The worst part of all this is Brady's age

[BradyFTW!]

IF Brady has 5 good years left then it is not an issue. If all goes to plan this team should be ready in 1-2 years to contend. In the 5 year theory that leaves a solid 3-4 year window for this team to have its way.

With Moss and Seymour you would have shortened that window and less picks to work with. And It's hard to see this team as champs in either of the last 2 seasons, even with both of them around.

Why couldn't the Pats have won last year? They went 10-6, and would have been 11-5 if they'd had a reason to care in Week 17. They lost to the Ravens largely because the Ravens could run the ball at will on them by running directly at wherever Wilfork wasn't. It's obviously not a guarantee that they would win the SB, and the chances aren't particularly good for anyone, but I find it strange that people can look at a team that won its division and went into the playoffs as a #3 seed and say it couldn't have won a SB if you'd put a HOF-caliber player in at one of the biggest weak points on its roster.

Seriously, if the 2001 team was good enough to win it, then you can't convince me that the 2009 team and 2010 team didn't have a shot. Hell, they still have a shot, but it just got a whole lot smaller. If you guys think the Pats should only try to field the best team possible in years where it's a slam dunk that they'll be in the SB, then you're going to wait a long time for something that'll never happen. Nothing's ever a sure thing, just look at 2007. As long as you have a QB like Brady, you always have a chance, and IMO it's irresponsible not to make the most of this chance. They did it in 2009 and now they're doing it again in 2010. Some would even say that they did it in 2006, although I agreed with that one since Branch wasn't even close to as good as Moss/Seymour, and he was going to hold out whereas the other guys were willing to play.

Obviously this should all be taken with an enormous grain of salt, since Belichick does this for a living and I'm just another drunk, kinda angry fan, but acting like Belichick is infallible and couldn't possibly have made a mistake because the Pats won 3 SBs 5+ years ago isn't constructive either. There have been some significant mistakes made since then, and I think that this'll turn out to be one of them.

 

[JMarr]

With how young this defense is, there's a good chance that the Pats have a damn good defense not only toward the end of Brady's career (giving him a few final chances to win a Super Bowl), but also at the beginning of the next era at QB.

There is not a doubt in my mind that Belichick feels that the chances of NE winning another SB are just as good with Hoyer as with Brady. He is in complete re-build mode. The so-called "Brady Window" doesn't even register, or is ignored. Thanks Bill, maybe in another 3 or 4 years this team will be solid on all fronts because of all the draft picks you're hoarding.....right about when Hoyer replaces an aging and less effective Brady ala Bledsoe.

 

[JackBauer]

There is not a doubt in my mind that Belichick feels that the chances of NE winning another SB are just as good with Hoyer as with Brady. He is in complete re-build mode. The so-called "Brady Window" doesn't even register, or is ignored. Thanks Bill, maybe in another 3 or 4 years this team will be solid on all fronts because of all the draft picks you're hoarding.....right about when Hoyer replaces an aging and less effective Brady ala Bledsoe.

That's absurd. This team will be firing on all cylinders by next season.

 

[patsfan13]

What has happened the past 2 years in the draft will be the best thing that could happen for Brady's career. We have the youngest defense in the league, they are making mistakes right now, BUT they are improving each week. By the end of the year they will be a good defense IMO. Next year they could be an elite defense.


They have made a decision to go to more of a ball control defense. The running is pretty good getting rid of Maroney and featuring Law Firm has been a good one so far. Gronk & Hernandez are what BB was hoping Graham and Watson would be. We have enough weapons to have a very good offense.


Tate will be seeing a lot of single coverage, we will still get our chances to go downfield. Moss is a great player, but he isn't a team. We will make the playoffs and be a dangerous.


With the current roster and the draft picks we have we will have a very good roster for the rest of Brady's carer and he will have a couple more rings with this group.

I have been a Pats fan for 50 years this is a great time compared to the vast majority of the franchise's existence.

 

[JMarr]

That's absurd. This team will be firing on all cylinders by next season.

I'd be curious to know how you've come to this conclusion. Quite a leap of faith if you ask me.

 

[JMarr]

What has happened the past 2 years in the draft will be the best thing that could happen for Brady's career. We have the youngest defense in the league, they are making mistakes right now, BUT they are improving each week. By the end of the year they will be a good defense IMO. Next year they could be an elite defense.


