How worried are you about not having Mankins?

[Ring 6]

Great.... where's the LG on the 2010 roster who's a street free agent and demonstrably capable of getting the job done?

In fairness, none of the Gs in those years came here with any kind of resume of high hopes.

 

[mgteich]

Belichick has already brought in a guard who has started for years. I look for a couple of more to come in before Game 1. We've certainly won with weaker guards that Connolly and Kaczur. Personally, I would like us to bring in a vet if Mankins isn't here. After all, Neal is unlikely to play the entire year.

I think there is room on the roster for three backups for the interior line instead of the usual two because Kaczur is available as the #4 OT if necessary. One can be vet. That leaves us Connolly and one of the kids, or two kids if Dante has condidence in them. In the end, the unkown is Dante's confidence in Ohrnberger, Bussey, and Larsen. Wendell should even be considered. He was given full roster pay to be on the Practice Squad in 2009.

 

[Ring 6]

2001,2003,2004. Name all the guards on those teams that were not street free agents.
















*C/G shift

Certainly the team has shown the ability to suceed with players who stepped in without great expectations at OL.
LT- Light started as a rookie, Kaczur started as a rookie when Light was injured
LG- Compton was an afterthought who no one really exected to start
C- Koppen started as a rookie 5th round pick
RG- Andruzzi was a practice squad cast off. Hochstein, well just ask Warren Sapp
RT- Klemm, GRR, Kenyatta Jones, Ashworth. A revolving door of guys no one expected anything from.
I'm pretty happy with the last 10 years of OL and the results we got with so many question mark guys needing to start.

 

[Schmo]

Belichick has already brought in a guard who has started for years. I look for a couple of more to come in before Game 1. We've certainly won with weaker guards that Connolly and Kaczur. Personally, I would like us to bring in a vet if Mankins isn't here. After all, Neal is unlikely to play the entire year.

I think there is room on the roster for three backups for the interior line instead of the usual two because Kaczur is available as the #4 OT if necessary. One can be vet. That leaves us Connolly and one of the kids, or two kids if Dante has condidence in them. In the end, the unkown is Dante's confidence in Ohrnberger, Bussey, and Larsen. Wendell should even be considered. He was given full roster pay to be on the Practice Squad in 2009.

Who would think anyone would refer to Kaczur as competent and versatile?

 

[Ring 6]

Who would think anyone would refer to Kaczur as competent and versatile?

I think thats a great description.
The guy has started since his rookie year, starting 62 games on what has been a top 3 offense over that 5 year period.

 

[RayClay]

Great.... where's the LG on the 2010 roster who's a street free agent and demonstrably capable of getting the job done?

You see, they have the draft, where you can pick players you want and the rest become free agents.

Outside of Mike Compton and Woody, none of our SB guards were even drafted.

Amazing how much faith we had in Scarnecchia to mold never drafted linemen in the past and now have no faith in him to mold a bunch of guards we've kept.

I'd rather have Mankins too, but it doesn't seem to be in the cards. We have a bunch of guards with in their second, third and fourth years. That's more than we've had in the past.

 

[Deus Irae]

You see, they have the draft, where you can pick players you want and the rest become free agents.

Outside of Mike Compton and Woody, none of our SB guards were even drafted.

Amazing how much faith we had in Scarnecchia to mold never drafted linemen in the past and now have no faith in him to mold a bunch of guards we've kept.

I'd rather have Mankins too, but it doesn't seem to be in the cards. We have a bunch of guards with in their second, third and fourth years. That's more than we've had in the past.

Again.... where is this street FA guard who's capable of getting the job done on the roster? Given that the team is trying to convert Kaczur to the position, it would seem that your point fails at the present time.......

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Dante and Belichick consider Kaczur a valuable member of the team.

Kaczur is a much better linemen than most on this board give him credit for. He started at LT in his first year and then moved to RT when Light was healthy. Anyone not on this board rating OT's considers Kaczur a very good tackle. He is a 5-year starter at both tackle positions. The open question is whether he can be effective at left guard. I would have fewer question marks at RG, but I would expect that Kaczur can handle starting at LG.

Even if he doesn't start (and Connolly does), Kaczur would be the perfect game Day backup at all the guard and tackle positions, allowing a pure center like Larsen to be the other Game Day backup.

Belichick was at a decision point last year with Kaczur. belichick decided that Kaczur wqas worth a 3-year extension at very reasonable pay. Many on this board strongly disagreed with Belichick's decision.

Who would think anyone would refer to Kaczur as competent and versatile?

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, Dante and Belichick consider Kaczur a valuable member of the team.

Kaczur is a much better linemen than most on this board give him credit for. He started at LT in his first year and then moved to RT when Light was healthy. Anyone not on this board rating OT's considers Kaczur a very good tackle. He is a 5-year starter at both tackle positions. The open question is whether he can be effective at left guard. I would have fewer question marks at RG, but I would expect that Kaczur can handle starting at LG.

