Vollmer at Left Tackle

[nashvillepatsfan]

Michael Roos. He's Estonian. A lot like Vollmer physically. He's their starting left tackle and a very good one.

Yep, i do feel stupid. I like Roos, but ive stopped paying attention to the Titans ever since the Rodney issue. Now, they, and their fans can gf-themselves

 

[JoeSixPat]

I happened to come across this years East West Shrine game I had on my DVR. Who is the starting RT... SeaBass. He is head to head against Lawrence Sidbury (Richmond DE) who everyone loved as a speed rusher. SeaBass swallowed him up and Sidbury never got close to the QB's. It was embarrassing (and probably teh reason that Sisdbury wnet so low in the draft). After seeing that tape I know why the Pats project him as a LT.

Also in that game were Briam Hoyer, Myron Pryor (great stop on 4th and goal) and Darryl Richards.

I saw that highlight too - it's tough to dominate a guy as big as Vollmer - and he's got good feet too from the looks of it.

While I don't want to read too much into seeing him get some reps at LT this early, it's sure not a bad sign either. Nor am I writing off Matt Light - but as we've seen with LTs, when they lose a step, the downhill slide can happen very quick.

I also disagree that it's impossible to rotate Vollmer in on obvious passing downs against a speed rusher. That would only be a very small portion of the downs this season, and if Vollmer is that much better than Light against speed rushers I can't see why they couldn't find a way to make it work - but this is obviously VERY pre-mature speculation.

 

[captain stone]

These are the debates I find it hard to understand.
As fans, all we really have to go on is what other people say about players in the draft, and the limited amount we have seen them on TV.
Then we draw that opinion, and compare it to the one Bill Belichick formed from:
-HIS opinion of the player (not scouts, writers, Kipers, etc)
-Personal contact with the player
-Film STUDY
-HIS knowledge of his system and what is required

and 2 months later fans are acting as if there is any possiblity they would have been better equipped to chose between those 2 players than BB.

It just makes no sense. How can you call it a bad pick. (not you Patchick) It is only a bad pick if you put more faith in the people whose opinions you are using to form yours than you put in BB.
It is a FACT that if any of those people were better at evaluating draft choices than Bill Belichick they would be employed by an NFL team making 10 times as much money.

Bill has effed-up plenty of draft picks in the past, esp. on the second day, and will likely do so in the future, if he hasn't done so already this year.

What's so hard to understand about that?

It's also a fact that because those other people whom we read & listen to during draft season get paid too, their opinion obviously carries some degree of legitimacy for those who pay them, and read them, and listen to them.
Those other people also have personal contact with players;
they also have studied film;
they also have watched live games & live workouts;
they also have knowledge of which players would better fit which systems.

What about that doesn't make sense?

Finally, and based on Bill's lousy draft record after Vince Wilfork and until Darius Butler - with the happy exception of 2005 - I am calling Vollmer (and Tate, and Ohrnburger, and Bussey, and Pryor) a bad pick because I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

Now, if any of the aforementioned draft picks this year prove to be worth the places at which they were taken, then I will be right here to take my lumps, congratulate Bill, and begin to restore my faith in him.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Bill has effed-up plenty of draft picks in the past, esp. on the second day, systems.

PWP: OK we can agree that BB is fallible. He is not, The One.

I am calling Vollmer (and Tate, and Ohrnburger, and Bussey, and Pryor) a bad pick because I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

Wow, just wow!

The 100,000 light year leap from BB is fallible to (hyperdrive ON!!!) trusting draftnik mediots and laughably oneself is mind boggling.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

... and there's where we differ.

To your credit, rather than making a hollow and hypocritical statement, you stuck to your guns and followed your assertion right off the rational cliff.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bill has effed-up plenty of draft picks in the past, esp. on the second day, and will likely do so in the future, if he hasn't done so already this year.

What's so hard to understand about that?

So has every other GM in the league. If you don't believe it, why don't you go and do the research on it.

It's also a fact that because those other people whom we read & listen to during draft season get paid too, their opinion obviously carries some degree of legitimacy for those who pay them, and read them, and listen to them.
Those other people also have personal contact with players;
they also have studied film;
they also have watched live games & live workouts;
they also have knowledge of which players would better fit which systems.

What about that doesn't make sense?

What doesn't make sense is that those services and people (like Kiper) are pretty clueless as to what the Patriots look for. While those people have "personal contact" with the players, they aren't the ones who are actually doing the hiring. In fact, NONE of them are being paid by the Patriots. So, what they say and think and no bearing on the Patriots personnel decisions. All they can be used for, when it comes to the Patriots, is a general guide.

