idle thoughts....

[jsull87]

We focus alot on what we can add through the draft next year. The most important additions are likely to be Leigh Bodden and Ty Warren. It is unlikely that any draftee would help more.

With regard to the OL, the best choices out there in free agency or the draft may be Light and Mankins. Sure we can add a draft choice or two at these positions, but we have players that we KNOW can do the job.

I think this sentiment about next years potential echoes what my thoughts are. When trying to figure out what position to use our 1st 3 picks which are basically all 1st rounders with the form Carolina has displayed... i can't see any position on the roster where i can go yep... we need that filled if we are going to be a good team. you could say DE.. but Warren is back. Secondary depth... Bodden is back and you would hope Butler has progressed enough to be challenging Arrington and Wilhite. Our OL is Solid, our RB's, WR and TE's have all been solid and are by no means a weakness losing us games. I think this is one of those cases of a true just go out and Pick the best player available because really we have enough good bodies to cover the positions we don't Draft.

Maybe the one exception with crable being cut again is OLB but that is once again dependent on Cunningham Ninko and TBC who have all once again been serviceable.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ken - Great stuff as always.

However, we'll have to disagree on Koppen. While he did have a good game against Hampton, he's been highly inconsistent the last 2 years and he's blown more than a few blocks..

The Pats are going to need to look at OT, OG, and C in the draft, though OG might be less of a priority if Mankins is re-signed and with the way Connolly has played.

 

[Bella*chick]

I really hope we will be re-signing Mankins. It really bothers me to hear the local media discussing bringing him to the cesspool down here in D.C.

 

[jsull87]

I really hope we will be re-signing Mankins. It really bothers me to hear the local media discussing bringing him to the cesspool down here in D.C.

I really think unless they have agreed otherwise. We'll franchise Mankins next year so we will at least have him one more year. He did seem to have a solid game out there

 

[apple strudel]

I really think unless they have agreed otherwise. We'll franchise Mankins next year so we will at least have him one more year. He did seem to have a solid game out there

Gonna make for one ornery cowpoke.

 

[Ring 6]

I never rate any of my own threads....and I resent the implication.

Its quite possible that the software of the cite has learned to 5star any thread you start

 

[mgteich]

Do you really think the patrtiots will pay Mankins between $10M and $11m ofr one year's service? And do you really think that the patriots would take that much cap money out of the early free agency market?

I really think unless they have agreed otherwise. We'll franchise Mankins next year so we will at least have him one more year. He did seem to have a solid game out there

 

[Ring 6]

....Just some comments on some stuff I haven't read or heard much about. Pardon any redundancy.

Nice post Ken. I'm going to select a couple items to address. although everyone is a great discussion point.

1.Matt Light

You can always count on Matt Light playing well every time this boars starts ripping hm. Contrary to popular belief his perfromance against top pass rushers has been excellent. I did the numbers last year, and maybe I can find them for the Freeney example, which IIRC was soemthing like Freeney having 2 sacks in his last 7 games vs Light.

5. I was almost certain that when we drafted next April, the first pick off our board would be the best 3-4 DE candidate available. Now I'm not so sure. Right now the Pats are using so many different DL groupings it hard on TV to keep track of who exactly is in there, But it looks like Deadrick and Brace have passed Gerard Warren, or are at least interchangeable with him. As Deadrick and Brace are seemingly on the upswing, Wilfolk just entering his prime, and Wright, Pryor, and Warren as effective depth. Maybe taking a DE that high might NOT be the best use of that asset. Wouldn't Ty Warren who is likely to come back better since he'll be truly healthy for the first time a few years, be LIKE that impact draft pick, only without the learning curve.

Warren missing 2010 could be a blessing in disguise because he will be 100% for the first time in a while, and we have gotten experience for the youngsters. I REALLY like what I have seen from Brace. I think he will develop into a Ty Warren type of player. With Deadreick and Wright also here, not to mention Pryor, and the youth and upside a high pick isnt necessary, but if the right player is there, BB will take him.

6. Still picking a RB in that slot (whatever it is) doesn't look like a great idea either. There are just too many examples of effective running backs being had in the lower rounds. BJGE is a perfect example right here, but so are Peyton Hillis, and the kid in TB, Blunt (IIRC), and many many others. We definitely NEED an infusion of young RBs, but is it worth a #1?