Even if he doesn't start (and Connolly does), Kaczur would be the perfect game Day backup at all the guard and tackle positions, allowing a pure center like Larsen to be the other Game Day backup.

Belichick was at a decision point last year with Kaczur. belichick decided that Kaczur wqas worth a 3-year extension at very reasonable pay. Many on this board strongly disagreed with Belichick's decision.

Given that our mean ticket is often 7 yards behind the C with the ball in his hand, I am much more comfortable with a T at G than I would be with a G at T. Kaczur has been a decent pass blocker vs LDEs. He should be a very effective pass blocker vs less pass rushers as a G, providing he handles blitz pickup, but we are talking about a 5 year vet with 62 starts, so its ridiculous to doubt he will be fine there.

 

[Deus Irae]

Belichick has already brought in a guard who has started for years.

Are you referring to the guard who was cut by the Chiefs last season, signed by the Chargers but did not play a game last season, non-tendered by the Chargers, signed earlier this year by the Browns, and then cut by the Browns? Is that the player we should all feel Dante will whip into shape by week one?

 

[RayClay]

Again.... where is this street FA guard who's capable of getting the job done on the roster? Given that the team is trying to convert Kaczur to the position, it would seem that your point fails at the present time.......

Mankins and Neal have been undisputed starters. Do you think the Patriots are keeping all these guards around to have enough players for a game of bridge? You get better by playing. I'm not going to list everyone's name again it's ridiculous.

 

[Kontradiction]

Mankins and Neal have been undisputed starters. Do you think the Patriots are keeping all these guards around to have enough players for a game of bridge? You get better by playing. I'm not going to list everyone's name again it's ridiculous.

I wish I had as much faith in the back-ups as you seem to...

 

[Deus Irae]

Mankins and Neal have been undisputed starters. Do you think the Patriots are keeping all these guards around to have enough players for a game of bridge? You get better by playing. I'm not going to list everyone's name again it's ridiculous.

Great. The question was about being worried due to not having Mankins. You pulled the "street FA" stuff, not me. Listing anyone from the past is irrelevant, since they aren't on the roster. Which was the point.

And Connolly played last season. He just played poorly.

 

[RayClay]

I wish I had as much faith in the back-ups as you seem to...

I don't have faith in them, they have to play. They didn't have to scramble to pick up four guys, they've been in the system one to three years.

Can you name another position at which we've been grooming four players that length of time? It's not like offensive linemen are treasured for their special teams prowess. the whole damned lineup is being turned over to youth, they'll be growing pains. Having an aneurism because we might not have an all pro at one of the guard positions seems a little panicky to me.

 

[eagle eye]

Its not the end of the World if Mankins doesn't turn up but I'd much prefer to have him than not have him.

 

[Ring 6]

I wish I had as much faith in the back-ups as you seem to...

Is it reasonable to have faith that we have plugged so many unknown backups in that have worked out, if it comes to that, they have shown they know how to handle it, and get those guys ready?

 

[Ring 6]

Its not the end of the World if Mankins doesn't turn up but I'd much prefer to have him than not have him.

Agree. If you told me we were going to lose one of our pro-bowl caliber guys, I'd have to say that it beng Mankins resulting in shifting a 5 year starting RT to LG and starting Vollmer at RT, I'd take that one over any other top player I can think of.
Sure it would be great to have him, but its not a disaster to not.

 

[RayClay]

Its not the end of the World if Mankins doesn't turn up but I'd much prefer to have him than not have him.

There you go.

We just picked up a guy who started 42 of 48 games with the Bengals. Admittedly Browns fans thought little of him, but it's just not that hard to pick up a competent guard for nothing, we've done it through our history.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't have faith in them, they have to play. They didn't have to scramble to pick up four guys, they've been in the system one to three years.

Can you name another position at which we've been grooming four players that length of time? It's not like offensive linemen are treasured for their special teams prowess. the whole damned lineup is being turned over to youth, they'll be growing pains. Having an aneurism because we might not have an all pro at one of the guard positions seems a little panicky to me.

Dan Connolly is the primary back-up if Kaczur is not ready to go. I cannot say with any sort of faith that he is going to be competent back-up to a guy who is already backing up another guy that is holding out. As a matter of fact, Connolly was a liability of sorts in the time he saw last year a Stephen Neal's back-up. For Brady's sake, I hope Kaczur heals quickly and is able to get some time in practice getting to know his new role.

 

[Kontradiction]

Is it reasonable to have faith that we have plugged so many unknown backups in that have worked out, if it comes to that, they have shown they know how to handle it, and get those guys ready?

I wouldn't call Connolly one of those guys as of today. Kaczur I have faith in when it comes to playing guard. Playing on the interior line will nullify his weaknesses that we've seen at tackle. I wouldn't be worried at all to see him in there for any significant length of time up to, and including, the entire season. Based on what I've seen of Connolly, I cannot say the same for him.