Brady and Moss names mentioned in rap lyrics

[apple strudel]

I happen to have that poster on ignore, but rap music sucking, or not sucking, has nothing to do with his race

It may or it may not.

 

[apple strudel]

... and many people with highly developed musical tastes think that rap sucks ass.

I don't personally like Monet, I prefer Manet. But I understand his importance in leading towards greater abstraction. My personal tastes should not preclude at least a proper understanding of and respect for things that deserve it. So if questions of authorship and citation are important in writing and visual arts, then hip hop and sampling are the musical equivalent. While all of it is admittedly not necessarily good, the genre itself is hugely important in musical history. One may not like it, but one should understand it.

 

[Deus Irae]

It may or it may not.

No, it clearly doesn't. The "goodness" of music is independent of the race of those playing, listening or analyzing. It's also unprovable, at least to date.

The perception of such "goodness" may be impacted, since it's individualized in each evaluator, but one could easily argue in the other direction as well, by noting the 'bias' of a black listener. Pointing to race without evidence is, frankly, foolish to me, given the success of a white rapper like Eminem, and the findings of the RIAA that white youths buy 60% of rap. It reminds me of the claims in the past that viewers wouldn't watch black people on TV because of racism, while the Cosby Show and Oprah were dominating the ratings.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't personally like Monet, I prefer Manet. But I understand his importance in leading towards greater abstraction. My personal tastes should not preclude at least a proper understanding of and respect for things that deserve it. So if questions of authorship and citation are important in writing and visual arts, then hip hop and sampling are the musical equivalent. While all of it is admittedly not necessarily good, the genre itself is hugely important in musical history. One may not like it, but one should understand it.

Does one have to understand sitar music, or the bagpipes? Is it essential to grasp the Japanese flute? Is any of this a requirement for music appreciation?

Of course it's not.

Furthermore, while you might claim that it deserves respect, millions of people would disagree.

 

[apple strudel]

No, it clearly doesn't. The "goodness" of music is independent of the race of those playing, listening or analyzing.

Baloney. The "goodness" is obviously subjective so, you know, the eye of the beholder and all that. So, you know, people listen to Christian music for, you know, a personal reason.

The perception of such "goodness" may be impacted, since it's individualized in each evaluator, but one could easily argue in the other direction as well, by noting the 'bias' of a black listener. Pointing to race without evidence is, frankly, foolish to me, given the success of a white rapper like Eminem, and the findings of the RIAA that white youths buy 60% of rap. It reminds me of the claims in the past that viewers wouldn't watch black people on TV because of racism, while the Cosby Show and Oprah were dominating the ratings.

Other people's taste or motives obviously have no necessary bearing on his. He's pretty passionate in his hate - maybe he just watches too much cable news.

Edit: quotes.

 

[feldspar]

Thats what makes it funny. On a message board, sometimes you find yourself arguing with someone, and don't even realize who they might be. They might actually know what they're talking about, and have the credentials to back it up. Let him spout off about playing guitar for 20 years. Who cares?

Thanks for throwing me a bone.

I don't talk unless I know what I'm talking about...usually, anyway. Sometimes other people might not know what I'm talking about, but I do. Sometimes it's hard to say exactly what you mean, especially if you have a lot to say, and a lot of people don't have the patience or interest to hear the whole story. But you don't have to be a musician to have a valid opinion about music or have biases against certain genres...just like you don't have to be a chef to decide whether a certain food tastes good or not...but a chef is probably more critical when he eats what somebody else prepared, if you see what I'm saying. He can also be more appreciative.

I could write a book on this subject to explain exactly where I'm coming from, but who would read it?

 

[apple strudel]

Does one have to understand sitar music, or the bagpipes? Is it essential to grasp the Japanese flute? Is any of this a requirement for music appreciation?

What in the world are you talking about? I'm talking about at least understanding the thing this kid is crapping on. Not something unrelated.

Furthermore, while you might claim that it deserves respect, millions of people would disagree.

So? Millions of people voted for W. I'd say it's a pretty debased world that dismisses whole genres with a lazy, ignorant, or hateful wave of the hand. Is that your game?

 

[zoostation]

whatevs....


check my boys from Beantown Mr. Lif......and Akrobatic



watch the video as Kraft presents Ak with the Jersey




YouTube - New England Patriots Anthem (Produced by Willie Evans Jr.)

Good stuff!

 

[Deus Irae]

What in the world are you talking about? I'm talking about at least understanding the thing this kid is crapping on. Not something unrelated.

If he thinks it sucks, then it sucks. After all, using your argument:

The "goodness" is obviously subjective so, you know, the eye of the beholder and all that.

you pretty much kill your own position. Since it's subjective, according to you, you have no standing to argue, or even to mildly disagree, with him. Rap music sucks because he says it sucks.

So? Millions of people voted for W. I'd say it's a pretty debased world that dismisses whole genres with a lazy, ignorant, or hateful wave of the hand. Is that your game?

1.) Keep the political commentary out if it, especially given the rough start our new President is off to.

2.) Just because you claim the world is dismissing the whole genre with a "lazy, ignorant or hateful wave of the hand" doesn't make the statement true.