Seems a veteran FA is more likely than a draft choice.

I can't help but think how our secondary will look when Bodden comes back. I could be that our current "pro bowl" Safety might be the 4th best player on the back line....and lots of more experienced depth for all the various sub D's. A VERY exciting prospect

Its hard to standout on our defense. Its a team defense concept and players are asked to do everything required of their position and be complete. Many defenses build schemes around the strengths of the players and that gets the players attention. That said, McCourty and Chung show up and get attention. Thats reason enough to know they are special.

10. Rothlessberger might be a horrible person and an un-indicted sex offender,

Since you mentioned it, a chance for a side rant. Why is it that when athletes who are bad people do well on the playing feel the media talks of their great story of redemption? I heard it all day with Vick. His redemption isnt how he plays football, its not because an awful human. Playing well has nothing to do with that. Sorry, way OT



.

We are a good team, but not good enough YET to be able to overcome sloppy play. If we bring our A game, and follow the plan, we will win this game at home.

I look at this from the other side. We may have never been good enough to overcome sloppy play but part of why we were so good is that we were never sloppy. Especially in the Championship years. It may be that from 05-09 we became better at overcomng sloppiness, yet became much more sloppy.

14. I know we aren't supposed to look ahead, but I am very worried about the Detroit game.

The record vs sub 500 teams in the Brady era is remarkably good. Good to the tune of the Browns loss may have been something like the 3rd ever.

15. You will never convince me that Merriweather committed PI on that play. It looked to me that it was the WR who initiated the contact. I know that PFW in Progress guys all think it was PI (except Fred, of course), but I still can't see it.

Unfortunately the NFL and some officials think the offensive player has a right to run unimpeded to the ball and if the defender arrives at the same time or sooner to make a play on the ball contact is his fault in every case. It almost seems as if they see contact grab a flag and figure it must be D.


Great as normal Ken!!!

 

[jsull87]

Do you really think the patrtiots will pay Mankins between $10M and $11m ofr one year's service? And do you really think that the patriots would take that much cap money out of the early free agency market?

10-11m? Maybe i am mistaken then. I thought the franchise number for a guard was closer to 8-9million

 

[patfanken]

You can always count on Matt Light playing well every time this boars starts ripping hm. Contrary to popular belief his perfromance against top pass rushers has been excellent. I did the numbers last year, and maybe I can find them for the Freeney example, which IIRC was soemthing like Freeney having 2 sacks in his last 7 games vs Light.

I find it amusing how a LT can stop a great pass rusher 38 out of 40 times and get killed by media and fans for the 2 times he loses the battle.

Light is still a top 10-15 LT and a reliable asset. His key asset is that you know what you are going to get, so you can be prepared in those rare occasions that he's the mismatch. I think he's smart enough to know how this organization works, and he likes it here, so I'm sure his contract demands will be reasonable. I think he'll get another contract UNLESS, someone else makes him an offer he can't refuse, or he wants too man years.

Warren missing 2010 could be a blessing in disguise because he will be 100% for the first time in a while, and we have gotten experience for the youngsters. I REALLY like what I have seen from Brace. I think he will develop into a Ty Warren type of player. With Deadreick and Wright also here, not to mention Pryor, and the youth and upside a high pick isnt necessary, but if the right player is there, BB will take him.

Ditto, the more I think on it, the better I feel about our DL next year. We will not only get Warren back, but a very good and healthy Warren. His immediate impact will be bigger than ANY potential draft pick.

Since you mentioned it, a chance for a side rant. Why is it that when athletes who are bad people do well on the playing feel the media talks of their great story of redemption? I heard it all day with Vick. His redemption isnt how he plays football, its not because an awful human. Playing well has nothing to do with that. Sorry, way OT

While I agree completely on Ben, Vick is another story for me. I see him as a guy who did horrible things, but he paid the price for his actions and repented. He not only cleaned up his act on the field but off it as well. I can forgive a guy like that. Plus who would have thought that after 2 years away from the game he could come back and within a year and a half elevate his game from being just a very exciting but not very effective QB, into simply a very effective QB...who is exciting to watch.

