Headset question

[ivanvamp]

Does anyone know the actual rule for the radio communication with the offensive and defensive captains during play? I think the QB has his headset shut off with 15 seconds left on the play clock, something like that. But what if a team like the Colts (or anyone in a no-huddle) rushes to the line with, say, 30 seconds on the play clock.

They line up, the defense lines up, and the coaches up in the booth (who are relaying the signals anyway) get a birds' eye look at their defensive alignment. They could then say, ok, Peyton (or Tom or Ben or whomever), looks like they're in such-and-such formation, and if you remember the film, they'll probably be blitzing off the left edge on this. So change the protection. Oh, and look at their left corner, playing such-and-such technique...Wes will be open on a slant.

That could take less than 10 seconds to say (quicker if they have their own terminology)...then, the mikes are cut off with 15 left on the play clock, and Peyton or Brady has enough time to make the necessary adjustments.

Is this legal?

 

[pats1]

Does anyone know the actual rule for the radio communication with the offensive and defensive captains during play? I think the QB has his headset shut off with 15 seconds left on the play clock, something like that. But what if a team like the Colts (or anyone in a no-huddle) rushes to the line with, say, 30 seconds on the play clock.

They line up, the defense lines up, and the coaches up in the booth (who are relaying the signals anyway) get a birds' eye look at their defensive alignment. They could then say, ok, Peyton (or Tom or Ben or whomever), looks like they're in such-and-such formation, and if you remember the film, they'll probably be blitzing off the left edge on this. So change the protection. Oh, and look at their left corner, playing such-and-such technique...Wes will be open on a slant.

That could take less than 10 seconds to say (quicker if they have their own terminology)...then, the mikes are cut off with 15 left on the play clock, and Peyton or Brady has enough time to make the necessary adjustments.

Is this legal?

Yes, they can say whatever they want in the radio. When defensive radios were introduced last year, some believed they would use it with Mayo to coach him up during the game. Turns out he didn't even need that...

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Does anyone know the actual rule for the radio communication with the offensive and defensive captains during play? I think the QB has his headset shut off with 15 seconds left on the play clock, something like that. But what if a team like the Colts (or anyone in a no-huddle) rushes to the line with, say, 30 seconds on the play clock.

They line up, the defense lines up, and the coaches up in the booth (who are relaying the signals anyway) get a birds' eye look at their defensive alignment. They could then say, ok, Peyton (or Tom or Ben or whomever), looks like they're in such-and-such formation, and if you remember the film, they'll probably be blitzing off the left edge on this. So change the protection. Oh, and look at their left corner, playing such-and-such technique...Wes will be open on a slant.

That could take less than 10 seconds to say (quicker if they have their own terminology)...then, the mikes are cut off with 15 left on the play clock, and Peyton or Brady has enough time to make the necessary adjustments.

Is this legal?

My assumption is that QB's like Brady and Peyton already can tell all that kind of stuff on their own when they break the huddle.

 

[ivanvamp]

Yes, they can say whatever they want in the radio. When defensive radios were introduced last year, some believed they would use it with Mayo to coach him up during the game. Turns out he didn't even need that...

Ok, wow. So it makes very good strategy to be in the no-huddle. You can then simply be in direct communication with the guys in the booth up until you basically snap the ball. It's like having the coach stand right next to you with all his charts and overhead pictures in his hand, giving you very direct guidance.

Seems like that kind of violates the spirit of things, doesn't it?

 

[pats1]

Ok, wow. So it makes very good strategy to be in the no-huddle. You can then simply be in direct communication with the guys in the booth up until you basically snap the ball. It's like having the coach stand right next to you with all his charts and overhead pictures in his hand, giving you very direct guidance.

Seems like that kind of violates the spirit of things, doesn't it?

I think that's become a given in modern football. Some would say having the instant printouts of formations on the sidelines violates the spirit of things. (But of course, taping signals and using them later is an egregious violation of professional ethics and sportsmanship...)

 

[Snarf]

I've got another headset question: how is the communication protected? Is it done using encryption or something to stop people in the stands/opposing team from listening in?

 

[pats1]

I've got another headset question: how is the communication protected? Is it done using encryption or something to stop people in the stands/opposing team from listening in?

