At Least Eight Openings For Rookies

[14thDragon]

Thanks for doing that. A lot of these FA signings are keepers, and it had me wondering how we sign any draftees. Do you think Tully is a guy who could lose his spot to a draftee as well?

I may be in the minority, but I certainly hope he does. I would prefer not to keep he around just for special teams play.

But this mostly due to the fact I like Crable as an OLB and there are only so many spots open for the 45 man roster. I would like any rookie OLB coming in to get the special teams reps that would go to TBC and work them in as situational OLB along with Crable.

But my opinion of Tully as both an OLB and special teamer is far lower then some.

 

[JSn]

I may be in the minority, but I certainly hope he does. I would prefer not to keep he around just for special teams play.

But this mostly due to the fact I like Crable as an OLB...

What do you base this on, though? I mean, I REALLY hope he shows up out of nowhere erasing the biggest remaining concern of the year, but I don't know how to justify this hope.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

What do you base this on, though? I mean, I REALLY hope he shows up out of nowhere erasing the biggest remaining concern of the year, but I don't know how to justify this hope.

Crable had a solid preseason, he was held inactive because he was just too light to hold up in the game and they apparently didn't consider him to be the best option for Special Teams. When he injured himself in Practice it just made more sense to IR him and allow him to work with the Strength and Conditioning folks. He's was off to as good a start as you'd expect for a young OLB. A fair reason for hope.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Yes, I believe that we need a backup at both free and strong safety. BTW, I am not a fan of not having a backup free safety, presuming that a corner can always be moved (Springs this year). While this is true and valuable in an emergency, My preference is to have four true safeties o the initial 53 man roster, at least one of which is a top special teamer.

first four picks: OLB, ILB, S, OG
next two: OT, S

Any prefeence for which ST position? Do you think a reserve FS can be an effective gunner on our ST. Who do you think will be our gunners for next season and can they do the job this year's crew did.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Crable had a solid preseason, he was held inactive because he was just too light to hold up in the game and they apparently didn't consider him to be the best option for Special Teams. When he injured himself in Practice it just made more sense to IR him and allow him to work with the Strength and Conditioning folks. He's was off to as good a start as you'd expect for a young OLB. A fair reason for hope.

That is the big question mark concerning Crable. Will he show up at TC bigger, stronger and tougher? Can he get into that 265-270 lb range without any sand in the pants and legs a chicken would be envious of?

Setting the edge is a real man's job. It is nasty physical and exhausting work. How does a guy with such a petitte lower body sink his hips and anchor against 330lb plus OL guys?

If Woicik has rescuptured his body, the need at OLB would be considerably lessened. Not filled,just lessened.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, the open question is to understand what Belichick is doing at OLB. Vrabel will start for KC and lead the defense. If we think we can come up with money for Taylor, if we really want to, then we certainly could have kept Vrabel. If Green is worth $2.2M for a year, surely Vrabel was worth $3.2M.

So what does the master have in mind at OLB? Who does he expect to perform better than Vrabel? And which backup is so good that we don't need Vrabel to share reps (like Bruschi and Guyton).

OPEN QUESTION: Who does Belichick expect to be our starter and backup in 2009? And please, don't tell me he cut Vrabel counting on drafting a particular rookie as a starter. The draft doesn't work that way.

How does Belichick evaluate Woods, Crable, Banta-Cain, and Redd. Surely he sees something in TWO of these players, one as a starter. I can see him believing that either Woods and/or Banta-Cain are solid backups. But Belichick must think that someone is capable of starting.

An alernative is that he indeed is counting on the draft and has several alternate scenarios to meet the need. Personally, I don't see the players who might start or be a starter by md-season.

 

[JSn]

OPEN QUESTION: Who does Belichick expect to be our starter and backup in 2009? And please, don't tell me he cut Vrabel counting on drafting a particular rookie as a starter. The draft doesn't work that way.

How does Belichick evaluate Woods, Crable, Banta-Cain, and Redd. Surely he sees something in TWO of these players, one as a starter. I can see him believing that either Woods and/or Banta-Cain are solid backups. But Belichick must think that someone is capable of starting.

An alernative is that he indeed is counting on the draft and has several alternate scenarios to meet the need. Personally, I don't see the players who might start or be a starter by md-season.

Guyton is my sophomore binky, but I really can't picture him moving to OLB except in dire emergency. He's ready to start at ILB, at least on 1st and 2nd.

OLB is mysterious, but it's hard to believe there is no plan.

My thoughts (worth little, I guess, but indulge me?):

Faint: Peppers has agreed to something affordable but must corner his team into releasing him for less than two firsts.

Visible but hazy: Has targeted someone in the draft he knows he can get and believes can start.

I could hit it with a perfectly weighted stone or identify it in a line-up: Believes Crable will be ready and has been watching his offseason work VERY closely. Is willing to gamble, provided a restraining order against soccer balls is observed.

I could catch it in soggy work boots: Pierre Woods is showing enough to be a solid option if no-one overtakes him in camp.

To recap, in order of plausibility...