On a side note. Vick's improvement is just another feather in the cap of Andy Reid. Either this kid didn't get good coaching in Atlanta, or perhaps the old Mike Vick wouldn't take coaching until he had his epiphany courtesy of the federal gov't. Just another reason to root for him.

As to Ben. This guy was a complete ********* in college...and didn't change his ways until this last dust up. The fact he wasn't indicted doesn't forgive his well documented actions. Frankly a few months of a well choreographed PR job, doesn't make up for several years of bad/criminal behavior. I can admire his athletic ability, but he will need to show me a lot more before the stench of his GA escapade washes off.

I look at this from the other side. We may have never been good enough to overcome sloppy play but part of why we were so good is that we were never sloppy. Especially in the Championship years. It may be that from 05-09 we became better at overcomng sloppiness, yet became much more sloppy.

This is a great insight. Back in the Championship years, we were the little engine that could. The team that could aways overcome, but had very little margin of error. Now we are back to being "that" team....and that's a good thing.

Unfortunately the NFL and some officials think the offensive player has a right to run unimpeded to the ball and if the defender arrives at the same time or sooner to make a play on the ball contact is his fault in every case. It almost seems as if they see contact grab a flag and figure it must be D.

Its kind of sad commentary that when we play the Colts that I factor in at least 2 very questionable PI/contact calls per game. With most teams I don't feel this way, but when we play the Colts and Steelers, its seems like a fairly called game is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Ring 6]

I find it amusing how a LT can stop a great pass rusher 38 out of 40 times and get killed by media and fans for the 2 times he loses the battle.

Light is still a top 10-15 LT and a reliable asset. His key asset is that you know what you are going to get, so you can be prepared in those rare occasions that he's the mismatch. I think he's smart enough to know how this organization works, and he likes it here, so I'm sure his contract demands will be reasonable. I think he'll get another contract UNLESS, someone else makes him an offer he can't refuse, or he wants too man years.



Ditto, the more I think on it, the better I feel about our DL next year. We will not only get Warren back, but a very good and healthy Warren. His immediate impact will be bigger than ANY potential draft pick.



While I agree completely on Ben, Vick is another story for me. I see him as a guy who did horrible things, but he paid the price for his actions and repented. He not only cleaned up his act on the field but off it as well. I can forgive a guy like that. Plus who would have thought that after 2 years away from the game he could come back and within a year and a half elevate his game from being just a very exciting but not very effective QB, into simply a very effective QB...who is exciting to watch.

On a side note. Vick's improvement is just another feather in the cap of Andy Reid. Either this kid didn't get good coaching in Atlanta, or perhaps the old Mike Vick wouldn't take coaching until he had his epiphany courtesy of the federal gov't. Just another reason to root for him.

As to Ben. This guy was a complete ********* in college...and didn't change his ways until this last dust up. The fact he wasn't indicted doesn't forgive his well documented actions. Frankly a few months of a well choreographed PR job, doesn't make up for several years of bad/criminal behavior. I can admire his athletic ability, but he will need to show me a lot more before the stench of his GA escapade washes off.



This is a great insight. Back in the Championship years, we were the little engine that could. The team that could aways overcome, but had very little margin of error. Now we are back to being "that" team....and that's a good thing.



Its kind of sad commentary that when we play the Colts that I factor in at least 2 very questionable PI/contact calls per game. With most teams I don't feel this way, but when we play the Colts and Steelers, its seems like a fairly called game is the exception rather than the rule.

My point about Vick is that if he has redeemed himself as a human, fine, but the proof that he redeemed himself isnt how he plays football.
Someone in the media today said that Vick proved last night that his redemeption is one of the greatest of all time.
He isnt redeeming himself from being an inconsistent overrated QB, he is redeeming himself from being an inhuman scum. He either did or didnt but last nights game has nothing to do with it. I have no clue if he really changed.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Light might last another year or two, but Koppen is close to the end. We need to find our next center soon, or we could find ourselves struggling with the position all season. You know BB would rather give up a guy a year early than a year too late. I'd be very surprised if we didn't get another center this off-season.