I would assume so, although I don't know for sure. I would think the bigger concern would be the other team picking it up.

 

[Patspsycho]

Ok, wow. So it makes very good strategy to be in the no-huddle. You can then simply be in direct communication with the guys in the booth up until you basically snap the ball. It's like having the coach stand right next to you with all his charts and overhead pictures in his hand, giving you very direct guidance.

Seems like that kind of violates the spirit of things, doesn't it?

Quite a few teams would argue for this because their QB's aren't like Manning or Brady, both those QB's are one of a kind because they can handle a lot of information processing with the time clock ticking away without choking or experiencing the "sensory overload" that fighter jet pilots sometimes experience during a critical moment because their consoles are intricate.

There was an interesting article I read a while back, I can't remember where- but it put Brady and Manning in a category called "check" and most every other QB's in the "call" category where they get a call in the huddle and basically execute that, whereas Brady and Manning get a specific part of the route tree and are given the wherewithal to modify it, or audible if necessary. This is one reason the Pats playbook is so hard to follow because so many parts are interchangeable or adjustable, dictated by the coverage Brady sees out there.

Also, I don't think you should overvalue the "charts and pictures" factor because there's only so much you can do in 40 seconds, whether you're up in the press box or down on the field.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Strongly recommend reading a book called "How We Decide".

Along with the fascinating real examples of how many professionals, including pilots, thought during crucial times, it also uses TB as an example of what he did during the final two minutes of SB 01. Excellent breakdown of his mind would have processed the quick-changing plays and how he would have come to a decision as the seconds were slipping past.

 

[Patspsycho]

Strongly recommend reading a book called "How We Decide".

Along with the fascinating real examples of how many professionals, including pilots, thought during crucial times, it also uses TB as an example of what he did during the final two minutes of SB 01. Excellent breakdown of his mind would have processed the quick-changing plays and how he would have come to a decision as the seconds were slipping past.

Is that the book by Jonah Lehrer?

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

I've got another headset question: how is the communication protected? Is it done using encryption or something to stop people in the stands/opposing team from listening in?

designated backup player will also have a "live" helmet stored in the container in case of injury to the primary player, along with two spare battery packs. The system costs $28,000 per team.

There are 268 million different military-grade encryption codes protecting the frequencies.

"You never say never," Anderson says. "But we think it's virtually impossible to tamper with."

A league-appointed monitor will stand sentinel on each sideline over the dual backup helmets stored in a secure, 3-by-4-foot trunk off limits to players coaches and club personnel.

Can you hear me now? Radio calls in NFL defenders' helmets - USATODAY.com

Hope that helps.

 

[mystrymaster]

Quite a few teams would argue for this because their QB's aren't like Manning or Brady, both those QB's are one of a kind because they can handle a lot of information processing with the time clock ticking away without choking or experiencing the "sensory overload" that fighter jet pilots sometimes experience during a critical moment because their consoles are intricate.

There was an interesting article I read a while back, I can't remember where- but it put Brady and Manning in a category called "check" and most every other QB's in the "call" category where they get a call in the huddle and basically execute that, whereas Brady and Manning get a specific part of the route tree and are given the wherewithal to modify it, or audible if necessary. This is one reason the Pats playbook is so hard to follow because so many parts are interchangeable or adjustable, dictated by the coverage Brady sees out there.

Also, I don't think you should overvalue the "charts and pictures" factor because there's only so much you can do in 40 seconds, whether you're up in the press box or down on the field.

I read that article as well. It also seems like more and more teams are giving more responsability to their quarterbacks and we are getting back to the age of quarterbacks actually calling games again.

 

[mystrymaster]

Can you hear me now? Radio calls in NFL defenders' helmets - USATODAY.com

Hope that helps.

Good article thanks.

 

[jmt57]

Does anyone know the actual rule for the radio communication with the offensive and defensive captains during play? I think the QB has his headset shut off with 15 seconds left on the play clock, something like that. But what if a team like the Colts (or anyone in a no-huddle) rushes to the line with, say, 30 seconds on the play clock.

