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Does anyone see the possibility of a late round TE?

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supafly

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Okay, obviously we all know about the change that took place last year in the TE aspect of the offense, but recent news has told us of 2 pretty serious and significant injuries and surgeries. Both Aaron Hernandez (hip surgery) and now Alge Crumpler (significant shoulder surgery + age) have gone down, and we aren't sure when exactly they will be back. More importantly, we don't know to what extent, and if they will be able to contribute the same the first year back, a la Brady, Welker, etc.

It seems we are all in the consensus of being worried about Ty Warren playing up to par, so why wouldn't we be worried about Hernandez and Crumpler in the same regard?

As crazy as it sounds--does anyone think there is any chance of Belichick grabbing another TE, in the mid to late rounds? And I'm not just talking about the one that he probably would've grabbed already before the surgeries, I'm talking about someone who can actually come in and contribute, should Gronk get hurt throughout the year, or Hernandez/Crumpler not playing to full potential, or even coming back at all.

Is there a possibility? And if so, who and when (predictions/comments)?
 
I think that the worry wart in me is disappointed that an area of obvious strength may not be viewed as such--at least as of this moment.

So far this offseason, the 2 areas where our team was strongest (besides the obvious QB position--who is also recovering from a surgery) have both taken a bit of a hit in that regard. I know that no matter what we will still be strong at safety, and should be just fine at TE too, but it hasn't been the best of news.

Looking forward to good news in the draft, and better news in the labor negotiations. Apologies for any pessimistic views, once again I can be somewhat of a worrier
 
Okay, obviously we all know about the change that took place last year in the TE aspect of the offense, but recent news has told us of 2 pretty serious and significant injuries and surgeries. Both Aaron Hernandez (hip surgery) and now Alge Crumpler (significant shoulder surgery + age) have gone down, and we aren't sure when exactly they will be back. More importantly, we don't know to what extent, and if they will be able to contribute the same the first year back, a la Brady, Welker, etc.

It seems we are all in the consensus of being worried about Ty Warren playing up to par, so why wouldn't we be worried about Hernandez and Crumpler in the same regard?

As crazy as it sounds--does anyone think there is any chance of Belichick grabbing another TE, in the mid to late rounds? And I'm not just talking about the one that he probably would've grabbed already before the surgeries, I'm talking about someone who can actually come in and contribute, should Gronk get hurt throughout the year, or Hernandez/Crumpler not playing to full potential, or even coming back at all.

Is there a possibility? And if so, who and when (predictions/comments)?

I certainly want BB to pick up Lee Smith and have Dante train him as an O-Lineman like we're doing with Maneri.
 
I think someone like Chales Clay TE Tulsa. Clay can play the zhbsack role and RB. Manieri can always be used as a blocking TE.
 
Okay, obviously we all know about the change that took place last year in the TE aspect of the offense, but recent news has told us of 2 pretty serious and significant injuries and surgeries. Both Aaron Hernandez (hip surgery) and now Alge Crumpler (significant shoulder surgery + age) have gone down, and we aren't sure when exactly they will be back. More importantly, we don't know to what extent, and if they will be able to contribute the same the first year back, a la Brady, Welker, etc.

It seems we are all in the consensus of being worried about Ty Warren playing up to par, so why wouldn't we be worried about Hernandez and Crumpler in the same regard?

As crazy as it sounds--does anyone think there is any chance of Belichick grabbing another TE, in the mid to late rounds? And I'm not just talking about the one that he probably would've grabbed already before the surgeries, I'm talking about someone who can actually come in and contribute, should Gronk get hurt throughout the year, or Hernandez/Crumpler not playing to full potential, or even coming back at all.

Is there a possibility? And if so, who and when (predictions/comments)?
I'm a contrarian from the "consensus" concerned over Ty Warren.

I expect NE to be watchful for TE values beginning in the third round and continuing after the draft. Virgil Green and Julius Thomas would be nice complements to Hernandez/Gronkowski, both a athletic receivers with decent hands, both are willing blockers who with good coaching and hard work will likely fall closer to Gronk on the scale between he and Hernandez.

Lee Smith and Will Yeatman and more Crumpler-like.

I like Zach Pianalto, just note that the poor kid is snake-bitten with his injury history.

It's not a priority, but an opportunity.
 
There is always a possibility of a late round TE.
 
No real reason to exclude the possibility. BB seems always to have had an extra TE or two on the 80-man off-season roster and seems always to be shuffling one or another on/off the P/S. Similar to DBs, most often these have been relatively late-round picks, UDFAs, SFA's, whatever.