 

[aluminum seats]

--On the Raiders' pick, in recent years the ideal spot has been in the middle of the 1st round. I understand there may be a rookie cap that would make a higher pick more desireable, but is that a done deal? If it doesn't happen, we may be happier that the Raiders are winning some games.

--Reasonable to be wary of Detroit, because of the schedule. We forget this because the Lions have been so horrible in recent years, but playing at home on Thanksgiving is an enormous advantage for them. The Pats play a much hyped late game on Sunday, and by Wednesday are flying to Michigan. I think they'll still win, but it's reasonable to be nervous about it.

--Re the picks, I'm not a draftnik, but agree w/being cautious about picking RBs high up. I'd almost always rather see 'em pick linemen on both sides of the ball.

 

[IllegalContact]

....Just some comments on some stuff I haven't read or heard much about. Pardon any redundancy.

1.Matt Light was supposed to be facing a player who usually causes him fits. (James Harrison) The small, quick, low to the grown edge rusher....and he stoned him. How'd they do it. First, because the crowd was so quiet, Light was able to get off on the snap quickly. Second, he worked very hard to bend his knees and maintain leverage on the shorter guy. Third, the Pats reduced the number of times Light got the match up by formation. In other words they directed the formation to force Harrison into pass coverage OR if he came, to throw quickly to open receiver in the vacated flat area. Regardless of how, Harrison was a non-factor all evening.

BTW- what did you see last night that would make you want to get rid of Matt Light next year....if his contract demands are reasonable (ie top 15 LT money on a 3 year deal). Another thought would be to Franchise him for a year. Yeah, you'd overpay him that year, but you wouldn't have the risk of a long term contract on an older player with diminishing skills. Good for both sides.

I believe Crumpler was a factor. He was involved with helping out enough where after awhile, it seemed as though harrison didn't bother anymore.

I think Light has a few more good year left in him. and I'm as not sure as I was last year that Vollmer will be a better long-term solution there.

2. When was the last time you heard the name Sebastian Volmer talked about....and that's a good thing. Clearly we have solved any RT issues along the OL. This kid is going to b special as he develops.

I thought Vollmer was better last year. He has missed his fair share of assignments this year although everyone had a good game against the steelers. he has the tools, just not sure that he's an ideal RT

3. Still staying on the OL, Dan Koppen is very quietly having a very good year. He's still a very solid and competent C, but not an impact one. I don't know the players but an impact C could very well be there at the end of the 1st or the top of the 2nd. So while the Dan Koppen era isn't over, the end isn't far off.

Koppen can still keep doing what he's doing for a few more years. consider that the OG positions have been changing week to week, he has handled that quite well. the OL is coming together at just the right time.

I would use that high pick on replacing neal next year.

4.While, sadly, the Oakland pick keeps dropping, the Carolina pick is rising fast, and SHOULD be 33-35 at worst. Lots of good players to be found there. So unless something drastic happens the Pats will have THREE picks in the player pool of guys with low first round grades. Maybe not as good as we hoped, but it sure doesn't suck.

5. I was almost certain that when we drafted next April, the first pick off our board would be the best 3-4 DE candidate available. Now I'm not so sure. Right now the Pats are using so many different DL groupings it hard on TV to keep track of who exactly is in there, But it looks like Deadrick and Brace have passed Gerard Warren, or are at least interchangeable with him. As Deadrick and Brace are seemingly on the upswing, Wilfolk just entering his prime, and Wright, Pryor, and Warren as effective depth. Maybe taking a DE that high might NOT be the best use of that asset. Wouldn't Ty Warren who is likely to come back better since he'll be truly healthy for the first time a few years, be LIKE that impact draft pick, only without the learning curve.

I still think a higher pick on a DE would be wise. neither brace nor deaderick are very mobile even for 3-4 DE. I think a Jarvis Green type for passing downs. A guy like Christian Ballard of Iowa would be a perfect compliment to who is already here.

