Scott Pioli was the problem

[Uncle Rico]

I think everyone has gone nuts. Two pre-season games and everyone is thinks the pats have actually done something. Who the heck knows how these guys will turn out, but I don't think these two games tell us anything.

I think pretty much everyone on this board understands that this is preseason and, as a certain Tuna might say, "Let's not put them in Canton yet."

But I don't think there's anything wrong in being happy with what we've seen. We're not talking Bam Childress/Michael Bishop curiosities here; the reports on all of these guys have been pretty consistent from mini camp to camp to pre-season games. Of course they haven't officially done anything yet; it's mid August. But I don't think you can dismiss camp and pre-season games completely; they do have some value in assessing how a team might be. And that's where we are; we can't change the calendar.

People here are just saying they're looking forward to September 12. Which is better than dreading it.

One interesting dynamic to watch this week: The Pats will now be expected to wreak havoc on the Rams this weak. In a way, it's a "can't win" situation. Let's see how they, and the fans, handle that expectation.

 

[Richard Camembert]

This is what some analysts overlook when criticizing the Patriots drafts from '06-'08. There were some missed opportunities, to be sure, but they did a terrific job trading away weak picks in weak drafts and stockpiling picks for what turned out to be much better drafts in 09 and especially 10. That sort of foresight, seeing the draft as an ongoing process and not just a year-to-year thing, is rare.

And I think the analysts especially miss when they dismiss the acquisitions of Moss and Welker as not part of the draft because they weren't picks. What two players, in any draft, have had the impact of Welker and Moss, who were acquired with 07 draft assets?

Yeah, and we'll never know what Pioli would have done with the past two years' worth of draft picks. He was part of the 3 SB teams, hard to see he was a problem, really. To me he's one of the guys who stockpiled the picks and then moved on without reaping the benefits. It does seem that we're drafting better lately though.

"Well, Richard, how about his ineptitude in KC? Doesn't that show what's really going on?"

Too soon to tell how inept KC's talent acquisition has been. Berry seems like a good building block, I like Jones, the whole franchise has been a disaster and the D is young.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

when Scott Pioli said the above that he was lying.

Scott Pioli Press Conference Quotes

First folks call Pioli a bad drafter and now a liar! When will the Pioli bashing stop?

(Context is everything)

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I think everyone has gone nuts. Two pre-season games and everyone is thinks the pats have actually done something. Who the heck knows how these guys will turn out, but I don't think these two games tell us anything.

We can only look at maybe 1 1/2 quarters per game to get an indication of how things are going. My impressions of the 1st and 2nd year guys so far (that are expected to play regularly):

- they look fast and athletic
- the defenders are hitting and the skill players are making plays
- they physically matched up with NO, and dominated the Falcons
- they're looking crisp like they generally know what they're doing: no hiccups with substitutions, not many penalties etc.

They basically look like veterans out there.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Maybe you should wait until these players pan out before declaring that. Being annointed a starter or contributor doesn't end all doubts. Promising yes, but not yet a success.

 

[DaBruinz]

A few things:
1) Not only did Scott Pioli say that he and BB had to agree on Picks before they were taken, BB has said do himself.

2) There was no great influx of Juniors in either the 2009 or 2010 drafts like many people thought would happen. This was mentioned by all the talking heads (Schefter, LaConforna, Kiper, etc). The numbers were basically the same as other years.

How can anyone grade Pioli's drafts in KC yet when he's only had 2 and it takes 3 years for the 1st one to develop???

There are a variety of things that have happened since 2008. Dmitroff moved on. Pioli moved on. There have been a few scouts who have moved on as well. And the Pats have added Reese and Caserio is not the man.

So, before we go burning Scott Pioli effigees, lets just wish him well and be done with it.. He was instrumental in helping this team to 4 SBs and winning 3 of them. That's not going to change.

 

[rookBoston]

... I'm getting that sinking feeling about Cunningham, noboday has seen this kid, and he is really needed, to provide a pass rush. Is he hurt? Where is he? Is he staying at Crable's house???????

If you're going to give Tate a pass for a year on IR, then I hope you can give Cunningham the benefit of the doubt for what has only been a couple of weeks of injury time in the preseason of his rookie year. We needed Tate last year, but that is gone and forgotten now that he's producing.

