I guess Bill is going to coach them up...

[JackBauer]

Moss
Welker (upon return)
Edelman
Tate
Light
Mankins
Koppen
Neal
Vollmer
Maroney/Morris/Taylor/Faulk

10 of the 11 spots on offense are on course to be identical to last year.


Warren
Wilfork
Wright
Mayo
Guyton
Bodden
Springs/Butler
Sanders/McGowan/Chung
Meriweather
TBC

10 of the 11 spots on defense are on course to be almost identical (Green is missing and he split time with Wright) to last year.

The jobs that look to be currently open are:

RB
TE1
TE2
RDE
OLB
WR3
P

That's it. You could toss in ILB, which I've been stating, but I'm assured by other posters that Guyton is a lock for his spot, as is TBC on the outside. So, when a team only has 2 positional openings, and only has competition at 6 positions, plus punter, it's a pretty fair claim to say that the difference is going to be "coaching them up" and "essentially the same team", isn't it?

No, because some of those who you currently have penciled in as starters are upgradable, and I suspect some of them will be replaced either through FA or the draft. Besides, having new players at (at least) seven different positions, in and of itself, belies the claim that this team will be "essentially the same team."

Saying that the positions are "on course" toward anything at this point is only useful to a limited degree, since we have no idea what designs BB & Co. have in mind for FA. If, prior to the draft, your list looks pretty much identical, at that point it would be prudent to start worrying.

 

[mcmurtry86]

My 5 year old can piece together a 100 piece puzzle. Thank you.

Gotta say, having a five year old and an avatar with the "shocker" is quite the combination

 

[jmt57]

Re: I guess Bill is going to coach them up..

the pats are likely going to hunt down players who have been cut between now and training camp......between that and the draft is where you will see the attempts to fill holes.....

I do believe the pats could have helped themselves with one or more of the big names (dansby, peppers) but as I mentioned at the start of FA, it is understandable that in the face of no CBA, the potential for a lockout, and that the new CBA will have a lower cap, that it is prudent planning hard at work....or at least that's what I want to believe.

Yeah, I agree. I think some folks are looking at what free agents are available at this moment and assuming that list will only grow smaller day by day. There will be many more players cut between now and the start of training camp, and hundreds more during August. Although on one hand teams don't have to worry about cap ramifications for cutting a player before June 1, more importantly they are not in need of cutting players to clear cap space to sign somebody else. My guess is there will be a lot more activity by all NFL teams later in the offseason this year than in the past. Also at that point the owners may have a slightly better idea of where negotiations stand and whether or not there will be a lockout in 2011.

 

[mcmurtry86]

No, because some of those who you currently have penciled in as starters are upgradable, and I suspect some of them will be replaced either through FA or the draft. Besides, having new players at (at least) seven different positions, in and of itself, belies the claim that this team will be "essentially the same team."

Saying that the positions are "on course" toward anything at this point is only useful to a limited degree, since we have no idea what designs BB & Co. have in mind for FA. If, prior to the draft, your list looks pretty much identical, at that point it would be prudent to start worrying.

Offseason improvements can only be made in the first 2 weeks of March. (ignore Moss and Harrison, Vrabel too since he was technically the 3rd week)

 

[Deus Irae]

No, because some of those who you currently have penciled in as starters are upgradable, and I suspect some of them will be replaced either through FA or the draft. Besides, having new players at (at least) seven different positions, in and of itself, belies the claim that this team will be "essentially the same team."

Saying that the positions are "on course" toward anything at this point is only useful to a limited degree, since we have no idea what designs BB & Co. have in mind for FA. If, prior to the draft, your list looks pretty much identical, at that point it would be prudent to start worrying.

With a 53 man roster, replacing only 2 starters and a handful of back row players is having "essentially the same team" in the minds of most people, I'd wager. This is a year with a limited UFA class, due to the CBA situation, and that has limited the number of talented players available on the market, which means that the Patriots are more likely to be limited to lower end castoffs and draft picks. Then, when looking to the draft for replacement players, players don't become starters as rookies. So, really, your gripe is nothing more than semantics and assumptions, unless you're going to assert that the Patriots are going to go hog wild with regards to making trades (which would be another assumption in itself).

Under the present circumstances, how is your argument any better than what those you're criticizing are doing? Also, given the lack of reportable information currently available on the Patriots, what would you suggest people post about, since they can't post their current opinions about the team and its future?