6. Still picking a RB in that slot (whatever it is) doesn't look like a great idea either. There are just too many examples of effective running backs being had in the lower rounds. BJGE is a perfect example right here, but so are Peyton Hillis, and the kid in TB, Blunt (IIRC), and many many others. We definitely NEED an infusion of young RBs, but is it worth a #1?

the pats just need to get younger. I think faulk is done, but we are set with woodhead for a few years. I think Taylor is done after this year, so either a decent vet, or an RB/FB hybrid type to replace him via the draft. maybe take a shot on someone like daniel thomas if he can be had in the 3rd round

7. Watching the impact of L Jackson, the Eagle WR, you can see what BB was going for when he took a shot at Bethel Johnson and Chad Jackson. Exceptional speed can really open up the field for an offense....if it can function within the offensive system of the team the speed is on. Jackson and Johnson clearly couldn't make the transition to a compete WR, but the CONCEPT was a correct one. I wouldn't be surprised to see BB take another shot this year in the first 3 rounds for a WR with "special speed" and hope he develops into a complete WR. You can't coach speed, and its damned hard to defend it. BB knows this.

I think the pats need to find a vet for their field-stretcher.......I don't think the pickings are all that great coming out of college tis year.

8. I cannot do one of these threads without gushing some more about Devin McCourty, He is just now starting to attract some national attention, but the play that confirmed his potential greatness was his tackle in the open field. It wasn't that he dragged the RB down, which would have been super; he stoned him. Dropped him in his tracks....short of the first down. It was just special

agreed, but darius butler has been a disappointment. I would not be suprised to see a CB taken in round 1.

9. Could it be that the change in the defense between Cleveland and Pittsburgh is as simple as the inclusion of Pat Chung. I couldn't help notice the speed comparison between him and Paloumalu. His he capable of being OUR Bob Sanders (hopefully without the injuries)?

The word I think watching him play is "sudden". For example on that KO where it looked like the returner had a lane and was about to break into the open, Chung comes out of NO WHERE and stops him dead in his tracks. One second it looked very dangerous, and the next the play was over. BANG.

I can't help but think how our secondary will look when Bodden comes back. I could be that our current "pro bowl" Safety might be the 4th best player on the back line....and lots of more experienced depth for all the various sub D's. A VERY exciting prospect

I agree about chung, but there was more to it than that against cleveland.....the entire team simply didn't show up

10. Rothlessberger might be a horrible person and an un-indicted sex offender, but you have to admire how tough it is to bring that guy down. Guys were getting one hand on him and couldn't even turn his shoulders, let alone bring him down. One play in particular was funny (now that the game is over). TBC bounces off him and has him by the ankle when he throws a completion to a back underneath. The play ends with Rothlessberger still standing.

+1

 

[patfanken]

My point about Vick is that if he has redeemed himself as a human, fine, but the proof that he redeemed himself isnt how he plays football.
Someone in the media today said that Vick proved last night that his redemeption is one of the greatest of all time.
He isnt redeeming himself from being an inconsistent overrated QB, he is redeeming himself from being an inhuman scum. He either did or didnt but last nights game has nothing to do with it. I have no clue if he really changed.

Clearly the most important thing is he has redeemed (to this point anyhow) himself as a human being. But players don't control the hyperbolic media. His "redemption" is not one of the greatest of all times. lol But the improvement in his game HAS to be attributed to the coaching he's getting.

Lets see if he can keep it up. The one thing we will know for certain is that the Eagles will be the media's flavor of the week

 

[patfanken]

I believe Crumpler was a factor. He was involved with helping out enough where after awhile, it seemed as though harrison didn't bother anymore.

That can be true, but I saw a number of replays that showed Light taking on Harrison one on one and winning (except for that hold )

I think Light has a few more good year left in him. and I'm as not sure as I was last year that Vollmer will be a better long-term solution there. I thought Vollmer was better last year. He has missed his fair share of assignments this year although everyone had a good game against the steelers. he has the tools, just not sure that he's an ideal RT

I find this comment interesting. You are the 2nd person I've heard who has had some issues with Volmer. Andy Hart alluded to it recently on PFW in progress. So tell me what I'm missing (and I'm not watching him closely). Isn't he progressing into the impact OT that he started to see last season. Are we all just taking for granted his upward development?

I would use that high pick on replacing neal next year.

I agree the offense line retooling has to begin next season, even thought Neal is signed through 2011, IIRC

I still think a higher pick on a DE would be wise. neither brace nor deaderick are very mobile even for 3-4 DE. I think a Jarvis Green type for passing downs. A guy like Christian Ballard of Iowa would be a perfect compliment to who is already here.