They have made a decision to go to more of a ball control defense. The running is pretty good getting rid of Maroney and featuring Law Firm has been a good one so far. Gronk & Hernandez are what BB was hoping Graham and Watson would be. We have enough weapons to have a very good offense.


Tate will be seeing a lot of single coverage, we will still get our chances to go downfield. Moss is a great player, but he isn't a team. We will make the playoffs and be a dangerous.


With the current roster and the draft picks we have we will have a very good roster for the rest of Brady's carer and he will have a couple more rings with this group.

I have been a Pats fan for 50 years this is a great time compared to the vast majority of the franchise's existence.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but regarding the improved running game, the TEs, and switching to a new "ball control defense" [sic-offense?] you're using a sample size about the size of a thimble in making these assumptions.

 

[JackBauer]

I'd be curious to know how you've come to this conclusion. Quite a leap of faith if you ask me.

Not really. Lots of young players who are showing tons of potentials and should be hitting their primes in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Ring 6]

I hate this Moss trade and am devastated about it. However, I could kind of see the logic in it long term. This team is clearly in transition and has a lot of growing to do so to think for long term success a few years down the road makes sense. If Brady was 28.

Brady is 33 and has only 4 more guaranteed years as a Pat before his abilities will start to come into question. We all know he is a GOAT HOF QB in his prime, so I am almost outraged that the team seems to be header in a direction where they just don't really care to utilize him to his full potential in the limited time they have him. Obviously they want him, otherwise they wouldn't have payed him a mountain of gold, but they certainly aren't doing him any favors.

Are the Pats really complacent to just let Brady have a few more decent years with no huge team successes just to set the team up after he retires? By then we will be lucky to be in a QB situation like Miami where we might have someone who is decent. I tremendously doubt we have a Steve Young waiting somewhere in the wings.

Brady's time is now so either we make a huge move right now to get some talent on either side of the ball or this Moss trade was just a waste.

This trade was about this year not the future. (The future consideration was why he was traded instead of cut)
I have absolutely no doubt that Moss was shutting it down, and would have been more of a detriment to the offense as the season wore on.
If you really think the 3rd round pick was so important we couldnt pass it up, you are not paying attention.
I think this trade will be the BEST thing for Brady.
Brady was stuck in the dilemma of using Moss because he knows what he is capable of, or ignoring Moss because he can't trust his effort (See the Jets game, Moss pretty much Fed Brady over in the 2nd half)
Brady won as often without Moss as he has with Moss. Brady doesnt need Moss. It is nice to have him as a weapon when his head is in it, but the decisions a QB has to make to get the most out of Moss are not necessarily the ones that fit Brady best.
If you look at all of the games over the last 3 years where the offense underperformed, Moss typically was not productive in those games, and oftentmes was thrown to a lot in them.
Brady is completing somewhewre near 70% of his passes this season yet Moss caught 9 of 22 attempts. I'll take the extra 6 completions that spreading the ball would have gotten on those, if at the expense of a deep pass every few games.

 

[Patriot Missile]

This trade was about this year not the future. (The future consideration was why he was traded instead of cut)
I have absolutely no doubt that Moss was shutting it down, and would have been more of a detriment to the offense as the season wore on.
If you really think the 3rd round pick was so important we couldnt pass it up, you are not paying attention.
I think this trade will be the BEST thing for Brady.
Brady was stuck in the dilemma of using Moss because he knows what he is capable of, or ignoring Moss because he can't trust his effort (See the Jets game, Moss pretty much Fed Brady over in the 2nd half)
Brady won as often without Moss as he has with Moss. Brady doesnt need Moss. It is nice to have him as a weapon when his head is in it, but the decisions a QB has to make to get the most out of Moss are not necessarily the ones that fit Brady best.
If you look at all of the games over the last 3 years where the offense underperformed, Moss typically was not productive in those games, and oftentmes was thrown to a lot in them.
Brady is completing somewhewre near 70% of his passes this season yet Moss caught 9 of 22 attempts. I'll take the extra 6 completions that spreading the ball would have gotten on those, if at the expense of a deep pass every few games.