Finally, and based on Bill's lousy draft record after Vince Wilfork and until Darius Butler - with the happy exception of 2005 - I am calling Vollmer (and Tate, and Ohrnburger, and Bussey, and Pryor) a bad pick because I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

*ROFLMAO* And people say that I have a big ego?

So, Brandon Meriweather was a bad pick? So was Stephen Gostkowski? Jerod Mayo was a bad pick? Matt Cassel was a bad pick? Jonathan Wilhite and Terence Wheatley were bad picks? Watson was a bad pick?

Dude, you seriously got some screws loose.

Why don't you pull up your mock drafts since 2004 and lets compare them to Belichick's? Let everyone here see your "greatness."

Now, if any of the aforementioned draft picks this year prove to be worth the places at which they were taken, then I will be right here to take my lumps, congratulate Bill, and begin to restore my faith in him.

Sure you will...

 

[mayoclinic]

It's impossible for casual fans to evaluate Vollmer or Beatty until they play. All we do know is that this team has a pretty good record of drafting linemen, and beyond that it worked pretty well the last time Floyd Reese drafted a relatively unknown foreign-born tackle. Right? I mean isn't it a little early to be freaking out about a second-round lineman?

I love the Vollmer comparison with Michael Roos as prospects coming out of college - both foreign born huge guys with nice athleticism and a tough streak who flew a bit below people's radar. I hadn't thought about Floyd Reese's possible input into the pick, but he certainly hit a home run with Roos in 2005 - if Vollmer ends up being a similar player the Pats will be very, very happy.

 

[satz]

Do you think he will get into the HOF as a LT or a RT.

seriously a tonne LT come out every year and they dominate in college.NFL is a different beast.This vollmer can be a good RG or RT as we except our LT,LG to do alot of down field blocking in RB screens and WR bubble screens. A reason we feild a smaller bunch.

We can put him in LT and getting of the screens is such a bad idea.

 

[IcyPatriot]

A great move to create depth is all it is right now. Better than Levitra ... that jag is useless at LT.

 

[JFK]

Bill has effed-up plenty of draft picks in the past, esp. on the second day, and will likely do so in the future, if he hasn't done so already this year.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Finally, and based on Bill's lousy draft record after Vince Wilfork and until Darius Butler - with the happy exception of 2005 - I am calling Vollmer (and Tate, and Ohrnburger, and Bussey, and Pryor) a bad pick because I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

I don't disagree with you but I think Vollimer and Tate are good picks.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Finally, and based on Bill's lousy draft record after Vince Wilfork and until Darius Butler - with the happy exception of 2005 - I am calling Vollmer (and Tate, and Ohrnburger, and Bussey, and Pryor) a bad pick because I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

I think the explanation is Belichick isn't concerned with his "hit rate", knowing he can sign a million decent players as FA. He could draft lots of usable players and make his drafts look good but I think he's more interested in taking intelligent shots at greatness. With Beatty's softness I doubt Belichick saw greatness - with Vollmer he saw that chance. That doesn't make Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings a good pick but it explains some of the thinking to me. With FA, decent players are a dime a dozen. The draft is a chance to swing for greatness; and often miss.

 

[Deus Irae]

Finally, and based on Bill's lousy draft record after Vince Wilfork and until Darius Butler - with the happy exception of 2005 - I am calling Vollmer (and Tate, and Ohrnburger, and Bussey, and Pryor) a bad pick because I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

Now, if any of the aforementioned draft picks this year prove to be worth the places at which they were taken, then I will be right here to take my lumps, congratulate Bill, and begin to restore my faith in him.

The Patriots draft record after Wilfork has been fine.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Bill has effed-up plenty of draft picks in the past, esp. on the second day, and will likely do so in the future, if he hasn't done so already this year.

Finally, and based on Bill's lousy draft record after Vince Wilfork and until Darius Butler - with the happy exception of 2005 - I am calling Vollmer (and Tate, and Ohrnburger, and Bussey, and Pryor) a bad pick because I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

Now, if any of the aforementioned draft picks this year prove to be worth the places at which they were taken, then I will be right here to take my lumps, congratulate Bill, and begin to restore my faith in him.

WOW. You were one of the people who thought the Pats should sign Culpepper last year, and dump Cassel, huh?

Really, its ok to have an opinion, but i think you've lost your mind

 

[pdangle]

I think the explanation is Belichick isn't concerned with his "hit rate", knowing he can sign a million decent players as FA. He could draft lots of usable players and make his drafts look good but I think he's more interested in taking intelligent shots at greatness. With Beatty's softness I doubt Belichick saw greatness - with Vollmer he saw that chance. That doesn't make Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings a good pick but it explains some of the thinking to me. With FA, decent players are a dime a dozen. The draft is a chance to swing for greatness; and often miss.

This is a very good point, and probably often overlooked by many casual draft observers. It also helps explain why he would "reach" for these players as well. The cost of losing "greatness" is not worth the added value of waiting and then possibly losing the player.

