and Mankins will have a chance to impact the quality of that pick. Having said that, I think it's reasonable to ask for a 2012 2nd round pick for him.

The best player at his position (excluding special teams) on the planet is always worth a 1st. Given his age and contract he's more likely to garner a 2nd, but he's got four more exceptional years left and that's worth a 1st.

Trade value is probably a high to mid second. If i had a choice years ago to bring in Hutchinson with a first I'd do it in a heartbeat. Problem is Mankins is definately a notch below.

Excellent!! And very strong Arguments, gents.

Between your persuasive statements, and adding in Brother Whiza's breakdown, I can see the landscape a lot clearer, now.

And it's looking mighty fine.