Merged again and again: I do/don't like the Moss trade because...

[shmessy]

Only a fool would think it a negative, since "potential" does not equal "requirement".

So, you see the right to sign him as a free agent after the season as a quantifiable asset not shared by the other 31 teams? You see that as an asset that the Patriots have just traded away?

 

[tombonneau]

Is Moss an elite deep threat option anymore? He hasn't been since last November. Other than that one handed TD catch, has he really done anything that Tate or another receiver couldn't do? I think Hernandez has been far more dynamic and wow-enducing than Moss has been this year. I will give you that Moss has been a good decoy this year, but does that make him irreplaceable?

I didn't say Moss leaving wouldn't hurt the offense. I am saying I doubt this offense would collapse without him. There is still a lot of talent on it and one of the best QBs of all time on it. Moss has not been a consistent playmaker this season and that is only way this offense would completely implode with his loss. It isn't as good as it was yesterday, but it is still pretty good.

I just don't see the logic in upsetting the apple cart of the #1 scoring offense in the NFL, on a team with a young, shaky D that is going to need to win a lot of shoot outs.

A "pretty good" offense isn't going to cut it in a lot of these games this year. The offense needs to be "very good" as the defense in a lot of games will be "very bad."

Sorry, but dealing with Moss's alleged prima donna attitude was a necessary evil for the team to compete in 2010. Just too bad BB didn't want to deal with it.

 

[emoney_33]

In three wins, 7 catches for 101 yards and two TDs combined. You can't find many WRs in this league that can produce 2.3 catchs for 33.7 yards and 0.7 TDs a game.

Losing Moss hurts, but let's not make it like he is getting 7 catches for 101 yards and 2 TDs a game. He was invisible on Monday night. Against the Bengals he had one great play for 32 yards and four more decent plays. He has been more valuable as the role of decoy for stretches in this season than anything else. Let's not make it sound like he was on his way to a 1,300 yard, 20 TD season.

Wow, nice spin Rob

 

[JackBauer]

Can we stop belittling great players with obviously stupid comments impugning their abilities? It's a pathetic attempt by the homers to try justifying yet another unforced error by BB. Y'all pulled that same crap with the Seymour trade last year. It was ridiculous then, and it's ridiculous now.

How are you calling this unforced? If what's being reported about this trade is accurate, it's clearly forced.

Moreover, nothing Rob has said about Moss is untrue. Personally, I'm not thrilled with this but I'm willing to let the dust settle and see how the team approaches life post-Moss before I render a final judgment.

 

[shmessy]

So who stretch the field now? Woodhead This dink and dunk now made it easy now for all teams. Good luck you going to need it.

Me cjets1 Tarzan, you Jane. Me hungry, now me go get food and root for fat loud buffoonish Jets coach.

 

[D-Money]

I doubt this team would go after a vincent jackson.This team will go to war with wat it has and damn the season.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Its going to hurt to lose Moss but I remember Brady being a pretty good QB before Moss, his percentage numbers are up since Moss arrived but Im confident Brady can keep the offense moving the chains.
Maybe we trade or draft another tp wideout.
This also must mean they want to extend Welker.

 

[Deus Irae]

How are you calling this unforced? If what's being reported about this trade is accurate, it's clearly forced.

Nonsense.

1.) Players under contract can't force trades.

2.) Just as with several other contract problems that the Patriots have allowed to arise because of poor decisions by the front office, this could have been completely avoided by dealing with the situation earlier.

Moreover, nothing Rob has said about Moss is untrue. Personally, I'm not thrilled with this but I'm willing to let the dust settle and see how the team approaches life post-Moss before I render a final judgment.

Pretty much everything Rob said was wrong ("I am saying I doubt this offense would collapse without him. There is still a lot of talent on it and one of the best QBs of all time on it. " has a part that's clearly true and another that remains to be seen). I wasn't singling anyone out, though. Rob's certainly not the only poster who's been denigrating Moss.

 

[Garbanza]

Oy! Does this make the team worse, short term? Yes! Will they be better, long term? Yes! Relax already. The Pats defense was NOT (is not) SB caliber....yet. You'd think we had a legitimate shot fer crissakes....

 

[shmessy]

Can we stop belittling great players with obviously stupid comments impugning their abilities? It's a pathetic attempt by the homers to try justifying yet another unforced error by BB. Y'all pulled that same crap with the Seymour trade last year. It was ridiculous then, and it's ridiculous now.

I loved having Randy Moss on the team. I feel he was a good guy here. Whatever happened behind closed doors, even if he behaved like a Troy Brown, the fact remained that the 33 year old Moss in 2010 was not going to get the contract he wanted to remain a Patriot past this year.

Throw in the fact that Randy Moss' best performances tend towards the first half of seasons in warmer weather and he has tended to trail off in second halves of seasons this trade (while I would have wanted to squeeze a 2nd rounder out of the desperado Vikings who are 1-2 and clinging to a cliff with a 40 year QB), while painful is something I can understand - - not saying I'm celebrating it.

.....now on another subject, since you brought it up at the end, yes I AM celebrating that Seymour trade - -THAT'S looking GREAT.

