Logan Mankins ~ Opinions on Trade Value?

[Off The Grid]

As much as I like to imagine that we could recoup our original investment in him ~ a late 1st Rounder ~ all the more so because I think he's worth that and MORE...I'm having a very difficult time convincing myself that we could get much at ALL for him on the Trade Market.

***

There are many variables in his situation, known to all of us, so there's no need to rehash them, here. But what my question boils down to is this:

1 ~ Has anyone EVER traded Draft Picks for an O Guard??? Even Steve Hutchinson was free, because the SeaHawks Transitioned him.

2 ~ When Operations recommence, assuming we still control his services as a Franchise player, and assuming that there is a period of Free Agency before the seasons starts, but after the Draft...What, if anything, might we hope to draw in a Sign + Trade deal, assuming ~ yes, a BIG assumption ~ that that could be worked out?? Honestly, I don't see a 2nd Rounder. I'm not even completely convinced we draw a 3rd Rounder.

3 ~ Might it not be best to keep him on for another year ~ I'm assuming he CAN be kept on ~ and then just let him walk?? That notion flies in the face of a couple of my corps principals: I attribute IMMENSE Value to High Grade Grizzlies, which Mankins obviously is, and I HATE letting a guy slip away, for a deferred 3rd or 4th Rounder, who is clearly worth FAR more than that to our team. But we DO need him for at least one more year, and if settling for a 2013 3rd or 4th Rounder, rather than trading him this Summer for what I believe would probably be a 2012 3rd or 4th Rounder, is the price to pay for keeping him for one more annoying year...it's one I'm willing to pay.

***

The reason I bring this up in here, is because it speaks directly to Draft Strategy. God forbid we part ways with him and need TWO starting O Guards, this month, but if that is indeed the best way to go ~ and it WOULD be nice to be done with this nonsense ~ then that would obviously have a VERY material effect on our Draft Strategy.

 

[andrewgarrr]

#60 + Mankins = #9 (Cowboys)

MAYBE I'd do it.

 

[supafly]

You see a 3rd or 4th rounder for Mankins? I'm surprised at that one for sure.

I would not trade him for anything less than a 2nd round pick.

I would rather have him here for another year, and let him walk for a 3rd/4th comp pick next year than trade him for anything less than a 2nd rounder. We can get a 2nd rounder for sure. I've seen some very good posters whom I respect tremendously say that we can get a 1st AND a 3rd. I do not agree with that, but I do agree that we can get at least a 2nd. He is now the premiere guard in the entire NFL, and even though it may not be a position of high demand, his reputation speaks for itself. We'd get a 2nd for sure IMO.

I still believe that we can work something out with him, although I realize that I am in the minority. If the rumors are true that BB wants him, and has been lobbying for him, then I think there's at least a chance that we can reach an agreement. It seems to me that we will offer him a lot closer to what he wanted, and Mankins will end up taking it. That's my hope, and also my opinion as to what will happen. In the end, both sides will be compromising, but the front office will do the bulk of the giving in. They may not meet Mankins demands exactly, but I think they'll come a lot closer to what he wanted. That should make them close enough to finally put this stuff behind them.

 

[MaineMan]

As much as I like to imagine that we could recoup our original investment in him ~ a late 1st Rounder ~ all the more so because I think he's worth that and MORE...I'm having a very difficult time convincing myself that we could get much at ALL for him on the Trade Market.

***

There are many variables in his situation, known to all of us, so there's no need to rehash them, here. But what my question boils down to is this:

1 ~ Has anyone EVER traded Draft Picks for an O Guard??? Even Steve Hutchinson was free, because the SeaHawks Transitioned him.

2 ~ When Operations recommence, assuming we still control his services as a Franchise player, and assuming that there is a period of Free Agency before the seasons starts, but after the Draft...What, if anything, might we hope to draw in a Sign + Trade deal, assuming ~ yes, a BIG assumption ~ that that could be worked out?? Honestly, I don't see a 2nd Rounder. I'm not even completely convinced we draw a 3rd Rounder.

3 ~ Might it not be best to keep him on for another year ~ I'm assuming he CAN be kept on ~ and then just let him walk?? That notion flies in the face of a couple of my corps principals: I attribute IMMENSE Value to High Grade Grizzlies, which Mankins obviously is, and I HATE letting a guy slip away, for a deferred 3rd or 4th Rounder, who is clearly worth FAR more than that to our team. But we DO need him for at least one more year, and if settling for a 2013 3rd or 4th Rounder, rather than trading him this Summer for what I believe would probably be a 2012 3rd or 4th Rounder, is the price to pay for keeping him for one more annoying year...it's one I'm willing to pay.

***

The reason I bring this up in here, is because it speaks directly to Draft Strategy. God forbid we part ways with him and need TWO starting O Guards, this month, but if that is indeed the best way to go ~ and it WOULD be nice to be done with this nonsense ~ then that would obviously have a VERY material effect on our Draft Strategy.

Agree pretty much about his value in picks. With a new CBA appearing unlikely before the draft, 2011 picks are virtually off the table at this point, so we'd have to consider pick value in terms of 2012 and 2013. My feeling is that a 2012 3rd for Mankins is entirely possible, but a 2nd-rounder, if possible at all, would likely be in 2013.