 

[Clonamery]

If he thinks it sucks, then it sucks. After all, using your argument:



you pretty much kill your own position. Since it's subjective, according to you, you have no standing to argue, or even to mildly disagree, with him. Rap music sucks because he says it sucks.




1.) Keep the political commentary out if it, especially given the rough start our new President is off to.

2.) Just because you claim the world is dismissing the whole genre with a "lazy, ignorant or hateful wave of the hand" doesn't make the statement true.

Hey, nevermind the rap argument, this lesson in "logic" is excellent.

 

[apple strudel]

If he thinks it sucks, then it sucks. After all, using your argument: ... you pretty much kill your own position. Since it's subjective, according to you, you have no standing to argue, or even to mildly disagree, with him. Rap music sucks because he says it sucks.

:ugh: Uh, it's only a personal assessment, not a universal one. That's the point. It sucks for him, but no extrapolation can be made. And that is only an issue of personal taste. But he's making an argument as to quality of music ("bad music"). I.e., he's extrapolating beyond personal taste. And he's getting creamed for it. That's the point. :ugh:

Also, if you're going to go about trolling unrelated threads with your personal tastes, you're going to get smeared if you don't bring anything to the table.

1.) Keep the political commentary out if it, especially given the rough start our new President is off to.

Suck it. W was a travesty and Obama is a pansy centrist who's afraid to go toe-to-toe with the insurance companies.

2.) Just because you claim the world is dismissing the whole genre with a "lazy, ignorant or hateful wave of the hand" doesn't make the statement true.

I never claimed the world is doing anything. :ugh: But dismissing entire genres is at least ignorant.

 

[apple strudel]

Hey, nevermind the rap argument, this lesson in "logic" is excellent.

Except it's wrong.

 

[Clonamery]

Except it's wrong.

So you say.

 

[Deus Irae]

:ugh: Uh, it's only a personal assessment, not a universal one. That's the point. It sucks for him, but no extrapolation can be made. And that is only an issue of personal taste. But he's making an argument as to quality of music ("bad music"). I.e., he's extrapolating beyond personal taste. And he's getting creamed for it. That's the point. :ugh:

Also, if you're going to go about trolling unrelated threads with your personal tastes, you're going to get smeared if you don't bring anything to the table.

Again, you claim that the 'goodness' is subjective. In his subjective view, there's little to no 'goodness' in rap music. He's brought every bit as much to the table as you have.

Suck it. W was a travesty and Obama is a pansy centrist who's afraid to go toe-to-toe with the insurance companies.

Obama was, arguably, the most liberal senator in the United States. That has nothing to do with what I noted, however. Political commentary has its own forum.

I never claimed the world is doing anything. :ugh: But dismissing entire genres is at least ignorant.

I'd say it's a pretty debased world that dismisses whole genres with a lazy, ignorant, or hateful wave of the hand.

Pretty much says it all, right there in your post.

 

[apple strudel]

Again, you claim that the 'goodness' is subjective. In his subjective view, there's little to no 'goodness' in rap music. He's brought every bit as much to the table as you have.

Yeah dude, you're missing the point. He tried to justify his subjective taste it with some objective criteria such as skill and ability. He may not like it, but it's not objectively bad by any measure. That's the point. Also, you don't go trolling threads on subjects you just ... don't like. Either he's got way too much time on his hands or he ****s on hip-hop for even worse reasons.

Obama was, arguably, the most liberal senator in the United States.

Not a useful metric for comparison.

Pretty much says it all, right there in your post.

World view. Not actual world. I'm certainly not saying the entire world is debased.

 

[Clonamery]

World view. Not actual world. I'm certainly not saying the entire world is debased.

Just the view?

 

[feldspar]

If he thinks it sucks, then it sucks. After all, using your argument:



you pretty much kill your own position. Since it's subjective, according to you, you have no standing to argue, or even to mildly disagree, with him. Rap music sucks because he says it sucks.

If this open-minded chap didn't put me on ignore, he'd see that I basically said the same thing. Also, how do most people feel about modern art? You know, the kind where various geometric shapes are put on a canvas before randomly throwing paint over it followed by selling the thing for twenty-thousand dollars? Maybe I don't understand that, either.

Maybe dogs don't understand that dogfood tastes bad.

If I think something sucks, then it sucks, at least in my own mind. I don't have to explain why I think that way, but I thought it was an interesting topic. Turns out I'm completely ignorant about everything. Does it suck or not? Please tell me. Because, if it really does suck, then how in the world do you figure I'd have something good to say about it?

It sucks, but it's important to understand? What kind of silly crap is that?

 

[BradyFTW!]

1.) Keep the political commentary out if it, especially given the rough start our new President is off to.

Doesn't reprimanding someone for political commentary and offering your own in the same sentence strike you as kind of... well, stupid?

 

[Clonamery]

Doesn't reprimanding someone for political commentary and offering your own in the same sentence strike you as kind of... well, stupid?

No, it was defeating the argument.

 

[BradyFTW!]

No, it was defeating the argument.

1) No it didn't
2) If the argument doesn't belong here anyways, then why further it by attempting to 'defeat' it? I agree with the first part of his sentence, which is that political discussion doesn't belong here. Baiting the topic is counterproductive at best, and hypocritical at the same time.