NFLN Top 100 players :10 to 1

[Kontradiction]

Manning being in the top ten of all time at this point is absolutely ridiculous. Other than that, I don't really have a problem with the Top 10. The rest of the list, however, is another story.

 

[N.Eman]

So...Manning is 8 because of regular season records..oh no, wait, Brady has the best season in history.
Well, must be rings - oh wait.
Must have been the lack of talent around him...oh, wait.
Must be his performance in the clutch...oh wait, can't be that.
Must be...?

MVPs? Seriously, he won more popularity contests than anyone in history and that puts him #8 to Brady's 21? WTF?

"Popularity" is the key word there. manning is there cause he makes the NFL a ton of money. IF its either winning or loosing. Like coach said, Final score is for winners, stats is for looser *i think it was coach BB who said that**

 

[jmt57]

If you haven't seen Rice take over a game do yourself a favor and watch the Super Bowl against the Bengals. Rice is the only player that played good in that game and while Montana gets all the pub for the game winning drive it was Rice who caught 5 catches on the drive and caused the double team that got Taylor open and he won MVP of that game. And the thing against Brown is he was ordinary against good competition and pedestrian in the 3 NFL championships (which would be the equivalent to the Super Bowl) while Rice always played big in his 4 Super Bowls. If you ignore Brown's playing a very weak division 11 games out of the 12 a year and Jim Taylor putting better numbers against the much much tougher Western division and then laying a goose egg in the big games (other than a 75-yard run when his team was already up 23-0 in the 4th). Let me ask you fellow Patriot fans would you take Manning over Brady simply based on regular season play and ignore his postseason play or Super Bowl play?

p.s edit: Rice played 20 years and doubled every thing that Brown did and no I don't give him credit for what he could have done since he didn't actually do it he retired to make ****ty movies.

Of course I've seen Rice play; you think I've seen Brown, but not Rice??? As I said before, nothing against Rice. Not sure where I would rank him, but it would be very high; good chance it would be #2.

The list was about the greatest of all time, not the greatest playoff performers of all time. If that was the criteria then we better remove John Hannah, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders from the list completely because they so seldom were in the playoffs. Once again, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying playoffs are not important in this discussion - they are a very important factor - but you're going to base everything on a couple of games? Keep in mind that football is the ultimate team game. Switch Brown and Rice and those Cleveland teams don't suddenly win four championships. In fact, add Rice and put him there with Brown and they still probably only have one championship.

Regarding the weaker division, that was true only at the very end of Brown's career, for one or maybe two seasons. The majority of his career they had to compete in the Eastern Conference when the Giants were a great team and the Eagles were very good. For most of Brown's career the only good team in the Western Conference was the Packers.

Jim Taylor did indeed have better numbers - once. Not sure how you characterize the West being so superior that year as they included the league's two worst teams that season, the one-win Rams and two-win Vikings. Probably not a coincidence it was also Cleveland's worst season while Brown was a member of the team.

I never asked to give Brown credit for what he 'could have done', but when you compare two players who played a different number of years and different amount of games then stats like total career yardage are meaningless. Give credit to Rice for his longevity and conditioning - absolutely. But remember to consider that difference in games when comparing two players by their career stats.

For example if a player runs for 65 yards a game would you say he is great? Probably not, but he does that for 16 games and he's a 1000-yard rusher. Now if he does that for 15 years he has more career rushing yards than Barry Sanders and is third all-time in rushing yardage. That doesn't make him the third best running back of all time though.

Brown led the league in rushing every year he played but one. His career rushing record stood for about thirty years despite others playing in far many more games than he did. Nobody else who played previously was remotely close to his numbers. And like Rice - but even more so in my opinion - he could singlehandedly take over a game. Both players had great coaches, but Rice had a far superior team with the 49ers than Brown did with Cleveland. But mostly, Brown was so much better than his contemporaries than Rice was to his contemporaries, that to me is a vital difference.

Rice was great, no doubt about it. However, Jim Brown was without a doubt the greatest player in NFL history in my opinion.

 

[condon84]

These lists are entertaining but really is flawed. How can you rank Marino or Barry Sanders that low? Because football is the ultimate TEAM game, at some point, you have to set aside the "how many championships has he won" argument when comparing great players. Manning is essentially what Marino was when he played. The guy was as dominant as there ever was. If Marino played with Bill Walsh and those 49er teams, there's no question he would have multiple rings. Same with Barry if he played with the Emmitt Smith Cowboys. If Barry had 3 SB rings people would look at him as the GOAT. Same with Marino if he had won multiple rings.

 

[coltsfan09]

what is everyone complaining about? Tom Brady won those 3 super bowls with the help of the defense.