This all assumes, of course, that the Pats actually retain his rights after all the legal wrangling and a new CBA. Personally, I'd be drafting under the assumption that Mankins is gone for 2011, one way or another. On the bright side, if Mankins leaves as an unrestricted FA and comp picks are still part of a new CBA, we'd still likely see a 3rd round value (in 2012) for his contract with his new team (offset by our own FA signings, if any).

In terms of potential NFC trade destinations, I'd guess ARZ, DAL, WAS, the Giants, Philly, CHI and Green Bay as most likely to have the need. I think the Pats would like to avoid Mankins going to an AFC rival such as the Broncos, Browns or Indy, though it's not impossible.

The above "short list" would then have to be filtered through which teams would be willing to pay his contract demands and, then, which of those remaining might Mankins be totally unwilling to play for.

 

[Dobbo]

#60 + Mankins = #9 (Cowboys)

MAYBE I'd do it.

I think that would be an excellent deal... dammed CBA!

Re-sign him (and Matt Light) i think is the most likely scenario in my head...

 

[bucky]

#60 + Mankins = #9 (Cowboys)

MAYBE I'd do it.

Most of us clearly have a skewed perception of Logan's trade value. The OP's question was a great one - has an OG ever been traded for a day 1 or even day 2 pick? Not that I can remember. However, paying Mankins $10+ mil doesn't make sense considering that it's almost 50% more than the highest paid Guards in the NFL. So I have to believe BB sees some trade value in him. I'd like to think we can get a 2012 2nd for him, but maybe we can use the Tebucky Jones trade as precedent - 2012 3rd and 2013 4th.

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

Most of us clearly have a skewed perception of Logan's trade value. The OP's question was a great one - has an OG ever been traded for a day 1 or even day 2 pick? Not that I can remember. However, paying Mankins $10+ mil doesn't make sense considering that it's almost 50% more than the highest paid Guards in the NFL. So I have to believe BB sees some trade value in him. I'd like to think we can get a 2012 2nd for him, but maybe we can use the Tebucky Jones trade as precedent - 2012 3rd and 2013 4th.

Point taken on the compensation for teams trading guards. I had no idea that that was indeed the case and it was actually pretty surprising.

My counter-point, is that you are now seeing teams drop 20+ million in guaranteed money on guards, e.g. Evans in NOLA and the afformentioned Steve Hutchinson.

Now, if a team is willing to compensate a guard in such a manner, why would they then balk at giving up considerable value in terms of draft capital when they are already willing to invest considerable value in terms of guaranteed money?

I think he's worth a 1st round pick.

 

[mcsully]

As much as I like to imagine that we could recoup our original investment in him ~ a late 1st Rounder ~ all the more so because I think he's worth that and MORE...I'm having a very difficult time convincing myself that we could get much at ALL for him on the Trade Market.

***

There are many variables in his situation, known to all of us, so there's no need to rehash them, here. But what my question boils down to is this:

1 ~ Has anyone EVER traded Draft Picks for an O Guard??? Even Steve Hutchinson was free, because the SeaHawks Transitioned him.

We had a discussion about Mankins about a month ago and I asked the same question and no one came back with anything so I think its safe to say if it happened, it was very rare.


Snake's right, anything less than a second rouder really wouldn't be worth it. If we wait a year after he leaves, we'll probably get a 3rd or 4th rounder. Might as well keep him around for the duration and use his skill set.

#60 + Mankins = #9 (Cowboys)

MAYBE I'd do it.

If the Cowboys called up and offered this, the Pats better jump on this and buy a 1st class tkt for Mankins.

Unfort this isn't madden and Mankins isn't worth as much as you perceive. In your scenario Mankins would have to net us a top 15 pick.

While I think the Cowboys and Redskins could definitely be trading, I think we'll need to offer more.

 

[mcsully]

I think he's worth a 1st round pick.

I might see this but it would have to be a Seymour deal (where we have to wait two years)

 

[Off The Grid]

#60 + Mankins = #9 (Cowboys)

MAYBE I'd do it.

You realize that that trade would assess Logan Mankin's value as Pick #15, right??

Most of us clearly have a skewed perception of Logan's trade value. The OP's question was a great one - has an OG ever been traded for a day 1 or even day 2 pick? Not that I can remember. However, paying Mankins $10+ mil doesn't make sense considering that it's almost 50% more than the highest paid Guards in the NFL. So I have to believe BB sees some trade value in him. I'd like to think we can get a 2012 2nd for him, but maybe we can use the Tebucky Jones trade as precedent - 2012 3rd and 2013 4th.

Thank you kindly, sir.

***

I REALLY like the Tebucky Jones corollary. Makes a LOT of sense.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

When considering trading Mankins think to yourself, who in this draft one I take to replace him? and then set his value according to where you would have to be to get that replacement. IF no new CBA is reached and the union wins and the lockout is lifted, and the NFL resumes operationing under last years rules, guess who gets screwed (again) yup Mankins.

