Stephen Neal re-signed - 2 year deal

[eom]

Re: Stephen Neal re-signed

First, where did you get that information from? Secondly, did those numbers improve or decline with Neal out of the line-up?

I think they have that info over at profootballfocus.

ProFootballFocus.com - By Team

[offense] > [rushing] tabs

 

[VJCPatriot]

Don't we have Bussey and Orhnberger? Or how are they progressing? If we draft a lineman I think one of Mike Johnson OG Alabama or Matt Tennant C/G Boston College could be groomed as a future replacement on the OL. I like the Neal resigning, but let's face it, at age 33, he's probably not got a lot of playing time left to give.

http://www.rolltide.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/johnson_mike00.html
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=78053&draftyear=2010&genpos=C

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Stephen Neal re-signed

I think they have that info over at profootballfocus.

ProFootballFocus.com - By Team

[offense] > [rushing] tabs

I assumed it was from footballoutsiders.com, but they're both pretty good. FO is a better site though, IMO, with better stats.

 

[muzz]

Re: Stephen Neal re-signed

Did you hear about Wilfork drawing interest anywhere? While he was franchised, he was eligible to pursue offers from other teams. No, you didn't. Because the Pats made him a priority. Ditto for Neal.

I saw him mentioned on other forums, there were fans of other teams that wanted Big Vince.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Re: Stephen Neal re-signed

I'm glad Mr. Neal is back in the fold.

 

[pats1]

Re: Stephen Neal re-signed

Really ? Kind of strange how one of the best guards in the league wasn't even tendered by the team and not only was he not tendered, he was free to the league and guess why he's back........take a guess.......you got it.

Tendered? Unrestricted free agents don't get "tendered." Get a clue.

NO ONE WANTED HIM ............. !

No one wanted him because they didn't know if he was retiring or not.

Imagine that, one team did want him, one coach wants him back, he loves seeing the right side of his OLine get abused, welcome back Stephen "On the Back Nine" Neal.

You have completely disregarded the stats. I suggest you check out Pro Football Focus.com and how they breakdown each run.

He was the one guy I hope walked.....Nope, leave it to BB to reup a guy like this. Pierre Woods is on the verge or a major 5 year deal, I can sense it.

 

[italian pat patriot]

happy for it - always a Neal fan

good; now let's hope he will be healthy next season

 

[RobertWeathers]

Don't want to get too deep in the profootballfocus and football insiders statistical breakdown of Neal, but it does indicate that hes a pretty darn good player. We also know that without Neal, the Pats ability to run and pass block does seem to be a little shaky or not as good with him in there.

I'm certain that this is a pretty team-friendly deal which essentially my be a one-year deal if the kids develop behind him.

Neal is a solid team guy who, when on the field (big if IMO) can still perform at a good level.

Any reports of how much guaranteed money if any?

Good signing. Good for Neal. Good for the Pats.

 

[upstater1]

The breakdown of Neal's contract is interesting:

From Reiss:

STEPHEN NEAL FOLLOW-UP: Following up on the two-year, $6.5 million contract signed by Stephen Neal. The deal includes a $2 million signing bonus and pays Neal a base salary of $1.5 million in 2010 and $3 million in 2011 ($1 million guaranteed). Neal can earn $100,000 each in 2010 and 2011 in the form of workout bonuses.

The Patriots certainly aren't taking advantage of an uncapped year with this contract. It counts twice as much in two years as it does the next year. Looking at this makes me think the Patriots are going to cut Neal after this season.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The breakdown of Neal's contract is interesting:

From Reiss:


The Patriots certainly aren't taking advantage of an uncapped year with this contract. It counts twice as much in two years as it does the next year. Looking at this makes me think the Patriots are going to cut Neal after this season.

Neal can make $3.6M in 2010 and $3.1 in 2011, but if NE cuts him in 2010, he collects $3.1M total and the Pats save $3.6M. Seems like they are planning on him for another two seasons, but should he bring back the old-fashioned OL retirement tradition this year, the Pats have given themselves some savings.

 

[upstater1]

Neal can make $3.6M in 2010 and $3.1 in 2011, but if NE cuts him in 2010, he collects $3.1M total and the Pats save $3.6M. Seems like they are planning on him for another two seasons, but should he bring back the old-fashioned OL retirement tradition this year, the Pats have given themselves some savings.

The thing that concerns me about this structure is that he counts for $2.6m against the cap this year and $4.1m against the cap next year.