Peyton every year has to make up in points for the mistakes the defense make or because more than half the team is injured...

We were missing our key players on defense against new orleans and mostly rookies at cornerbacks. Peyton and Addai did their jobs but the rest of the team didnt.

I mean he cant do it all the time. Brady just has to snap the ball and chill in his pocket to throw when he feels like it. Hec, he can even have a barbecue and invite all his friends over while his offensive line protects him...

Plus we were the most respectful team to the Patriots when you guys tried to go perfect 19-0 while the rest of the NFL and their fans made fun of you!

And you guys made fun of us after our super bowl loss last year...

 

[coltsfan09]

I love how the moment Dallas Clark is out for the season, everybody in the media starts gushing about how he is so great for winning games with nooooooo offensive talent, but wait he still has Reggie Wayne and Pierre G. Who the hell played with Brady up until 07, NO ONE! I could careless about the ranking, just the superbowls

havent you ever considered the fact that maybe the Colts recruit, draft, and train their wide receivers to be really good? All of our receivers were drafted and crafted to play in that great offense.

Why dont the Patriots try that? But no, you guys go into free agency for that. We dont! Most of our team has been drafted, most of your team is from free agency except for brady, he was your only successful one...

 

[wpdougie2180]

Of course I've seen Rice play; you think I've seen Brown, but not Rice??? As I said before, nothing against Rice. Not sure where I would rank him, but it would be very high; good chance it would be #2.

The list was about the greatest of all time, not the greatest playoff performers of all time. If that was the criteria then we better remove John Hannah, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders from the list completely because they so seldom were in the playoffs. Once again, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying playoffs are not important in this discussion - they are a very important factor - but you're going to base everything on a couple of games? Keep in mind that football is the ultimate team game. Switch Brown and Rice and those Cleveland teams don't suddenly win four championships. In fact, add Rice and put him there with Brown and they still probably only have one championship.

Regarding the weaker division, that was true only at the very end of Brown's career, for one or maybe two seasons. The majority of his career they had to compete in the Eastern Conference when the Giants were a great team and the Eagles were very good. For most of Brown's career the only good team in the Western Conference was the Packers.

Jim Taylor did indeed have better numbers - once. Not sure how you characterize the West being so superior that year as they included the league's two worst teams that season, the one-win Rams and two-win Vikings. Probably not a coincidence it was also Cleveland's worst season while Brown was a member of the team.

I never asked to give Brown credit for what he 'could have done', but when you compare two players who played a different number of years and different amount of games then stats like total career yardage are meaningless. Give credit to Rice for his longevity and conditioning - absolutely. But remember to consider that difference in games when comparing two players by their career stats.

For example if a player runs for 65 yards a game would you say he is great? Probably not, but he does that for 16 games and he's a 1000-yard rusher. Now if he does that for 15 years he has more career rushing yards than Barry Sanders and is third all-time in rushing yardage. That doesn't make him the third best running back of all time though.

Brown led the league in rushing every year he played but one. His career rushing record stood for about thirty years despite others playing in far many more games than he did. Nobody else who played previously was remotely close to his numbers. And like Rice - but even more so in my opinion - he could singlehandedly take over a game. Both players had great coaches, but Rice had a far superior team with the 49ers than Brown did with Cleveland. But mostly, Brown was so much better than his contemporaries than Rice was to his contemporaries, that to me is a vital difference.

Rice was great, no doubt about it. However, Jim Brown was without a doubt the greatest player in NFL history in my opinion.

First off with the bolded statements that means you would take Manning over Brady right? Since your clearly stating the playoffs don't hold any more significant meaning than regular season games.

Secondly Rice didn't have a superior team than Brown given the fact that Brown played with the best o-line in football at the time and 6-7 all-pros at any given moment of his career. It's a reason every single time you see Brown the holes are big enough to drive a truck through(not taking anything away from brown but if it can be used against Rice it can be used against Brown also).

And Finally I wasn't simply talking about the one season with Brown and Taylor but over their careers, take a look at this link:

Taylor, Brown, and Simpson (the Paradox, not the Juice) Pro-football-reference.com blog Blog Archive

Which clearly illustrates what I was saying earlier about the clearly inferior Eastern division and Taylor out playing him against the better Western division.

Also most people don't do what you mention about the yardage think because you never hear anyone say Emmitt Smith is the best running back do you just because he has the most yardage? And regarding Rice you can take away all the extra years and no one in football history did or has done what he did in his first 11 years in their entire careers regardless of the length of years they played.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

what is everyone complaining about? Tom Brady won those 3 super bowls with the help of the defense.

Peyton every year has to make up in points for the mistakes the defense make or because more than half the team is injured...