Sign him to a long term deal and get this overwith.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The question is not what he's worth on the open market, it's what he's worth to NE. The Patriots have already spoken on that issue, a lot.

Should Mankins be foolish enough to turn down a guaranteed $10M and hold out again, all bets are off in terms of acceptable compensation. Get whatever the market will bear and move on.

I suspect Mankins will not hold out this season, it serves no purpose, he's already seen NE wants to play hard ball and his losses would be nearly 3-times last season's. Play the season under the franchise tag and go on the open market next year if you absolutely do not wish to re-sign with NE.

BB wants him here, once the NFL and NFLPA get their heads out of cranial-rectal diversion it seems there is still hope Mankins can be re-signed to a reasonable contract for both sides. If not, $10M isn't that bad for him for this season. Play ball.

 

[b72s]

#60 + Mankins = #9 (Cowboys)

MAYBE I'd do it.

Here here I like

 

[JoeShmoe]

I think both Mankins and Kraft will get over themselves and a deal will be done, probably loaded with incentives

 

[bucky]

When considering trading Mankins think to yourself, who in this draft one I take to replace him? and then set his value according to where you would have to be to get that replacement. IF no new CBA is reached and the union wins and the lockout is lifted, and the NFL resumes operationing under last years rules, guess who gets screwed (again) yup Mankins.

Sign him to a long term deal and get this overwith.

Another thing to consider is the new CBA and the cap that comes with it. If the cap is high, I can see a high-income team giving him a Evans-line contract and trading a 2nd for him. However, if the cap comes in low, teams will have to rethink their spending and Logan may not see the kind of money the Pats offered him last year even if he hits the open market.

 

[Off The Grid]

Point taken on the compensation for teams trading guards. I had no idea that that was indeed the case and it was actually pretty surprising.

My counter-point, is that you are now seeing teams drop 20+ million in guaranteed money on guards, e.g. Evans in NOLA and the afformentioned Steve Hutchinson.

Now, if a team is willing to compensate a guard in such a manner, why would they then balk at giving up considerable value in terms of draft capital when they are already willing to invest considerable value in terms of guaranteed money?

I think he's worth a 1st round pick.

That is a VERY good Argument, and it precisely your line of reasoning, there, that had me ~ for a very long time ~ inclined to think that another team would, indeed, be willing to part with such Draft Capital, as well. After all, they always do, whenever an expensive Quarter Back, Running Back, or Wide Receiver ~ like Wes Welker!! ~ is traded for or signed and traded, right??

Other positions, too: O Tackle, D Tackle, Defensive End, perhaps Corner Back??

But I don't think that tendency extends to every position.

I find that very strange, but not inconsistent: The positions I've mentioned ~ the ones that have historical precedent of teams paying through the nose with money AND Draft picks to acquire All Pro talent ~ are also the positions that teams are most likely to spend the VERY highest level of Draft Capital on, in the first place: Top Ten Types.

O Guards, on the other hand, RARELY see such lofty investment.

As such, I'm suspecting that their Trade Values ~ even that of Logan Mankins ~ will likewise be constrained.

 

[b72s]

with the lockout can we actually trade players in this draft???

sorry for repeat question

 

[Off The Grid]

Agree pretty much about his value in picks. With a new CBA appearing unlikely before the draft, 2011 picks are virtually off the table at this point, so we'd have to consider pick value in terms of 2012 and 2013. My feeling is that a 2012 3rd for Mankins is entirely possible, but a 2nd-rounder, if possible at all, would likely be in 2013.

This all assumes, of course, that the Pats actually retain his rights after all the legal wrangling and a new CBA. Personally, I'd be drafting under the assumption that Mankins is gone for 2011, one way or another. On the bright side, if Mankins leaves as an unrestricted FA and comp picks are still part of a new CBA, we'd still likely see a 3rd round value (in 2012) for his contract with his new team (offset by our own FA signings, if any).

In terms of potential NFC trade destinations, I'd guess ARZ, DAL, WAS, the Giants, Philly, CHI and Green Bay as most likely to have the need. I think the Pats would like to avoid Mankins going to an AFC rival such as the Broncos, Browns or Indy, though it's not impossible.

The above "short list" would then have to be filtered through which teams would be willing to pay his contract demands and, then, which of those remaining might Mankins be totally unwilling to play for.

Excellent. Many of my ideas are decidedly Off the Grid, hence the screen name, and this one is no different, as I expect most folks ~ as Brother Bucky mentions ~ have a far loftier perception of Logan's Market Value than I do. It's gratifying to see that I am, on this issue, in accord with other fine minds such as yours.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

with the lockout can we actually trade players in this draft???

sorry for repeat question

The only trades currently allowed are picks-for-picks.

 

[Off The Grid]

When considering trading Mankins think to yourself, who in this draft one I take to replace him? and then set his value according to where you would have to be to get that replacement. IF no new CBA is reached and the union wins and the lockout is lifted, and the NFL resumes operationing under last years rules, guess who gets screwed (again) yup Mankins.

Sign him to a long term deal and get this overwith.

Sadly, it's not that simple.

Were that it was.

Mankins has Gone Rogue on us.