 

[Rob0729]

Will there be June cuts this year? I thought with no salary cap that it didn't make a difference when the player is cut.

There might not be June cuts, but there will be post draft cuts. There are a lot of quality overpriced veterans that may become expendable if their team finds their replacement in the draft. Look at the Pats' roster. Guys like Springs, Morris, Fred Taylor, Adalius Thomas, or even potentially Matt Light or Dan Koppen (although the last two may be too valuable to cut) who could become very expendable after the draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

Offseason improvements can only be made in the first 2 weeks of March. (ignore Moss and Harrison, Vrabel too since he was technically the 3rd week)

This should make for an interesting discussion.......

Kindly list all the great FA signings* that the Patriots have made beyond the first, let's say, 3 weeks, of free agency in each year. Let's set the cutoff year as 2005.





*Let's consider "great FA signings" as players we can all agree had major positive impact upon the team, either in terms of wins or the way teams were forced to play the Patriots.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

well after a few weeks and most of the top 2 tiers of FA's gone, we really are the exact same team as last year minus our TE's. The good news we havent gotten any worse, the bad news we havent gotten any better.

Not sure what makes the Coaching staff and personal folks think we can be any more competitive with essentially the same team. I would also have to say we got a bit worse since welker is likely going to be out for part of the season.

The draft is all well and good but Im just not a huge fan of Rookies and the impact they make first season. Sure there are exceptions but as of now Im not sure what our off season plan really is or was. Maybe it was BB wanting to keep the same folks in the same system for another year rather than introducing overpriced FAs that dont fit or dont get the scheme quick enough. I dont like over paying for risk either but I think they should have pulled the trigger for a decent WR given our current situation.

Of course trades are always a possibility so that could be a wildcard here. If we finished last year as a B or Bplus team Im not sure what we are now.

I'll tell you why we will be vastly improved in 2010 vs. 2009. Because Tom Brady will have an entire offseason of working with whatever BB comes up with as far as receivers and TE's. Brady is one of those guys that uses mini camp and passing camps to get his timing down and get in rythem with his receivers.
With an entire offseason to work with new and old guys, he should be vastly improved vs. that hollow shell of a Brady that we saw last year. If Brady makes two or three more plays per quarter, that should equate to the offense being on the field more and it should give the defense the opportunity to play with the lead more.

Plan B involves kipnapping that horribly awful OC/QB coach that we have and sending him on a 6 six month cruise through China starting mid July. He has to be the absolute bottom of the barrel WORST OC in all of high school/college/ Canadien and American pro football. He is so bad, he makes the Raiders OC look like gold.

 

[JackBauer]

With a 53 man roster, replacing only 2 starters and a handful of back row players is having "essentially the same team" in the minds of most people, I'd wager.

So we are definitely replacing our TE and P.

I guess I would disagree with your assertion that the other positions listed are "back row players." Particularly, OLB, WR3, and RDE. These are other players I deem in need of replacement. If they are not replaced, then BB will have failed in the offseason. But I'd rather see how it shakes out before wrapping myself around the axle.

Then, when looking to the draft for replacement players, players don't become starters as rookies.

They don't?

So, really, your gripe is nothing more than semantics and assumptions, unless you're going to assert that the Patriots are going to go hog wild with regards to making trades (which would be another assumption in itself).

No. My gripe is the constant whining about the future when there's no way to predict how it will unfold.

Under the present circumstances, how is your argument any better than what those you're criticizing are doing? Also, given the lack of reportable information currently available on the Patriots, what would you suggest people post about, since they can't post their current opinions about the team and its future?

You're right. It could be the issue that one side of the argument defies logic, while the other does not. But other than that small difference ...

 

[condon84]

Gotta say, having a five year old and an avatar with the "shocker" is quite the combination

Even when I get older and have grandkids, my sense of humor's never going to change. No matter how much my wife rolls her eyes.

BTW, I'm glad someone else knows what the "shocker" image is

 

[JackBauer]

Even when I get older and have grandkids, my sense of humor's never going to change. No matter how much my wife rolls her eyes.

BTW, I'm glad someone else knows what the "shocker" image is

Oh, I think quite a few around here are aware of the shockah.

 

[SyN65]

So far this team is worse than it was last year.

We lost Welker till probably the mid point of next season.

We have no TE's.

 

[Deus Irae]

So we are definitely replacing our TE and P.