They line up, the defense lines up, and the coaches up in the booth (who are relaying the signals anyway) get a birds' eye look at their defensive alignment. They could then say, ok, Peyton (or Tom or Ben or whomever), looks like they're in such-and-such formation, and if you remember the film, they'll probably be blitzing off the left edge on this. So change the protection. Oh, and look at their left corner, playing such-and-such technique...Wes will be open on a slant.

That could take less than 10 seconds to say (quicker if they have their own terminology)...then, the mikes are cut off with 15 left on the play clock, and Peyton or Brady has enough time to make the necessary adjustments.

Is this legal?

I can't say with absolute certainty, but I thought I recall reading that the radio cutoff was to be either the 15-second mark, or when the offense broke the huddle - in order to avoid the scenario above.


EDIT: It is indeed either the 15-second mark or snap of the ball - and not when the offense breaks the huddle. Since that is the case I'm a bit surprised teams haven't tinkered with getting a play in very quickly just so they could exploit that window of opportunity where a coach could talk directly to his QB while he was under center.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d809f61c6&template=with-video&confirm=true

 

[mystrymaster]

I can't say with absolute certainty, but I thought I recall reading that the radio cutoff was to be either the 15-second mark, or when the offense broke the huddle - in order to avoid the scenario above.

I think it has to be time based because then you wouldn't see Peyton covering his ears while the team is lined up if it was huddle based.

 

[Pats726]

I thought this discussion was interesting..but I also thought an article by Mike Sando from the liegate era..is interesting in that it he brings up the fact that some teams get around this 15 seconds..and that the league knows that some teams do that.

Last 15 seconds should be quiet time - NFL - ESPN

One might need to ask where are the Peter Kings of the world who thought spygate was a mortal sin and yet..on this, the man is silent..Where's the outrage Mr King? Why not a WORD about this??

From the article....

"If you've got a sharp guy, then you can beat it," a longtime offensive assistant coach said.
Several coaches and players contacted for this story said they have never witnessed attempts to work around the 15-second cutoff. A few others, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said they found out about such shenanigans from assistant coaches who had left offending teams.

None of these coaches implicated the Patriots.

There are at least four ways to bypass the cutoff system, sources said.

A team could reprogram its radio system to remove the cutoff official from the equation, sending signals directly from the coach's headset to the quarterback's helmet. It could modify the equipment in the booth to achieve the same end. It could install a separate communications system, allowing another coach or quarterback to provide last-second updates. Or, a team could interfere with wires between the sideline and the press box.

The cutoff official, seated near the game-clock and play-clock operators, would not know the difference. But if a random check revealed cheating, commissioner Roger Goodell would presumably come down hard, particularly in the current climate.



That was written over two years ago... and I do have to wonder why this has not been looked into...KNOWN for years and yet.some so called cheating deserves heavy penalties whil others get away with it.

 

[jmt57]

I think it has to be time based because then you wouldn't see Peyton covering his ears while the team is lined up if it was huddle based.

Yeah, that's a good point. And if that was the case, what about the defense? Do you cut them off too, denying them the chance to get their play called in? Or do you let their communication continue - while the offense has already had their headsets cut off?

I guess if the feeling is that allowing that coach-to-QB communication at the line of scrimmage with the line set and QB calling out audibles is a bad thing, then you could counteract that by either cutting off the communication once the linemen got to the line of scrimmage, or once they were set. The defensive coaches can see the offense is approaching the LOS and know they have to get their call in quickly - which would be true even before headsets were used.

 

[mystrymaster]

Yeah, that's a good point. And if that was the case, what about the defense? Do you cut them off too, denying them the chance to get their play called in? Or do you let their communication continue - while the offense has already had their headsets cut off?

I guess if the feeling is that allowing that coach-to-QB communication at the line of scrimmage with the line set and QB calling out audibles is a bad thing, then you could counteract that by either cutting off the communication once the linemen got to the line of scrimmage, or once they were set. The defensive coaches can see the offense is approaching the LOS and know they have to get their call in quickly - which would be true even before headsets were used.

Yeah I think the offense has the advantage either way I think if they went that way people would go to for lack of a better term "sugar huddles" with the lineman lined up like the old cowboys you used to get in stance but not get down until it was called to.