We were missing our key players on defense against new orleans and mostly rookies at cornerbacks. Peyton and Addai did their jobs but the rest of the team didnt.

I mean he cant do it all the time. Brady just has to snap the ball and chill in his pocket to throw when he feels like it. Hec, he can even have a barbecue and invite all his friends over while his offensive line protects him...

Plus we were the most respectful team to the Patriots when you guys tried to go perfect 19-0 while the rest of the NFL and their fans made fun of you!

And you guys made fun of us after our super bowl loss last year...

 

[BSR]

havent you ever considered the fact that maybe the Colts recruit, draft, and train their wide receivers to be really good? All of our receivers were drafted and crafted to play in that great offense.

Why dont the Patriots try that? But no, you guys go into free agency for that. We dont! Most of our team has been drafted, most of your team is from free agency except for brady, he was your only successful one...

This wasn't meant to be serious was it?

 

[D-Money]

Manning was in the top 10 based on stats.I have no problem with him being in the top 10.I know i rather have Brady then him in a big game situation.

 

[BSR]

Manning was in the top 10 based on stats.I have no problem with him being in the top 10.I know i rather have Brady then him in a big game situation.

I agree but at the same time, shouldn't Manning and Marino be much closer together then?

 

[Jetssuck]

what is everyone complaining about? Tom Brady won those 3 super bowls with the help of the defense. ...

Why did Peyton Manning not win the superbowl all the years that he had a defense as good as Brady's? 2002, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009.

Manning's playoff record with top 10 defense: 5 seasons, 2-5, 1 superbowl appearance -- a loss

Brady's playoff record with top 10 defense: 6 seasons, 13-3, 4 superbowl appearances -- 3 superbowl wins

Manning's playoff record with top 2 defense: 2 seasons, 0-2

Brady's playoff record with top 2 defense: 3 seasons, 8-1, 2 superbowl wins

Manning has won fewer superbowls because he's not a good QB in the playoffs. Some would call him a choke artist.

Peyton every year has to make up in points for the mistakes the defense make or because more than half the team is injured...

Lie. See above.

We were missing our key players on defense against new orleans and mostly rookies at cornerbacks. Peyton and Addai did their jobs but the rest of the team didnt.

The Patriots were missing even more key players in the 2006 AFC Championship against the Colts. If the Patriots hadn't suffered all those injuries in that game, Manning would have 0 superbowl rings now

I mean he cant do it all the time. Brady just has to snap the ball and chill in his pocket to throw when he feels like it. Hec, he can even have a barbecue and invite all his friends over while his offensive line protects him......

That's laughable. The Colts have the best oline in football. Manning has been sacked a league low 7 times this year. Brady has been sacked 12 times.

 

[Mainefan]

One thing I like about this list is that there'll be another list along in a few weeks or so. There will always be more lists. The arguments will never be settled. But when there's nothing else to talk about, this is a convenient subject.

By the way, no one was better than Jim Brown. We forget--he retired at the age of 29. He was the fastest, strongest, smartest man on the field in every game in which he played.

Remember the quarterbacks he played under? Otto Graham was gone, so Brown played with Milt Plum, Tommy O'Connell and Frank Ryan. Who?

But Cleveland nevertheless won championship after championship--on Brown's back.

 

[letekro]

If Brady wins a 4th SB he will vault to Joe Montana land and all this will be moot.

 

[strngplyr]

Why are you guys so worked up over some writers opinions? Who gives a ****. The New England Patriots with Tom Brady leading them have one 3 superbowls and appeared in 4. The Colts have won one superbowl and lost a bunch of AFCCG games.

Manning is more popular because the colts average 1-2 more wins in the regular season every year and he puts up stupid numbers. Then loses an AFCCG. Who cares. Manning isn't clutch, and probably never will be.

Stop caring about what other people think and just realise how great we have it with Tom Brady leading us through the post season.

 

[D-Money]

What number was Bruce Smith?I dont know why he wasnt in the top 20.

 

[wpdougie2180]

One thing I like about this list is that there'll be another list along in a few weeks or so. There will always be more lists. The arguments will never be settled. But when there's nothing else to talk about, this is a convenient subject.

By the way, no one was better than Jim Brown. We forget--he retired at the age of 29. He was the fastest, strongest, smartest man on the field in every game in which he played.

Remember the quarterbacks he played under? Otto Graham was gone, so Brown played with Milt Plum, Tommy O'Connell and Frank Ryan. Who?

But Cleveland nevertheless won championship after championship--on Brown's back.

They only won 1 championship and secondly your acting like those QBs were scrubs when in fact they made the Pro Bowl (when that meant something) 6 out of the 9 years he played like I said earlier the Browns were probably the most talented team in the league except for maybe Green Bay.