It's been said repeatedly that this is a weak TE class and it seems true that there aren't any (a couple?) obvious elite prospects, but it seems like there are maybe 8-10 guys who could develop into either solid receiving TEs or solid blocking TEs. Then, too, there doesn't appear to be a huge demand for TEs at the moment, so there should be a couple decent developmental prospects (including those Box identified) available after round three.
 
Just asking because I don't know -- some of the measureables (i.e. VJ, 10s, 20s, 3Cone, BroadJump..) that used to evaluate pass rushers are better for the TE's in this draft class than the DL/LB. Is it worth taking TE'S in the mid to late round picks and converting them into pass rushers ? - i.e. similar to Conner Barwin, JJ Watt...I'm thinking Virgil Green and Rob Housler as potential candiates..
 
Just asking because I don't know -- some of the measureables (i.e. VJ, 10s, 20s, 3Cone, BroadJump..) that used to evaluate pass rushers are better for the TE's in this draft class than the DL/LB. Is it worth taking TE'S in the mid to late round picks and converting them into pass rushers ? - i.e. similar to Conner Barwin, JJ Watt...I'm thinking Virgil Green and Rob Housler as potential candiates..

IDK if this has worked very often (ever?) with guys by the time they get to the NFL level, at least recently.

OTOH, it's an interesting thought. BB once said he wasn't in favor of roster expansion because it would probably just increase the number of specialist players. However, if he had a couple extra bodies to work with, I could see him picking up a guy who could possibly play as both a sub-rusher AND an extra blocking TE if he was good on special teams.
 
Just asking because I don't know -- some of the measureables (i.e. VJ, 10s, 20s, 3Cone, BroadJump..) that used to evaluate pass rushers are better for the TE's in this draft class than the DL/LB. Is it worth taking TE'S in the mid to late round picks and converting them into pass rushers ? - i.e. similar to Conner Barwin, JJ Watt...I'm thinking Virgil Green and Rob Housler as potential candiates..
Some of those kids did play DE in high school as well as TE (LB/RB or S/RB is not uncommon, as is WR/CB and OL/DT). Still, they don't develop the hand fighting skills needed by an edge rusher, so I'd say not at the NFL level - still, we saw BB plug Arrington in on the edge because he stood out in camp when given the opportunity to blitz. If a TE/WR/OL was playing DE/OLB for the scout team and showed some ability ... :confused2: ... draft one for that role (no), but a discovered talent (yes).
 
IDK if this has worked very often (ever?) with guys by the time they get to the NFL level, at least recently.

OTOH, it's an interesting thought. BB once said he wasn't in favor of roster expansion because it would probably just increase the number of specialist players. However, if he had a couple extra bodies to work with, I could see him picking up a guy who could possibly play as both a sub-rusher AND an extra blocking TE if he was good on special teams.

I agree from number of roster spots point of view, any kind of conversion project needs to be a good special teams contributor.
 
Some of those kids did play DE in high school as well as TE (LB/RB or S/RB is not uncommon, as is WR/CB and OL/DT). Still, they don't develop the hand fighting skills needed by an edge rusher, so I'd say not at the NFL level - still, we saw BB plug Arrington in on the edge because he stood out in camp when given the opportunity to blitz. If a TE/WR/OL was playing DE/OLB for the scout team and showed some ability ... :confused2: ... draft one for that role (no), but a discovered talent (yes).

You bring up a great point that some of the kids probably played multiple positions in high school and the colleges already identified their strongest position. I guess there could be some hidden talent behind the established starters but who knows.
 
I agree with all comments.

We use all 3 of our tight ends. To me, that means that we could use a 4th a backup and developmental pick. I agree that we will be considering TE from the 3rd round onward (as we are for safety).

I'm a contrarian from the "consensus" concerned over Ty Warren.

I expect NE to be watchful for TE values beginning in the third round and continuing after the draft. Virgil Green and Julius Thomas would be nice complements to Hernandez/Gronkowski, both a athletic receivers with decent hands, both are willing blockers who with good coaching and hard work will likely fall closer to Gronk on the scale between he and Hernandez.

Lee Smith and Will Yeatman and more Crumpler-like.

I like Zach Pianalto, just note that the poor kid is snake-bitten with his injury history.

It's not a priority, but an opportunity.
 
There is always a possibility of a late round TE.

I'll be the one to go further and say there's always a possibility of an early draft TE

TE is a huge position to Belichick on many different levels. We've seen him expend multiple 1st round draft picks there, with mixed results.