We'll see what the brainstrust drafted once Cunningham gets on the field with the playbook in his head, with time and some patience. And, remember, even healthy, he's learning a new position.

Also, remember that BB generally brings his defensive players along pretty slowly... Meriweather didn't play till very late as a rookie, Chung is only just turning the corner on playing time now. Even guys like Wilfork sat on the bench as rookies (he was playing behind Ted Washington... so, of course).

Brace could still be our next Ty Warren. We haven't seen proof to the contrary (except that Brace reported out of shape... wtf?, learn to be a pro, kid). And Cunningham could still be Roman Phifer for us.

Rare exceptions are guys like Mayo and Seymour, who started on D in Week One. But, that's why they were top-10ish draft picks. And that's also what makes it so impressive that Spikes is getting so much trust to run the show right off the bat. Either he's really that good, or (just as likely) the coaching staff really don't have any better options on the roster.

 

[WinstonSmith]

"They're has not been a player that we brought here that Bill Belichick and I did not agree on. I've known Bill since I was in college and we have a personal relationship and a high level of mutual respect. If there is a player that Bill does not like and I like, it's kind of a feel thing. You get to a certain point and whoever doesn't believe in the player or whoever believes in the player, you kind of stop pushing. Bill and I have been fortunate. If we agree on a player, we know that we have a pretty thing."

I guess that when Scott Pioli said the above that he was lying.

Scott Pioli Press Conference Quotes

Miguel – I was thinking of the same quote. Regardless of whom the “GM” is - Bill has the final say.

The Patriots certainly have made some recent questionable picks prior to the last 2 drafts, but as Uncle Rico points out they had the foresight to gauge the market and made educated decisions based on current market conditions and future market assumptions. Having the discipline to leverage a current asset to pay future dividends is truly rare today in the sports world – let alone in the “what have you done for me lately” world of the NFL.

Though, I do believe that Pioli leaving was ultimately a good thing for the Belichick led Pats. Most here are familiar with the 10 year rule regarding coaching; that due to a combination of league assimilation of what initially were ingenious paradigm shift ideas, burn-out, and the propensity of coaches to fall back on what worked as opposed to what works best, that most successful coaches have around a 10 year successful shelf life. Bill still seems to have the desire to adapt and absorb new ideas and is humble enough to even learn a thing or two from some of his young apprentices – such as Josh McDaniels. If you are not changing at the top –it’s helpful to have the occasional orderly change directly below to help keep the infusion of new ideas flowing and the quest for perfection moving forward.

Floyd Reese and his minions have done a good job too date – but they owe part of their success to the position that Pioli and Belichick put them in.

Although Pioli is off to a slow start in KC he still has a chance to make his mark and help turn the franchise around. I wish him the best.

 

[Ring 6]

Just to insert come facts.
A) What Miguel said
B) Floyd Reese is not involved in drafting here
C) If Scott Pioli was 'the problem' please bring in more problems. We were the most successful franchise in the NFL in his tenure, and the 10 year spans in NFL history that were mor successul can be counted twice on one hand

 

[patsfan-1982]

Scott Pioli, was a big Problem he was only a big part of 3 super bowls and the only 16-0 season in NFL history thet S.O.B

 

[SanAngeloState]

Most likely, Pioli was a bum. It was probably his idea for Guss Scott, remembe him? Dexter Reid? The late guy from LSU? Cedric Cobbs?

I can't think of any just outright whiffs since he's been gone. Brace maybe drafted too high and the jury is out on Price still.

BB has drafted guys who seem more like a sure thing than the fliers that were drafted with Pioli. I can't prove it was all his fault, but the stiffs he's taking in KC don't speak well for him.

As for the "yeah, 3 SBs, so he must be good", maybe they were in spite of him, not because of him.

And yes, I know BB has to sign off on them, but if Pioli is pushing someone, maybe BB didn't feel like raining on his parade.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Scott Pioli, was a big Problem he was only a big part of 3 super bowls and the only 16-0 season in NFL history thet S.O.B

You might not be aware of this but there is a difference between correlation and causation, I recommend looking into this.

 

[Ring 6]

And yes, I know BB has to sign off on them, but if Pioli is pushing someone, maybe BB didn't feel like raining on his parade.

