Brady and Moss names mentioned in rap lyrics

[apple strudel]

If this open-minded chap didn't put me on ignore, he'd see that I basically said the same thing. Also, how do most people feel about modern art? You know, the kind where various geometric shapes are put on a canvas before randomly throwing paint over it followed by selling the thing for twenty-thousand dollars? Maybe I don't understand that, either.

Maybe dogs don't understand that dogfood tastes bad.

If I think something sucks, then it sucks, at least in my own mind. I don't have to explain why I think that way, but I thought it was an interesting topic. Turns out I'm completely ignorant about everything. Does it suck or not? Please tell me. Because, if it really does suck, then how in the world do you figure I'd have something good to say about it?

It sucks, but it's important to understand? What kind of silly crap is that?

Except it doesn't suck, except to you. That's it. If you don't like it, fine, nobody cares. But calling it "bad music" and trying to make a skill argument - as though other genres are necessarily more skilled? You've got to be kidding me.

See the post on Monet/Manet and maybe you'll understand.

 

[Deus Irae]

Doesn't reprimanding someone for political commentary and offering your own in the same sentence strike you as kind of... well, stupid?

No, because I was both responding to his claim and explaining why I didn't want to get into it. I didn't denigrate anyone from any political position, and merely corrected a pretty blatant error on the posters part. Obama may be many things, political and otherwise, but he's not a political centrist in the United States. I wasn't responding from any political position.

I do concede to you that an outsider looking at it could come to your conclusion, however.

 

[feldspar]

Yeah dude, you're missing the point. He tried to justify his subjective taste it with some objective criteria such as skill and ability. He may not like it, but it's not objectively bad by any measure. That's the point. Also, you don't go trolling threads on subjects you just ... don't like. Either he's got way too much time on his hands or he ****s on hip-hop for even worse reasons.

You are missing out on a couple of vital points yourself, fella. I tried to explain why I don't like rap, expanding upon it further than just saying it sucks. There are reasons why I think it sucks, some of those reasons are what I would call objective...just comparing it to other forms of music. Those reason might still be my opinion in your opinion, but you have to draw the line somewhere. You could say that murder is bad, but is that objective or subjective? Something is laid out on the table before me, and I'm explaining what I see. That simple.

And I'm trolling and you aren't just because we happen to disagree? Uh-huh. we are talking about the same thing. I'm not the one attacking someone else based on their honest opinion, which is the only thing I've offered.

 

[apple strudel]

Also, how do most people feel about modern art? You know, the kind where various geometric shapes are put on a canvas before randomly throwing paint over it followed by selling the thing for twenty-thousand dollars? Maybe I don't understand that, either.

That's a pretty safe bet.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No, because I was both responding to his claim and explaining why I didn't want to get into it. I didn't denigrate anyone from any political position, and merely corrected a pretty blatant error on the posters part. Obama may be many things, political and otherwise, but he's not a political centrist in the United States. I wasn't responding from any political position.

I do concede to you that an outsider looking at it could come to your conclusion, however.

The political centrist point didn't come until a later post, which would have been pointless and out of place if you'd actually had the reasonable response of leaving politics out of your statement that we should leave politics out of this discussion.

Don't hurt yourself trying to keep up, but this is what you actually said:

1.) Keep the political commentary out if it, especially given the rough start our new President is off to.

Now, I know I'm not the Supreme Impartial Arbiter of Truth that you are, but that sounds like political commentary to me. Of course, since I happen to have disagreed with you, I'm sure that's just me being subjective. That's how it works, yeah?

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah dude, you're missing the point. He tried to justify his subjective taste it with some objective criteria such as skill and ability. He may not like it, but it's not objectively bad by any measure. That's the point. Also, you don't go trolling threads on subjects you just ... don't like. Either he's got way too much time on his hands or he ****s on hip-hop for even worse reasons.

I'm not missing the point at all. I had to go back and read all his posts. You're arguments have been worse than his. Appreciably worse, I might add, as pretty much any musician could tell you. It definitely takes a greater understanding of how music works to be an adequate instrumentalist than it does to be a singer, for example. Frankly, I was stunned to see anyone actually argue against that point. This post of yours:

See, you don't have an informed opinion. There's nothing to respect in that. It's hardly about the beat at all. It's all about the lyrics, the skill of the rapper, the purpose and effect of the samples, the compositional pastiche, then the beat, and then how it all works together. Pretty much like any other song. If you're applying a guitarist's mentality to hip hop you're just not doing it right.

is a classic example of you making a claim that you can't back up. You have no idea whether or not the poster's opinion was 'informed' or not.

World view. Not actual world. I'm certainly not saying the entire world is debased.

I quoted you word for word. You're wrong to make either claim, but the one you actually put in your post did not mention view.

 

[feldspar]

Except it doesn't suck, except to you. That's it. If you don't like it, fine, nobody cares. But calling it "bad music" and trying to make a skill argument - as though other genres are necessarily more skilled? You've got to be kidding me.

See the post on Monet/Manet and maybe you'll understand.

There YOU go, pretty much being a hypocrite and acting like your side of the argument is fact...like your opinion of me is the truth while not even showing me that you've understood what I've said.

Just explained why I don't like it. That's all. My opinion on the whole matter. Would you prefer someone that is wishy-washy about it? I have conviction. Sorry if that's an alien concept to you.