Unless they are leaning toward cutting him after this season, then they are doing a disservice to the fans by not structuring their contracts better to take advantage of the uncapped year. If they are doing this with all the recent contracts, then yes I am quite disappointed in the Krafts. This is a minor contract, it is not breaking the team's salary structure (ie. equity between players) so I pay much closer attention to this than the big contracts. If you pay Neal MORE this season than next, you have more cap space next season. That's the logic. Unless you plan on cutting Neal. I could be wrong if other contracts do indeed take advantage of the uncapped year.

The only way that the Patriots could sign free agents who are dumped in June is f they build enough space to keep them in future cap years or else sign them to one year contracts.

So, I don't think this Neal contract is a good sign for the Patriots in taking advantage of the uncapped year.

 

[mgteich]

Kraft is doing a disservice to fans by not structring Neal's contract in a many not acceptable to you. What a pile of crap!
--------------------------

The thing that concerns me about this structure is that he counts for $2.6m against the cap this year and $4.1m against the cap next year.

Unless they are leaning toward cutting him after this season, then they are doing a disservice to the fans by not structuring their contracts better to take advantage of the uncapped year. If they are doing this with all the recent contracts, then yes I am quite disappointed in the Krafts. This is a minor contract, it is not breaking the team's salary structure (ie. equity between players) so I pay much closer attention to this than the big contracts. If you pay Neal MORE this season than next, you have more cap space next season. That's the logic. Unless you plan on cutting Neal. I could be wrong if other contracts do indeed take advantage of the uncapped year.

The only way that the Patriots could sign free agents who are dumped in June is f they build enough space to keep them in future cap years or else sign them to one year contracts.

So, I don't think this Neal contract is a good sign for the Patriots in taking advantage of the uncapped year.

 

[DaBruinz]

The thing that concerns me about this structure is that he counts for $2.6m against the cap this year and $4.1m against the cap next year.

Unless they are leaning toward cutting him after this season, then they are doing a disservice to the fans by not structuring their contracts better to take advantage of the uncapped year. If they are doing this with all the recent contracts, then yes I am quite disappointed in the Krafts. This is a minor contract, it is not breaking the team's salary structure (ie. equity between players) so I pay much closer attention to this than the big contracts. If you pay Neal MORE this season than next, you have more cap space next season. That's the logic. Unless you plan on cutting Neal. I could be wrong if other contracts do indeed take advantage of the uncapped year.

The only way that the Patriots could sign free agents who are dumped in June is f they build enough space to keep them in future cap years or else sign them to one year contracts.

So, I don't think this Neal contract is a good sign for the Patriots in taking advantage of the uncapped year.

First, there is no cap this year.

Second, you don't really support your idea that the Krafts (who have little or nothing to do with the actual player negotiations) are doing a disservice to fans with this contract... One that potentially pays Neal MORE this year than next year.

The number of players who will be cut in june is close to none. There is no need with no salary cap.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The thing that concerns me about this structure is that he counts for $2.6m against the cap this year and $4.1m against the cap next year.

Unless they are leaning toward cutting him after this season, then they are doing a disservice to the fans by not structuring their contracts better to take advantage of the uncapped year. If they are doing this with all the recent contracts, then yes I am quite disappointed in the Krafts. This is a minor contract, it is not breaking the team's salary structure (ie. equity between players) so I pay much closer attention to this than the big contracts. If you pay Neal MORE this season than next, you have more cap space next season. That's the logic. Unless you plan on cutting Neal. I could be wrong if other contracts do indeed take advantage of the uncapped year.

The only way that the Patriots could sign free agents who are dumped in June is f they build enough space to keep them in future cap years or else sign them to one year contracts.

So, I don't think this Neal contract is a good sign for the Patriots in taking advantage of the uncapped year.

As you noted, no cap now - this year is a wash.

For 2011, assuming there is a cap, we first have to presume the NFL makes signing bonuses retroactive to get your numbers - I don't see that, not with the way teams are using this uncapped season to "adjust" their finances. It would be not in their best interest to make a new CBA retroactive.

If there is a 2011 cap, Neal counts $3.1M against it - cheap for a starting Guard - even in your worst case scenario Neal is inexpensive. If he's cut, that's $1.1m of dead money, at worst. The 2009 salary cap was $127,997,000, worst case Neal's $4.1M counts 3.2% against that figure - pretty good for a starter.

If I understand your concern, you were looking for the entire $3M of guaranteed money to be 'dumped' in the uncapped year, which combined with the $1.6M salary/workout bonus puts $4.6M in the uncapped season, leaving $2.1M for the first likely capped season? I know there are more zeros involved here than I would normally play with, but that $1M difference appears insignificant on this scale.

Seems like the team is working off a real budget and is managing the spending accordingly. I ain't no Miguel by a long shot, but this looks like a pretty basic deal to give Neal fair money and not burden the team's budget excessively in either year. :confused2:

 

[emoney_33]

As you noted, no cap now - this year is a wash.

