What's the worst Pats team since 2004?

[BradyManny]

That 2005 team may have struggled at times during the season, but it still had a pretty solid offense and was coming around. Let's put it this way, we were still all surprised when they lost to Denver (Brady's first playoff loss) and it took a couple whacky plays and some horrendous officiating to even accomplish that. I wouldn't have been surprised if that 2005 team had ended up winning the SB had it gotten by the pesky Broncos, considering the talent & performance of the other elite teams (Pittsburgh, Indy, Seattle, etc.) was not nearly what it has been at other points in this decade. It was a down year for the NFL, and that 05 team would've done damage if it could've won in Denver.

 

[Deus Irae]

Really? At least in 2005 they could beat their division to make the playoffs.

In 2005, they made the playoffs at 10-6. In 2008, they missed the playoffs at 11-5. You're now elevating the 2005 team because the other teams in division didn't have as strong a record in one year as the other.

That's just nonsensical.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

I would say 2008. They really weren't that good especially without Brady. A weak arsed schedule. Take that team and give them this year's schedule and they might be 5-6 right now or worse.

That's exactly how I feel. No way we beat the Falcons or Ravens with last years defense

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting, Deus....I view 09 better than 08. What is your reasoning?

1.) Cassel come playoff time (which was the parameter given by the OP) was playing better than Brady is now.

2.) The O-line was much better at the end of last season than it has been this year.

3.) WR1 and WR3 were both stronger last year.

4.) Last year's D-line was much better than what's been out there this year.

5.) Last year's linebacking was better than this years, and that's a sad commentary on what we've seen to date this season.

6.) The O.C. position was being handled much more skillfully last season.

2009 has better safety play, better play at the #2 and #3 CB spots, and Taylor is better than Jordan as the #2/#3 RB. Other than that, when I break it down, it's pretty much even or 2008 over 2009 to me so far.

 

[BradyManny]

1.) Cassel come playoff time (which was the parameter given by the OP) was playing better than Brady is now.

Would you have said this before Monday? Hell no. Cassel was playing quite well against poor opposition and struggled against the one above average D he played, Pittsburgh. Brady was in the talk for MVP until the Saints game. Don't let one game fool you, he's had +90 passer rating in all but 3 games this year.

2.) The O-line was much better at the end of last season than it has been this year.

Again, that is strictly in reference to the Saints game. The OL was playing at a very high level up until then.

3.) WR1 and WR3 were both stronger last year.

How do you figure on WR1? Moss is having a much better season this year than last. I agree about WR3 - and our lack of depth there is our Achilles heel right now, and has been the only thing stopping this offense this season.

Again, WR3, sure - but to argue Brady isn't an upgrade over Cassel's season last year, that the OL is playing worse, and that Moss hasn't had a better season than last year? That's all based on one bad game, which is not a good sample size.

 

[Deus Irae]

Would you have said this before Monday? Hell no. Cassel was playing quite well against poor opposition and struggled against the one above average D he played, Pittsburgh. Brady was in the talk for MVP until the Saints game. Don't let one game fool you, he's had +90 passer rating in all but 3 games this year.

Of course I would have said it before Monday. Monday was just one game.

Again, that is strictly in reference to the Saints game. The OL was playing at a very high level up until then.

The O-line has been crap for most of the season. This has been most noticeable with regards to inconsistency in the running game.

How do you figure on WR1? Moss is having a much better season this year than last. I agree about WR3 - and our lack of depth there is our Achilles heel right now, and has been the only thing stopping this offense this season.

I think that Moss has clearly lost a step, and I think it's allowing teams to defend him more easily. As for the notion that depth has been the Achilles heel, you're welcome to your opinion. I'd say that the front line talent has failed rather spectacularly on its own on multiple occasions.

Again, WR3, sure - but to argue Brady isn't an upgrade over Cassel's season last year, that the OL is playing worse, and that Moss hasn't had a better season than last year? That's all based on one bad game, which is not a good sample size.

Again, it's not about one game. I've been noting this stuff all season long.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Should be which team pissed you off the most since 04.

 

[PatsFan24]

who picked 2007??

 

[patriots pam]

Should be which team pissed you off the most since 04.

That's easy! The Broncos, the Colts, and the Giants, to name a few.

 

[patsinthesnow]

In order with explanations:

2006- A team with an average defense and NO receiving corps whatsoever. This would have gone down as one of the best cinderellas if we beat the colts. We should have NEVER got by SD, but we pulled it off.

2008- No Brady, worst secondary of the decade IMO.

2005- The team went from below average to a threat in the playoffs. A horrible defense became a good defense towards the end of the season.

2009- Shaky start, Solid Defense, Great offense that has no creativity.

2007- This crew just pisses me off.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I voted for 2007 because even though that wasn't the worst team statistically, after the-game-that-shall-not-be-mentioned, I have NEVER felt as bad as that after a sporting event and doubt I ever will again. The way I felt after that game has actually given me perspective last year and this year to remember it's only a game and there are more important things in life than football (though few are as enjoyable when your team is winning).

I started reading this thread just to see if I could figure out who voted 2007, never in my wildest dreams thinking someone would actually admit it...

 

[Patjew]

How a team is playing at the end of the year says alot to me. I wouldn't say 2005 is the worst just because by the end of the year that team was playing very well. The D played great in the playoffs, but then Brady let them down (for the first time) in Denver, otherwise they had a good chance to 3-peat. Also, that team easily could have been 11-5 if they had the starters play in week 17.

I would say that 2006 was the worst, followed by 2009 (so far).