You are right both are more run stuffers. Given that you can offer a name, I'll consider you a "draft geek" and ask you (or any of the many "draft geeks" who reside here for the rest of the board's benefit) for more info on this Iowa kid you mentioned, because like most of the board's population, I've never heard of him.

the pats just need to get younger. I think faulk is done, but we are set with woodhead for a few years. I think Taylor is done after this year, so either a decent vet, or an RB/FB hybrid type to replace him via the draft. maybe take a shot on someone like daniel thomas if he can be had in the 3rd round

Common wisdom would seem to dictate that Faulk is done, but i could be tricky if he doesn't think so. Before he got injured he hadn't shown any serious decline in his play. Reports of his demise MIGHT be premature. But the tricky part is how well Woodhead has replaced him.

AND could you tell us more about Daniel Thomas

I think the pats need to find a vet for their field-stretcher.......I don't think the pickings are all that great coming out of college tis year.

OK, who is available that might stretch the field among the potential FA's

agreed, but darius butler has been a disappointment. I would not be suprised to see a CB taken in round 1.

Butler's fall from grace is both disturbing and curious. Clearly from his play last season, he has the physical ability to be a very good nickel back in this league. And the way the league is, nickel back is a key virtual starting position. I don't know what happened to cause this fall in the depth chart. You may be right about seeing another CB drafted with one of the top 6 picks if BB doesn't see the possibility of a bounce back year from him

I agree about chung, but there was more to it than that against cleveland.....the entire team simply didn't show up

Of course you are right, but we have seen with Bob Sanders and Troy Polaumalu that Safeties can have a big impact on the game. Chung looks like he can provide a similar impact, though it is a little early yet to make such a bold statement, the potential is there. The kid plays very fast and very "sudden"

Thanks for the insightful reply, IC

 

[IllegalContact]

That can be true, but I saw a number of replays that showed Light taking on Harrison one on one and winning (except for that hold )

didn't really catch the plays that crumpler was not involved, but I saw a good number of them where he was. since he never really got close at all, you're probably right

I find this comment interesting. You are the 2nd person I've heard who has had some issues with Volmer. Andy Hart alluded to it recently on PFW in progress. So tell me what I'm missing (and I'm not watching him closely). Isn't he progressing into the impact OT that he started to see last season. Are we all just taking for granted his upward development?

I'm not down on him, he just looked better at LT last year. maybe part of it was the expectation that was set by last year. he's not killing us by any stretch of he imagination. he's still good

You are right both are more run stuffers. Given that you can offer a name, I'll consider you a "draft geek" and ask you (or any of the many "draft geeks" who reside here for the rest of the board's benefit) for more info on this Iowa kid you mentioned, because like most of the board's population, I've never heard of him.

Ballard has ty warren size (6'5"/300) and jarvis green speed(4.85). he holds up well against the run, and

Common wisdom would seem to dictate that Faulk is done, but i could be tricky if he doesn't think so. Before he got injured he hadn't shown any serious decline in his play. Reports of his demise MIGHT be premature. But the tricky part is how well Woodhead has replaced him.

AND could you tell us more about Daniel Thomas

he's pretty big (230), can pound the ball, and is a pretty good reciever ..... he's not all that special, just a solid player who runs hard.

OK, who is available that might stretch the field among the potential FA's

I don't know......not looking for the 10M/yr best in the league type. that has never won anything here.

one guy who is intriguing in college is torrey smith from maryland.....just broke brandon tate's ACC career return yardage record, and puts up decent numbers.....and he used to be a QB

Of course you are right, but we have seen with Bob Sanders and Troy Polaumalu that Safeties can have a big impact on the game. Chung looks like he can provide a similar impact, though it is a little early yet to make such a bold statement, the potential is there. The kid plays very fast and very "sudden"

Thanks for the insightful reply, IC

no doubt......chung seems to have 'it'......

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Ballard has ty warren size (6'5"/300) and jarvis green speed(4.85). he holds up well against the run

And he has trouble locating the ball in trash and benefits from his linemates drawing double-teams because opposing offenses worry more about them then they do him.