 

[Sciz]

The more that I think about it, the more this whole Moss ordeal compares to Adalius Thomas

AD:
1. Came in embracing the Patriot Way (I remember something about humble pie)
2. Had success his first few seasons here
3. Skills declined (especially ability to pass-rush)
4. Complained about role (wanted to pass-rush more)
5. Bad-mouthed organization publicly ("Ask Bill")
6. Cut as soon as the cap allowed for it

Moss:
1. Was very glad to be with Patriots (and get out of Oakland)
2. Had amazing success the first few seasons here
3. Skills declined (especially ability to catch the ball and get open)
4. Complained about role (to O'Brien privately about catches/targets)
5. Bad-mouth organization (mostly about contract and not feeling wanted)
6. Shipped off for a 3rd round pick

 

[Rob0729]

I just don't see the logic in upsetting the apple cart of the #1 scoring offense in the NFL, on a team with a young, shaky D that is going to need to win a lot of shoot outs.

A "pretty good" offense isn't going to cut it in a lot of these games this year. The offense needs to be "very good" as the defense in a lot of games will be "very bad."

Sorry, but dealing with Moss's alleged prima donna attitude was a necessary evil for the team to compete in 2010. Just too bad BB didn't want to deal with it.

First, did the Pats have a choice? If Moss is becoming increasing headache and becoming a bad influence on the younger players.

Second, how do we know if the offense won't be great without Moss? Brady seems to be back to his old form and he has more weapons than he may ever had even without Moss. Hernandez looks to be already ready to burst into an elite TE although it is a bit early. Tate has been outplaying Moss for the most part so far.

I am just not convinced this offense will even take a significant step back without Moss. His role has been mostly decoy this season and if that didn't change in a few weeks, that role would diminish since defenses would not be as concerned with him.

 

[tombonneau]

Its going to hurt to lose Moss but I remember Brady being a pretty good QB before Moss, his percentage numbers are up since Moss arrived but Im confident Brady can keep the offense moving the chains.
Maybe we trade or draft another tp wideout.
This also must mean they want to extend Welker.

I also remember the defense being pretty good without Moss. People tend to forget that when pointing to the team's pre-Moss success.

 

[JackBauer]

Nonsense.

1.) Players under contract can't force trades.

2.) Just as with several other contract problems that the Patriots have allowed to arise because of poor decisions by the front office, this could have been completely avoided by dealing with the situation earlier.

So you'd rather keep a malcontent Randy Moss on the roster after he gets in a shouting match with the OC at halftime during one of the most important games of the year?

Do you really think, given his history, that would have played out well for the Patriots?

Moreover, without knowing the exact details on contract negotiations I'm not sure how the second point can be taken as anything other than your speculation. Unless there has been information released that I've missed.

Pretty much everything Rob said was wrong. I wasn't singling anyone out, though.

Okay. We'll just disagree on those points then.

 

[tombonneau]

First, did the Pats have a choice? If Moss is becoming increasing headache and becoming a bad influence on the younger players.

Second, how do we know if the offense won't be great without Moss? Brady seems to be back to his old form and he has more weapons than he may ever had even without Moss. Hernandez looks to be already ready to burst into an elite TE although it is a bit early. Tate has been outplaying Moss for the most part so far.

I am just not convinced this offense will even take a significant step back without Moss. His role has been mostly decoy this season and if that didn't change in a few weeks, that role would diminish since defenses would not be as concerned with him.

Absolutely the team had a choice. Does everyone forget the Ty Law BB smear campaign where he tried to shoot his way out of town with a bazooka? BB managed to keep his cool and the dust settled and Law returned. He could have done the same thing with Moss, he just didn't want to.

I agree the offense will still be good, but I don't think it will be great. It definitely takes a major step back without Moss. Let's just say the defensive coaches on the Ravens were cracking open a couple beers last night.

 

[tombonneau]

Oy! Does this make the team worse, short term? Yes! Will they be better, long term? Yes! Relax already. The Pats defense was NOT (is not) SB caliber....yet. You'd think we had a legitimate shot fer crissakes....

I don't see any reason why this defense in December can't be playing as well as the 09 Saints defense.

 

[D-Money]

I think Moss's skills did not decline.I think he was dogging it because he didnt get a contract extension.I also think that Moss is not a fan of O'Brien's dink and dunk offense.Watch and see how Moss plays with the vikings.

 

[Metaphors]

I would say that 5th comp is about 95% guaranteed. I don't see too many realistic scenarios where it doesn't happen. You expect him to bolt to the CFL or UFL?

No, but the Pats just might sign a qualifying FA that would balance out Moss, eliminating any compensation. Doesn't sound unrealistic to me. And that assumes the rules stay the same in the next CBA.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I also remember the defense being pretty good without Moss. People tend to forget that when pointing to the team's pre-Moss success.

I sure didnt forget, this defense is young and Im sure BB wants them to embrace the Patriot way, they look like they're starting to "get it" and maybe he doesnt want an unhappy Moss to upset the applecart.
Hey, I wish Moss would shut up and just play and everyone got along and keep this offense rolling but he didnt and now hes gone, time to look forward.

 

[Deus Irae]

So you'd rather keep a malcontent Randy Moss on the roster after he gets in a shouting match with the OC at halftime during one of the most important games of the year?

Do you really think, given his history, that would have played out well for the Patriots?

Moreover, without knowing the exact details on contract negotiations I'm not sure how the second point can be taken as anything other than your speculation. Unless there has been information released that I've missed.

Moss wanted an extension. The Patriots could either have given him that extension, or they could have traded Moss before the season and gotten another receiver to take his place. Guys like Boldin, just to point to one example, were certainly available. Barring that, they could have just required Moss to play out the season, per his contract.

As of right now, this team's WR3 is either Edelman or Price. Let's not pretend that this isn't another Patriots screw up.