If there's a guy that Belichick wants - and I suspect there might be one or two TEs he wants - he'll grab him if he can and that could happen just about anywhere in the draft
 
Okay, obviously we all know about the change that took place last year in the TE aspect of the offense, but recent news has told us of 2 pretty serious and significant injuries and surgeries. Both Aaron Hernandez (hip surgery) and now Alge Crumpler (significant shoulder surgery + age) have gone down, and we aren't sure when exactly they will be back. More importantly, we don't know to what extent, and if they will be able to contribute the same the first year back, a la Brady, Welker, etc.

It seems we are all in the consensus of being worried about Ty Warren playing up to par, so why wouldn't we be worried about Hernandez and Crumpler in the same regard?

As crazy as it sounds--does anyone think there is any chance of Belichick grabbing another TE, in the mid to late rounds? And I'm not just talking about the one that he probably would've grabbed already before the surgeries, I'm talking about someone who can actually come in and contribute, should Gronk get hurt throughout the year, or Hernandez/Crumpler not playing to full potential, or even coming back at all.

Is there a possibility? And if so, who and when (predictions/comments)?

Splendid idea for a thread, sir.

I've been aggressively espousing the idea of augmenting our unusual advantage at Tight End for a long time, and these concerns exacerbate that desire.

For the sake of accurately describing a player's true role, I like to break down Tight End into 3 emerging "sub positions":

Tight End ~ Alge Crumpler ~ 80-90% Blocking ~ 10-20% Receiving.
Wing Back ~ Rob Gronkowski ~ 50/50 ~ often In Motion.
Wing End ~ Aaron Hernandez ~ 10-20% Blocking ~ 80-90% Receiving. But a 40/60 guy would actually be much more dangerous.

I favor our exploiting the breach we've opened up on the strategic front, with the rise of Crumpler, Gronkowski, and Hernandez, last year. I believe that the more Super Hybrids ~ like Gronkowski + Hernandez ~ that we can bring on the field, the better. And I believe that if we make the moves to turn our O Line from good to Great, in conjunction with that...we will become UNSTOPPABLE.

For a few years, anyway. And that's as much as anyone can ask.


Prospects on My Wish List


Tight End


Will Yeatman ~ 6.6/275 ~ Free Agent

Will Yeatman is my favorite, here: an ADP Free Agent who I have us drafting in the 7th, in my current Mock. He's a formerly devout LaCrosse player. 6.6/275. He is an exceptional athlete, and raw as ALL get out, but has IMMENSE potential not only as an All Pro Blocker, but as a pretty good receiver, as well. Wes Bunting has suggested that he might be better served converting to O Tackle, a la my 2010 Super Binkie and current Patriot, Steve Maneri.

I'm not so sure that it's the best way to go: I place great value on a Tight End who can ~ potentially ~ develop into the weapon that I believe Yeatman could. And there're some exceptional O Tackles coming on line, next year, to say nothing of my current Super Binkie, Willie Smith, who is, amazingly, still looking at an ADP of the 5th or 6th round. But considering that Yeatman only just recently got off the LaCrosse ~ where I presume he needed to aggressively keep the pounds off ~ and is already currently listed at 275, it strikes me that he might much more naturally put on another 30 pounds than, say, Steven Maneri, himself.

Maneri was listed at about 265 last year, currently at 290. And while that number's been up there for a while, giving me hope that it's up beyond 300, where it seems that it needs to be...I have my doubts as to whether he's going to be able to project the violent, explosive blocking he produced, as a college Tight End, to an equally violent and explosive Pro O Tackle. Mind you: Steve Maneri actually made a point to target us, last Autumn, and that is certainly encouraging.

Lee Smith ~ 6.6/265 ~ 7th Round

Lee Smith carries the same concerns in my eyes, being 6.6/265, the same weight as Maneri, a year ago. To get to 305, Maneri or Smith would have to increase their body mass by a full 15 PERCENT. I am just very skeptical that either will be able to do so in a way that will allow them to retain the explosiveness and violence that rocketed them both up my Boards in the first place. In any case, Lee Smith, one of my very first Binkies in this year's Draft, back in Autumn, remains on my list, and even gets a bump up, with Crumpler's serious concerns.