For 2011, assuming there is a cap, we first have to presume the NFL makes signing bonuses retroactive to get your numbers - I don't see that, not with the way teams are using this uncapped season to "adjust" their finances. It would be not in their best interest to make a new CBA retroactive.

If there is a 2011 cap, Neal counts $3.1M against it - cheap for a starting Guard - even in your worst case scenario Neal is inexpensive. If he's cut, that's $1.1m of dead money, at worst. The 2009 salary cap was $127,997,000, worst case Neal's $4.1M counts 3.2% against that figure - pretty good for a starter.

If I understand your concern, you were looking for the entire $3M of guaranteed money to be 'dumped' in the uncapped year, which combined with the $1.6M salary/workout bonus puts $4.6M in the uncapped season, leaving $2.1M for the first likely capped season? I know there are more zeros involved here than I would normally play with, but that $1M difference appears insignificant on this scale.

Seems like the team is working off a real budget and is managing the spending accordingly. I ain't no Miguel by a long shot, but this looks like a pretty basic deal to give Neal fair money and not burden the team's budget excessively in either year. :confused2:

One thing I think is worth mentioning in the uncapped year is that it would be a bad business decision for teams to go wild over the cap. If owners start spending way over the cap, it gives the players union a bargaining chip for higher player revenues. I'm not sure why anyone was ever expecting the no cap year to be used by owners to lose money in the long term. It's more likely teams will try to get under the cap floor than go over the cap ceiling.

 

[upstater1]

Kraft is doing a disservice to fans by not structring Neal's contract in a many not acceptable to you. What a pile of crap!
--------------------------

If other teams are taking advantage of the uncapped year, and Kraft isn't then the Patriots are at a disadvantage. Pretty simple.

 

[emoney_33]

If other teams are taking advantage of the uncapped year, and Kraft isn't then the Patriots are at a disadvantage. Pretty simple.

If every player on every team except the Pats turned into a pro-bowler, the Patriots would be at a disadvantage.

 

[upstater1]

First, there is no cap this year.

Right, that's the whole point of my post. If more money is pushed into this year, then next year's cap hit will be lessened.

Second, you don't really support your idea that the Krafts (who have little or nothing to do with the actual player negotiations) are doing a disservice to fans with this contract... One that potentially pays Neal MORE this year than next year.

I support Belichick and Kraft in terms of valuing players however they wish. That's beyond my abilities. And I'm not talkng about Kraft taking part in player negotiations. I'm talking about organizational strategy. This year is uncapped. The way to take advantage of an uncapped year is to push more money into this year. And even if Neal gets more money this year than next year, he will still count more against the cap next year than this year going by the rules now currently in place. That's the concern.

The number of players who will be cut in june is close to none. There is no need with no salary cap.[/QUOTE]

 

[upstater1]

As you noted, no cap now - this year is a wash.

For 2011, assuming there is a cap, we first have to presume the NFL makes signing bonuses retroactive to get your numbers - I don't see that, not with the way teams are using this uncapped season to "adjust" their finances. It would be not in their best interest to make a new CBA retroactive.

If there is a 2011 cap, Neal counts $3.1M against it - cheap for a starting Guard - even in your worst case scenario Neal is inexpensive. If he's cut, that's $1.1m of dead money, at worst. The 2009 salary cap was $127,997,000, worst case Neal's $4.1M counts 3.2% against that figure - pretty good for a starter.

If I understand your concern, you were looking for the entire $3M of guaranteed money to be 'dumped' in the uncapped year, which combined with the $1.6M salary/workout bonus puts $4.6M in the uncapped season, leaving $2.1M for the first likely capped season? I know there are more zeros involved here than I would normally play with, but that $1M difference appears insignificant on this scale.

Seems like the team is working off a real budget and is managing the spending accordingly. I ain't no Miguel by a long shot, but this looks like a pretty basic deal to give Neal fair money and not burden the team's budget excessively in either year. :confused2:

Yes, you've understood my concerns perfectly. And, in fact, if the signing bonuses made this year are NOT carried into future years, then that's a huge bonus that puts the Patriots WAY ahead of a lot of teams, especially if we sign Brady to a mega deal.

something tells me though that this will not be the case, and the signing bonuses will be spread out as they are now.

Again, I wasn't so concerned about Neal's deal as I am with the structure of all the contracts. If all the contracts look like Neal's deal and the signing bonuses are spread into future cap years, then the Patriots are not taking advantage of the uncapped year.

 

[upstater1]

If every player on every team except the Pats turned into a pro-bowler, the Patriots would be at a disadvantage.

How do you live with yourself?