 

[Disco Volante]

We sure are lucky to have 11-5 & 10-6 playoff winning teams to be considered our worst in the last 5 years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How a team is playing at the end of the year says alot to me. I wouldn't say 2005 is the worst just because by the end of the year that team was playing very well. The D played great in the playoffs, but then Brady let them down (for the first time) in Denver, otherwise they had a good chance to 3-peat. Also, that team easily could have been 11-5 if they had the starters play in week 17.

I would say that 2006 was the worst, followed by 2009 (so far).

Not sure that it's fair to make the 2006 team the worst. Besides the SB wins and the conference championship wins, if there was one game that defined the guts of that team in this era, it was the div win vs San Diego-arguably the best team (besides the Colts) in the NFL that year.

That Denver game still sticks in my craw though. A BS PI penalty and 3 fumbles gave DEN a short field 3 times that game. Brady was not great that game, but was not that bad (except for the Bailey INT)

 

[eagle eye]

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I'd say 2008. It was eventually fun watching football without the high expectations once Brady went down, fun watching the growth of Cassel and the improvement of the team over the season. Still, they feasted on some horrendous opponents (the NFCW and the bottom 3 of the AFCW) and had clear reminders early vs. San Diego and late vs. Pittsburgh that they would have been playoff fodder.

2005 comes in 2nd and was a tale of two seasons. The first half was a team with a D so bad that only Brady's heroics in Atlanta and Pittsburgh were the difference between 3-3 and 1-5. In the KC game, the D came around and was playing some good ball the rest of the way. Then it all blew up in the Pats's house-of-horrors in Denver with 5 turnovers, bad PI calls and short fields galore for Denver.

2006 was oh-so-close to winning a SB after sneaking past San Diego (that 2nd half was probably one of the worst coaching jobs by Marty, going Anti-Martyball when going Martyball would have easily put SD in the AFCCG). If the Pats didn't drop like flies health-wise in the AFCCG, they would have faced Rex Grossman (drooooool) for the Lombardi.

2007 obviously bottoms out the list, despite the frustrating end and a final game I still cannot bring myself to watch clips of on Youtube or change the channel if highlights (lowlights) are shown on TV.

Edit: 2009 gets an "incomplete", but if the poor road woes continue (both coaching-wise and execution-wise), it will probably fall in at #3. Lots of time before passing final judgement, though.

Regards,
Chris

 

[RobertWeathers]

2007 obviously bottoms out the list, despite the frustrating end and a final game I still cannot bring myself to watch clips of on Youtube or change the channel if highlights (lowlights) are shown on TV.

"It was the best of times...........It was the worst of times".

 

[pats1]

I'd say 2008. It was eventually fun watching football without the high expectations once Brady went down, fun watching the growth of Cassel and the improvement of the team over the season. Still, they feasted on some horrendous opponents (the NFCW and the bottom 3 of the AFCW) and had clear reminders early vs. San Diego and late vs. Pittsburgh that they would have been playoff fodder.

2005 comes in 2nd and was a tale of two seasons. The first half was a team with a D so bad that only Brady's heroics in Atlanta and Pittsburgh were the difference between 3-3 and 1-5. In the KC game, the D came around and was playing some good ball the rest of the way. Then it all blew up in the Pats's house-of-horrors in Denver with 5 turnovers, bad PI calls and short fields galore for Denver.

2006 was oh-so-close to winning a SB after sneaking past San Diego (that 2nd half was probably one of the worst coaching jobs by Marty, going Anti-Martyball when going Martyball would have easily put SD in the AFCCG). If the Pats didn't drop like flies health-wise in the AFCCG, they would have faced Rex Grossman (drooooool) for the Lombardi.

2007 obviously bottoms out the list, despite the frustrating end and a final game I still cannot bring myself to watch clips of on Youtube or change the channel if highlights (lowlights) are shown on TV.

Edit: 2009 gets an "incomplete", but if the poor road woes continue (both coaching-wise and execution-wise), it will probably fall in at #3. Lots of time before passing final judgement, though.

Regards,
Chris

The 2006 team remains, for me, one of the most curious of the BB era. They went into camp with the following wide receivers, given that Branch was on DNR and Jackson and Childress were on PUP: Troy Brown, Reche Caldwell, John Stone, Rich Musinski, Matt Shelton, Michael McGrew, Keron Henry, and Erik Davis. Still, they had a pretty good 1-2 punch in Dillon and Maroney, and two productive TEs in Graham and Watson. Their defense was one of the best in the NFL, helped in large part by the emergence of Samuel and a deep DL.

They lost to the Dolphins 21-0 in December, but then went on to shock the 14-2 Chargers on the road in one of the better Pats games in recent memory. They go ahead 21-0 in the AFCCG, and then collapse in the second half amid heat, cramps, and a large dose of Manning. Just really an odd season.

...The same can probably be said for the Red Sox of that year, collapsing with the 5-game sweep to the Yankees ("the Boston massacre") and missing out on the playoffs. Then in 2007, both teams were the best in their respective leagues (with the Celtics joining) and then all three teams fell back to Earth in 2008. It's strange, really.

 

[NEPatriot]

We had a 11-5 record with Cassel last year.
Is it the worst nightmare when we have a 11-5 with TB this year? Who would think of that???

 

[Patjew]

Not sure that it's fair to make the 2006 team the worst. Besides the SB wins and the conference championship wins, if there was one game that defined the guts of that team in this era, it was the div win vs San Diego-arguably the best team (besides the Colts) in the NFL that year.

That Denver game still sticks in my craw though. A BS PI penalty and 3 fumbles gave DEN a short field 3 times that game. Brady was not great that game, but was not that bad (except for the Bailey INT)

Good points all, but I just think the 2006 offense with no solid WRs and an expiring Dillon was the weakest team. Sure, that win over SD was a classic.