I do think that other forms of music take more skill...or, if you like, I can say that other forms of music takes a different type of skill, one that is harder to come by. I think that's true. Of course that's my opinion, but I also of course think I'm right. What's your problem?

 

[feldspar]

I'm not missing the point at all. I had to go back and read all his posts. You're arguments have been worse than his. Appreciably worse, I might add, as pretty much any musician could tell you. It definitely takes a greater understanding of how music works to be an adequate instrumentalist than it does to be a singer, for example. Frankly, I was stunned to see anyone actually argue against that point.

Then why put ME on ignore?

I'm not pulling any punches here, either.

 

[Deus Irae]

The political centrist point didn't come until a later post, which would have been pointless and out of place if you'd actually had the reasonable response of leaving politics out of your statement that we should leave politics out of this discussion.

Don't hurt yourself trying to keep up, but this is what you actually said:



Now, I know I'm not the Supreme Impartial Arbiter of Truth that you are, but that sounds like political commentary to me. Of course, since I happen to have disagreed with you, I'm sure that's just me being subjective. That's how it works, yeah?

1.) He criticized the previous president, a Republican.

2.) I noted that political commentary belongs in the political forum.

3.) I noted Obama's rough start. Obama is a Democrat.

Why wouldn't I point to a rough start by the current president as a reason to avoid pointing to the previous president? Complaining about "W" could open the "you say he sucks, but look at this guy!" stuff would make the thread even more political.

I didn't make any comment about Obama's rough start being in any way policy related, by the way.

 

[apple strudel]

There are reasons why I think it sucks, some of those reasons are what I would call objective...just comparing it to other forms of music.

Well that's pretty much the problem, isn't it? You dismiss an entire genre by making "objective" arguments but really it's just opinion masquerading as analysis. Again, if you don't like it, fine. But don't begin to pretend the entire genre is inferior.

And I'm trolling and you aren't just because we happen to disagree?

Absolutely not. You are trolling because you are insistently crapping on the genre this thread happens to be about.

Not skilled ... give me a break. :ugh:

 

[Satchboogie3]

The problem with Rap is that it isn't really music. It's basically just prose set to a simple rhythm. When Rap starts actually having real melody, then I'll call it music.

 

[Clonamery]

Again, if you don't like it, fine. But don't begin to pretend the entire genre is inferior.
QUOTE]

So YOU say.

 

[apple strudel]

It definitely takes a greater understanding of how music works to be an adequate instrumentalist than it does to be a singer, for example.

:ugh: Drumming doesn't even have a key, dude. This is a pretty dumb thing to say. Now you're just arguing to hear the sound of your own voice.

You have no idea whether or not the poster's opinion was 'informed' or not.

Of course I do, because he made silly arguments about skill and yet made no mention of the skill it takes to rap well. It's pretty hard. It's an undeniable skill.

I quoted you word for word. You're wrong to make either claim, but the one you actually put in your post did not mention view.

It seems somewhat obvious to me, but sure, it could have been more clear. The claim is pretty solid, though: dismissing entire genres is probably necessarily lazy-minded and, as a result, somewhat debased.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Again, if you don't like it, fine. But don't begin to pretend the entire genre is inferior.
QUOTE]

So YOU say.

So what you're essentially saying is that, since taste is subjective, one can't objectively state (as apple tried to) that taste is subjective?

Do you realize how self-defeating that entire point is?

 

[apple strudel]

Again, if you don't like it, fine. But don't begin to pretend the entire genre is inferior.

So YOU say.

OK, then. Give me a genre you like and I'll make silly arguments about its abject inferiority.

 

[Clonamery]

OK, then. Give me a genre you like and I'll make silly arguments about its abject inferiority.

Manet/Monet.

 

[glm]

The problem with Rap is that it isn't really music. It's basically just prose set to a simple rhythm. When Rap starts actually having real melody, then I'll call it music.

music - the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line or multiple lines, and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both.

 

[apple strudel]

The problem with Rap is that it isn't really music.

Oh. My. God.

 

[Deus Irae]

:ugh: Drumming doesn't even have a key, dude. This is a pretty dumb thing to say. Now you're just arguing to hear the sound of your own voice.

Wait, so are you saying that drummers don't need to know how to drum? Everyone who's not mute can sing.

Of course I do, because he made silly arguments about skill and yet made no mention of the skill it takes to rap well. It's pretty hard. It's an undeniable skill.

Actually, it's relatively easy. Just like 'regular' singing is. That's why places have "Karaoke night" and not "show up and try to play the guitar/bass/drums/tambourine/sitar/piano night."

It seems somewhat obvious to me, but sure, it could have been more clear. The claim is pretty solid, though: dismissing entire genres is probably necessarily lazy-minded and, as a result, somewhat debased.

The claim was anything but solid. What's interesting about it, though, is that you don't seem to see the hypocrisy inherent in your statement. Let me help:

dismissing those who don't happen like an entire genre as "necessarily lazy-minded and, as a result, somewhat debased" is probably necessarily lazy-minded and, as a result, somewhat debased.

 

[Clonamery]

So what you're essentially saying is that, since taste is subjective, one can't objectively state (as apple tried to) that taste is subjective?

Do you realize how self-defeating that entire point is?

No, opinion is opinion. Belief is belief. Knowing is knowing.