 

[JackBauer]

*ROFLMAO* And people say that I have a big ego?

So, Brandon Meriweather was a bad pick? So was Stephen Gostkowski? Jerod Mayo was a bad pick? Matt Cassel was a bad pick? Jonathan Wilhite and Terence Wheatley were bad picks? Watson was a bad pick?

Holy cow, I've read some dumb things here, but that may just take the cake.

Just as an example, Gostkowski is rated as the top kicker in the NFL -- how on EARTH could you call that a bad pick?

Should be interesting to see if the Captain has the stones to come back in this thread and attempt to justify that post.

 

[patchick]

These are the debates I find it hard to understand.
As fans, all we really have to go on is what other people say about players in the draft, and the limited amount we have seen them on TV.
Then we draw that opinion, and compare it to the one Bill Belichick formed from:
-HIS opinion of the player (not scouts, writers, Kipers, etc)
-Personal contact with the player
-Film STUDY
-HIS knowledge of his system and what is required

and 2 months later fans are acting as if there is any possiblity they would have been better equipped to chose between those 2 players than BB.

It just makes no sense. How can you call it a bad pick. (not you Patchick) It is only a bad pick if you put more faith in the people whose opinions you are using to form yours than you put in BB.
It is a FACT that if any of those people were better at evaluating draft choices than Bill Belichick they would be employed by an NFL team making 10 times as much money.

Andy, the problem with that is that it leads to the conclusion that no fan has the right to offer ANY opinion on draft moves -- and that any move BB makes is by definition good, because he made it.

Logically, a draft pick can't really be "good" or "bad" before camp even starts, but a draftnik Pats fan can still have opinions based on the admittedly limited info available to us. Most often BB totally schools us, but occasionally (e.g. Greg Jennings vs. Chad Jackson) the PatsFans draft board turns out to have the right idea.

In the case of Vollmer vs. Beatty at #58, it certainly counts as a massive surprise. Vollmer was generally considered an intriguing day-2 pick (no combine invite), while Beatty a possible 1st rounder. Personally, I'm fascinated by Vollmer and his amazing potential, but he's raw enough that you have to call the pick risky at least in the 2nd round.

 

[patchick]

I am calling Vollmer (and Tate, and Ohrnburger, and Bussey, and Pryor) a bad pick because I do indeed have more faith in those other people - and myself - right now than I do in the infallible, almighty Bill Belichick.

Others have already piled on this, but you're just making a classic kind of mistake. A hero turns out to be fallible, you're hurt and disillusioned, and so you turn to somebody, anybody else -- even though they're clearly less reliable than the fallen hero.

Try going back to see who your alternate gods picked for the Pats over the past 5 years, and whether their choices turned out perfectly. Once you realize that drafting is simply an imperfect science, maybe you can get past your anger and look forward to the season.

 

[Clonamery]

Others have already piled on this, but you're just making a classic kind of mistake. A hero turns out to be fallible, you're hurt and disillusioned, and so you turn to somebody, anybody else -- even though they're clearly less reliable than the fallen hero.

Try going back to see who your alternate gods picked for the Pats over the past 5 years, and whether their choices turned out perfectly. Once you realize that drafting is simply an imperfect science, maybe you can get past your anger and look forward to the season.

That's a kindly post.

I think the subject of your objectivity, Mr. Borg....er, Cpt Stone, cannot get past the memory of his Draft wedgies. Such is life but thanks for trying (because few else want to).

 

[AzPatsFan]

SeaBass better be groomed for LT, and not RT; otherwise, it would be an even worse draft pick then I already think it is. Vollmer instead of Beatty still blows my mind.

For once and for all, the Dean of the draft gurus, Rich Gosslin had Darius Butler as his 28th pick, Patrick Chung as his 58th pick, Ron Brace as his 59th pick, Sebastion Volmer as his 76th pick, Rich Orhnberger as his 80th pick, Tyrone McKenzie as his 97th pick.

The only guy that the Patriots drafted in the first four rounds, not on his Top 100 list was unrated Brandon Tate, and with his Knee and MJ test, it is easy to see why Gosslein dropped him from his ratings.

You don't know sh!t from Shinola, so stop acting and posting as if you did!

Beatty will develop into a n average good pass block, no run block, LOT. SeaBass has the possibility of joining the Ogden, Bosselli, class of LOTs, able to run block, as well as pass block. Dante Scarnechia worked both out, at UConn and Houston, and made the judgement from up-close.:snob:

 

[BradyFTW!]

Should be interesting to see if the Captain has the stones to come back in this thread and attempt to justify that post.

Nah, he'll be too busy getting acclimated to his new job running some NFL team's scouting department.