I guess I would disagree with your assertion that the other positions listed are "back row players." Particularly, OLB, WR3, and RDE.

You're making the assumption that those brought in will be superior players. As I said, semantics and assumptions....

For the record, I'm not posting in disagreement with your assumptions. I'm merely pointing out that you're doing precisely what those you are criticizing are doing.

They don't?

New England drafted about a dozen players last year. Not counting special teams, only 1, Vollmer, was a starter as a rookie, at the end of the year. In 2008, it was Mayo and, by default (Thanks for playing, Deltha!), Wilhite. In 2007, it was 0. In 2006, it was 0. That's a grand total of 3 rookies as starters in 4 seasons.

No. My gripe is the constant whining about the future when there's no way to predict how it will unfold.

No, let's be honest here. Your gripe is that people are looking to the future with a negative light. If the same people were singing songs and talking about this team winning the Super Bowl in 2011, you'd have no problem.

You're right. It could be the issue that one side of the argument defies logic, while the other does not. But other than that small difference ...

Neither side is more logical. Both are basing their position on assumptions. Both know that their assumptions will not be both 100% accurate and 100% relevant.

Welcome to the NFL off season.

 

[condon84]

So far this team is worse than it was last year.

We lost Welker till probably the mid point of last season.

We have no TE's.

Our season hinges on Brady. If he goes back to his clutch self, our offense will score points and give us an opportunity to win games.

I'm also banking on Mayo and Guyton to improve from last year and for BB to scheme a better pass rush.

At this point, that's all we can hope for.

 

[JackBauer]

You're making the assumption that those brought in will be superior players. As I said, semantics and assumptions....

For the record, I'm not posting in disagreement with your assumptions. I'm merely pointing out that you're doing precisely what those you are criticizing are doing.



New England drafted about a dozen players last year. Not counting special teams, only 1, Vollmer, was a starter as a rookie, at the end of the year. In 2008, it was Mayo and, by default (Thanks for playing, Deltha!), Wilhite. In 2007, it was 0. In 2006, it was 0. That's a grand total of 3 rookies as starters in 4 seasons.



No, let's be honest here. Your gripe is that people are looking to the future with a negative light. If the same people were singing songs and talking about this team winning the Super Bowl in 2011, you'd have no problem.



Neither side is more logical. Both are basing their position on assumptions. Both know that their assumptions will not be both 100% accurate and 100% relevant.

Welcome to the NFL off season.

No, I think making any assumptions about the future is a useless exercise. I'm not claiming that BB will be successful in FA and that his draft picks will be able to start off the bat and make a positive impact. I'm just saying these things can only really be evaluated in real time and/or in hindsight.

But perhaps I am being too harsh and you're right that it is a long offseason, so I guess it's only to be expected.

As for 2006, aren't you forgetting about the Ghost?

 

[JackBauer]

Our season hinges on Brady. If he goes back to his clutch self, our offense will score points and give us an opportunity to win games.

I'm also banking on Mayo and Guyton to improve from last year and for BB to scheme a better pass rush.

At this point, that's all we can hope for.

Well if we're taking the optimistic view of things, since every single starter on the defense is under 30 years of age, we can hope for improvement from a number of players.

 

[condon84]

Well if we're taking the optimistic view of things, since every single starter on the defense is under 30 years of age, we can hope for improvement from a number of players.

Main reason I pointed out Guyton and Mayo is because I thought their play regressed compared to the year before. Whereas Wilhite, Wright, Merriweather improved their play, Guyton and Mayo's suffered.

 

[Rob0729]

Main reason I pointed out Guyton and Mayo is because I thought their play regressed compared to the year before. Whereas Wilhite, Wright, Merriweather improved their play, Guyton and Mayo's suffered.

Mayo did suffer a sever MCL injury and returned possibly quicker than he should have. A similiar MCL injury kept Anthony Gonzalez (Colts) out the entire season. Mayo's regression could have been injury related. In fact, it is likely it was.

 

[AGHPatsfan]

Main reason I pointed out Guyton and Mayo is because I thought their play regressed compared to the year before. Whereas Wilhite, Wright, Merriweather improved their play, Guyton and Mayo's suffered.

I'm not ready to hold last year against Mayo, I believe his injury had much to do with his play

 

[AGHPatsfan]

So far this team is worse than it was last year.

We lost Welker till probably the mid point of last season.

We have no TE's.

And we have no game scheduled for tomorrow