Are yuo serious? BB would rather make a bad draft pick that hurt Pioli's feelings. There is no way you can really believe this unless you just heard of this Belichick guy last week and are trying to figure out who he is. Come on.

 

[larryo]

B) Floyd Reese is not involved in drafting here

Why wouldn't they want this guy involved in the drafting?

"He has successfully drafted a Rookie of the Year in over 27% of his first round selections." - wikipedia

and why would the Pats roll him out to talk about the draft at at the pre-draft season ticket holder event?

I know people feel that he doesn't have anything to do with the Pats draft but I believe he does. Also have heard Pat Kirwan mention him and the Patriots draft and that right there is enough evidence for me. I just don't believe they bring in a 30 year NFL guy who built a Super Bowl team as GM just to do contracts.

 

[Deus Irae]

Most likely, Pioli was a bum. It was probably his idea for Guss Scott, remembe him? Dexter Reid? The late guy from LSU? Cedric Cobbs?

I can't think of any just outright whiffs since he's been gone. Brace maybe drafted too high and the jury is out on Price still.

BB has drafted guys who seem more like a sure thing than the fliers that were drafted with Pioli. I can't prove it was all his fault, but the stiffs he's taking in KC don't speak well for him.

As for the "yeah, 3 SBs, so he must be good", maybe they were in spite of him, not because of him.

And yes, I know BB has to sign off on them, but if Pioli is pushing someone, maybe BB didn't feel like raining on his parade.

Gronkowski missed a full season with his back injury
Tate blew out his ACL as a senior
Edelman is a QB conversion

Those would be fliers.....

Berry
McCluster
Arenas
Asamoah
Moeaki
Lewis

That's 6 of the Chiefs' 7 draft picks this year, and all 6 of them look as if they'll be starters or major contributors in year 1. The 7th pick is a DE to OLB conversion that was taken in the 5th round.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I like the way some morons throw former Patriots and executives under the bus once they are gone...pathetic and ******ed - stop this sh!t please

Waiting for the idiots who are going to post a thread about "glad we got rid of Dimitroff,he sucked"

Some of you really need to get a grasp...not one of this years rookies has played a meaningful down in a regular season game and already some are jumping the gun and crowning this years draft a gift of god....
What the hell is wrong with some of you? - can't you wait a few REAL REGULAR SEASON weeks before seeing what these guys REALLY have as an NFL player?

 

[Ring 6]

Why wouldn't they want this guy involved in the drafting?

"He has successfully drafted a Rookie of the Year in over 27% of his first round selections." - wikipedia

and why would the Pats roll him out to talk about the draft at at the pre-draft season ticket holder event?

I know people feel that he doesn't have anything to do with the Pats draft but I believe he does. Also have heard Pat Kirwan mention him and the Patriots draft and that right there is enough evidence for me. I just don't believe they bring in a 30 year NFL guy who built a Super Bowl team as GM just to do contracts.

I have to put more stock in what the team says his role is than what you want it to be, dont I? Why would they lie?

 

[SanAngeloState]

Gronkowski missed a full season with his back injury
Tate blew out his ACL as a senior
Edelman is a QB conversion

Those would be fliers.....

Berry
McCluster
Arenas
Asamoah
Moeaki
Lewis

That's 6 of the Chiefs' 7 draft picks this year, and all 6 of them look as if they'll be starters or major contributors in year 1. The 7th pick is a DE to OLB conversion that was taken in the 5th round.

Yes but Gronk and Tate had great production and there was no reason to think they wouldn't be 100%.

Berry is an easy pick, they were picking at the top of the 1st round. Mccluster is a flier, too light to play RB consistently. Arenas is too slow to play CB, at best a PR. Asamoah is a guard who will probably be a JAG. Moeiki was constantly injured if I recall correctly. Lewis I don't know.

Time will tell but I think Pioli was likely a bum.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

This is kind of like having a bowl of great clam chowder and trying to determine whether the clams or the broth make it great. I take Miguel's quote at face value: it was most likely a process that relied equally on two passionate and knowledgeable guys.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I think everyone has gone nuts. Two pre-season games and everyone is thinks the pats have actually done something. Who the heck knows how these guys will turn out, but I don't think these two games tell us anything.

Yeah, it's sounding like a Jets thread.