I should also add, though, that if the Rosters do not get expanded to 60 ~ and there is little reason, at this point, to think that they will be ~ I might prefer to reduce or eliminate the presence of the predominantly blocking ~ Alge Crumpler ~ Tight End from the roster, in favor of expanding the other two roles. It seems to me that a Tight End who is an equally serious threat to Block OR Receive ~ the Rob Gronkowski "Wing Back" position ~ is FAR more menacing than a guy, like Crumpler, who is almost certainly going to be blocking, on any given play.


Wing Back


Jordan Cameron ~ 6.5/255 ~ 3rd Round

Jordan Cameron is FLYING up the boards, of course, which is a damned shame, because he was looking phenomenal as a Deep Late Rounder. Now, his current ADP is the 3rd. Even there, however, he'd be a bargain, for he has an INTOXICATING receiving skill set, and the perfect frame to become an exceptional Blocker in time. Now he is a VERY recent BasketBall conversion ~ just caught his first pass just this past year!! ~ so he is raw as hell...But he is catching on RAPIDLY, and carries unmistakable Star Potential.

Brett Brackett ~ 6.6/240 ~ Free Agent

Brackett is currently lighter than you would like for Wing Back, though he's certainly got the frame to put on another 20 pounds. He's a former high school Quarter Back and college Wide Receiver, and he's not too fast, either. Even so, I think the kid is a really natural, instinctive route runner and receiver who could be very effective in the short passing game. And his unusual resume should be of great help in mastering those aspects of the game. Best of all, though, is his well earned reputation as a violent, passionate, and FEROCIOUS blocker.


Wing End


Lance Kendricks ~ 6.3/243 ~ 3rd Round

Lance Kendricks is a kid I am just flat out CRAZY about ~ a true Priority Binky. His size makes him a Wing End, not a Wing Back, but this guy is an absolutely FEROCIOUS Blocker. Everything I read about him lauds LAVISH praise about his tenacity, his passion, his technique, and his FEROCITY as a Blocker. And as a Receiver, he is DEADLY: Good Burst, superior Navigational Skills, excellent Speed, and soft hands, but what makes him truly dangerous are his INSTINCTS. I'd see him as more of a 60/40 Receiver/Blocker than Hernandez ~ my Alpha Priority Super Binkie, last year ~ making him much more of an Hybrid, and, therefore, much more dangerous.

Julius Thomas ~ 6.5/245 ~ 5th Round

Julius Thomas has a startlingly similar story to Jordan Cameron: A BasketBall conversion who didn't catch his first pass until just this past year. High Upside. Raw as hell, but learning VERY rapidly. He doesn't quite have the size or speed that Cameron has, though. And he's rawer. Even so, the size + speed combo is very intriguing.
 
Jordan Cameron is FLYING up the boards, of course, which is a damned shame, because he was looking phenomenal as a Deep Late Rounder. Now, his current ADP is the 3rd. Even there, however, he'd be a bargain, for he has an INTOXICATING receiving skill set, and the perfect frame to become an exceptional Blocker in time. Now he is a VERY recent BasketBall conversion ~ just caught his first pass just this past year!! ~ so he is raw as hell...But he is catching on RAPIDLY, and carries unmistakable Star Potential.

I'm assuming his flight is based entirely on potential? I know GRONK was raw, but we're talking about a guy with 16 catches for less than 10 YPC.
 
I'm assuming his flight is based entirely on potential? I know GRONK was raw, but we're talking about a guy with 16 catches for less than 10 YPC.

You are 100% correct, sir: Potential, not Production.

And a sterling Combine, which was unfortunate in that it vaulted him closer to his true Value.

Personally, I like the bet, but I certainly concede that it is a gamble, as are all decisions in Life.
 
Wait...so there's a Cameron Jordan, and a Jordan Cameron too ?

That's mildly amusing to me, as it doesn't take much these days.
 
On one hand Crumpler is temporary, so a roster spot for a TE will open up in the near future. The thing is unless there is an injury to one of the three TE then it's doubtful there will be an opening this year. So unless somebody gets hurt that could result in a situation like last year with Larsen: draft a guy, cut him and hope to get him on the Practice Squad.

Yes, I do realize that was not the intention when they drafted Larsen, but the point is that drafting a TE is a dicey situation, almost setting yourself up for a wasted draft pick. Take somebody in the 3rd-4th-5th, and unless you go with four TE on the 53-man roster then he's probably going to be gone and not coming back after final cuts because somebody else will sign him (short of a phantom IR). Take somebody in the last round or as an UDFA and it's a slim chance he'll ever be as productive as Crumpler was last year.

Of course drafting a TE is a possibility, but I would not expect the Pats to draft one until the 7th round.
 
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