 

[apple strudel]

Stop caring about what other people think and just realise how great we have it with Tom Brady leading us through the post season.

I don't feel confident in what I know unless hordes of brainless sportswriters reiterate it to me.

 

[Kontradiction]

what is everyone complaining about? Tom Brady won those 3 super bowls with the help of the defense.

Peyton every year has to make up in points for the mistakes the defense make or because more than half the team is injured...

We were missing our key players on defense against new orleans and mostly rookies at cornerbacks. Peyton and Addai did their jobs but the rest of the team didnt.

I mean he cant do it all the time. Brady just has to snap the ball and chill in his pocket to throw when he feels like it. Hec, he can even have a barbecue and invite all his friends over while his offensive line protects him...

Plus we were the most respectful team to the Patriots when you guys tried to go perfect 19-0 while the rest of the NFL and their fans made fun of you!

And you guys made fun of us after our super bowl loss last year...

For one, the defense's role in winning two of those Super Bowls has been vastly overrated by most. In Super Bowl XXXVIII, the defense allowed 414 yards of total offense and 29 points. In Super Bowl XXXIX, the defense allowed 402 yards of total offense, but surrendered just 21 points. McNabb's three picks certainly helped that. Did they do a good enough job to help the team win the big game? Certainly. But Brady still had to move the ball in both of those match-ups (354 yards and 3 TD's in Super Bowl XXXVIII) and had to drive the team down for a game-winning field goal in crunch time in one of those contests.

For another, there is no question that Peyton is an all time great quarterback. But he's not top ten all time great. There are a few on that list that had bigger impacts on the game during their times that should have gotten that honor. Manning, realistically, should have been ranked somewhere in the 20's right now. That would, of course, change if he wins any more Super Bowls. But, as of right now, he has one Super Bowl win while throwing a game-sinking pick six in his second Super Bowl.

For a third, the Colts weren't the most respectful team at all when we were trying to go 19-0. Not even close. That statement is so far off that it actually makes me wonder when, exactly, you became a Colts fan. Colts fans were probably the second most venomous team toward Patriots fans in 2007, coming in behind only Jets fans. Third place would be Chargers fans.

 

[jmt57]

First off with the bolded statements that means you would take Manning over Brady right? Since your clearly stating the playoffs don't hold any more significant meaning than regular season games.

Care to go back and read the sentence I wrote following the first sentence of mine you bolded? Nice try putting words in my mouth.

Secondly Rice didn't have a superior team than Brown given the fact that Brown played with the best o-line in football at the time and 6-7 all-pros at any given moment of his career. It's a reason every single time you see Brown the holes are big enough to drive a truck through(not taking anything away from brown but if it can be used against Rice it can be used against Brown also).

Who makes the Pro Bowl and is an all-pro has long been a joke. I wouldn't use that for criteria on how good the offensive line was. I'd venture to guess that some of those other pro bowlers received that honor more for being on the same team as much as anything else. As for the big holes you see, that's because they're highlight reels. A five or six yard run doesn't make those highlights. However, if you watched him play, you would recognize he was vastly superior to most others he played against - very similar to the way Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky were during their NHL careers.

And Finally I wasn't simply talking about the one season with Brown and Taylor but over their careers, take a look at this link:

Taylor, Brown, and Simpson (the Paradox, not the Juice) Pro-football-reference.com blog Blog Archive

Which clearly illustrates what I was saying earlier about the clearly inferior Eastern division and Taylor out playing him against the better Western division.

As I mentioned before the West caught up to and passed the East at the end of Brown's career. You characterize it as being that way for all of Brown's career. However the analysis you cite is flawed for two reasons. First, it uses 1960 as it's starting point; as a result it ignores the first third of Brown's career - a portion which not so coincidentally the East was far superior to the West. Second, the sample size is too small; you're looking at just 11 games out of Brown's 122-game career.

Also most people don't do what you mention about the yardage think because you never hear anyone say Emmitt Smith is the best running back do you just because he has the most yardage? And regarding Rice you can take away all the extra years and no one in football history did or has done what he did in his first 11 years in their entire careers regardless of the length of years they played.

Actually a fair number of people do consider Emmitt Smith the best running back ever, unfortunately. And once again, I don't want to take away the fact that Rice was able to play for so long. He absolutely does deserve recognition for being able to play for so long. Point is you shouldn't limit comparisons to total career numbers. That's why I made that admittedly absurd example - to point out that limiting your focus to primarily looking at only career number is faulty logic.


Rice is great. But I'll stand by my opinion that Jim Brown was the greatest - despite Rice having more success in the post-season.