Loved the last sentence.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I'd be curious to know how you've come to this conclusion. Quite a leap of faith if you ask me.

He's just pulling that right out of his a**.

The Pats had by far the best core of players in the NFL after the 2005 super bowl with little needs to address. And did I mention they had the best QB in the NFL?

They're all gone with a ton of question marks.

Quite sad if you ask me. But when you make millions like they do, they don't care as much as fans do.

True story.

 

[Ring 6]

Why couldn't the Pats have won last year? They went 10-6, and would have been 11-5 if they'd had a reason to care in Week 17. They lost to the Ravens largely because the Ravens could run the ball at will on them by running directly at wherever Wilfork wasn't. It's obviously not a guarantee that they would win the SB, and the chances aren't particularly good for anyone, but I find it strange that people can look at a team that won its division and went into the playoffs as a #3 seed and say it couldn't have won a SB if you'd put a HOF-caliber player in at one of the biggest weak points on its roster.

Seriously, if the 2001 team was good enough to win it, then you can't convince me that the 2009 team and 2010 team didn't have a shot. Hell, they still have a shot, but it just got a whole lot smaller. If you guys think the Pats should only try to field the best team possible in years where it's a slam dunk that they'll be in the SB, then you're going to wait a long time for something that'll never happen. Nothing's ever a sure thing, just look at 2007. As long as you have a QB like Brady, you always have a chance, and IMO it's irresponsible not to make the most of this chance. They did it in 2009 and now they're doing it again in 2010. Some would even say that they did it in 2006, although I agreed with that one since Branch wasn't even close to as good as Moss/Seymour, and he was going to hold out whereas the other guys were willing to play.

Obviously this should all be taken with an enormous grain of salt, since Belichick does this for a living and I'm just another drunk, kinda angry fan, but acting like Belichick is infallible and couldn't possibly have made a mistake because the Pats won 3 SBs 5+ years ago isn't constructive either. There have been some significant mistakes made since then, and I think that this'll turn out to be one of them.

The Seymour trade was a chance to get an awful lot of value for a guy who was leaving in a year. I think it was made knowing it weakened the 09 team, but believing they could win without him (you do have to consider all of the guys who were among the best players on the team lost to injury in the SB years to recognize that overcoming the loss of one player no matter how good is not as scary as it seems) but simply was offered too much to pass up.
I mean it could well be a top 5 pick with a cap numnber that is 1/3 of what a top 5 cost before the rookie cap. That is a home run of value in the big picture.
This one, IMO, was simply dumping Randy Moss. If no one offered a trade I'm sure Moss would have been benched, suspended or cut. There is no way that Moss without an incredible amount of anti-team attitude gets traded for a 3rd round pick,he has more value as a decoy.
I've seen issues in Moss' play this year, and hoped they were anomolies, but BB just came right out and told us he believed Randy Moss was not going to help the PAtriots win this year, at least in the net effect of what he did to bring down the team concept.

I am sure that this will appear to look like a mistake on some levels. Moss is absolutely going to be more productive in Minn that he has been or would be here. Simply because the effort will be there.
I dont think that qualifies it as a mistake though, because the player you will see for Minn is not the player we would have seen here. He asked for a trade, then gave up and sold out his teammates. He will start fresh with a new team and play better. But dont think we would have gotten that here.

 

[Froob]

There is not a doubt in my mind that Belichick feels that the chances of NE winning another SB are just as good with Hoyer as with Brady. He is in complete re-build mode. The so-called "Brady Window" doesn't even register, or is ignored. Thanks Bill, maybe in another 3 or 4 years this team will be solid on all fronts because of all the draft picks you're hoarding.....right about when Hoyer replaces an aging and less effective Brady ala Bledsoe.

At this rate they may want to start looking into Hoyer's replacement

 

[patsfan13]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but regarding the improved running game, the TEs, and switching to a new "ball control defense" [sic-offense?] you're using a sample size about the size of a thimble in making these assumptions.

If you consider 4 games a small sample.

OTOH the coaches see the players in practice every day, they see them in the film room and at team meetings they see the game film in detail knowing what each players were on each play. They are in a good position to judge the progression of the young players.

There is also the large sample size of Belicheck teams improving over the course of the year. With the young talent getting experience each game we should see much more improvement than normal.

IMO