Peppers - Loch Ness Monster
Counting on a Draftee - Sasquatch
Crable is ready - Moon Landing
Pierre Woods is the man - Global Warming

Oh, I should add this one: Acquire Peppers AND Jason Taylor - Confessions of a Shopaholic wins an Oscar

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

OPEN QUESTION: Who does Belichick expect to be our starter and backup in 2009? ...How does Belichick evaluate Woods, Crable, Banta-Cain, and Redd. Surely he sees something in TWO of these players, one as a starter. I can see him believing that either Woods and/or Banta-Cain are solid backups. But Belichick must think that someone is capable of starting.

At this point, Adalius is the only one who's past performance makes him a lock as a three down LB.

-- Woods, despite several detractors, showed promise, though apparently not enough to get him tendered at more than a second round compensation or offered a long term contract (though they could be counting on an uncapped 2010 extending him another season as an RFA).
-- TBC provided a decent pass rush before he left, and while he was better than his detractors would allow at setting the edge, he wasn't the best at it either.

I can see Pierre as a two-down OLB, replaced by TBC on passing downs. Not the ideal, but you get enough of a pass rush from Pierre if they pass on 1st or 2nd down, and TBC provides enough against a run play on a passing down. I can't give either the edge in coverage yet, but they might address that by switching up the coverage assignments using Mayo, Guyton, and Adalius differently.

Redd got more reps last season than I had expected. He must have pleased the coaches to acquire at least three Practice Player of the week black jersies in addition to the rookie reps. He has the size to set the edge - he's also got experience at Virginia and Liberty as a 3-4 OLB and 3-4 DE. Their postseason film review would have included practice and game film and he might have graded out much better then expected.

Craig was a high school LB who was switched between LB and DE at Cincinnati. I'd seen him play up on his feet and not look out of place both in college and his All-Star game. It may be he's ahead of the curve.

Crable is the big unknown.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

To recap, in order of plausibility...

Peppers - Loch Ness Monster
Counting on a Draftee - Sasquatch
Crable is ready - Moon Landing
Pierre Woods is the man - Global Warming

Um, the ice age has receded in Ontario?

 

[JSn]

Um, the ice age has receded in Ontario?

It was up to 9 degrees today (48.2 degrees in the archaic tongue ).

12-13 tomorrow (55.4).

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It was up to 9 degrees today (48.2 degrees in the archaic tongue ).

12-13 tomorrow (55.4).

I was wondering as I'm not a big fan of junk science, but I do think Nessie would make a fine addition in the creek out back.

 

[JSn]

I was wondering as I'm not a big fan of junk science, but I do think Nessie would make a fine addition in the creek out back.

Dude, you can get a a sweet Nessie disguise that is a single-man submarine now. This is something that would be a definite "must own" in basically any part of the US with water!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Dude, you can get a a sweet Nessie disguise that is a single-man submarine now. This is something that would be a definite "must own" in basically any part of the US with water!

So that's the new smuggling vehicles I've been reading about in Lake Erie! Fargin' EPA blaming it on toxic waste affecting the sea lamphries.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with your analysis. The default is Woods starting and Bant-Cain on passing downs, and work with Crable and Redd and hope for a player in the draft.

However, it would seem that Belichick would need a better plan than the above in order to dump Vrabel; perhaps not.

At this point, Adalius is the only one who's past performance makes him a lock as a three down LB.

-- Woods, despite several detractors, showed promise, though apparently not enough to get him tendered at more than a second round compensation or offered a long term contract (though they could be counting on an uncapped 2010 extending him another season as an RFA).
-- TBC provided a decent pass rush before he left, and while he was better than his detractors would allow at setting the edge, he wasn't the best at it either.

I can see Pierre as a two-down OLB, replaced by TBC on passing downs. Not the ideal, but you get enough of a pass rush from Pierre if they pass on 1st or 2nd down, and TBC provides enough against a run play on a passing down. I can't give either the edge in coverage yet, but they might address that by switching up the coverage assignments using Mayo, Guyton, and Adalius differently.

Redd got more reps last season than I had expected. He must have pleased the coaches to acquire at least three Practice Player of the week black jersies in addition to the rookie reps. He has the size to set the edge - he's also got experience at Virginia and Liberty as a 3-4 OLB and 3-4 DE. Their postseason film review would have included practice and game film and he might have graded out much better then expected.

Craig was a high school LB who was switched between LB and DE at Cincinnati. I'd seen him play up on his feet and not look out of place both in college and his All-Star game. It may be he's ahead of the curve.

Crable is the big unknown.

 

[JSn]

The Vrabel thing is still a head scratcher, and may remain one forever, unless there was some element to his game that just HAS to be replaced, and it was essentially an honourable discharge.

Whatever the case, we're adequately prepared to address the situation with 4 OLB's besides Thomas on the roster and numerous now-flexible draft picks.

We should just draft ONLY OLB's and surely one will be awesome, haha.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I agree with your analysis. The default is Woods starting and Bant-Cain on passing downs, and work with Crable and Redd and hope for a player in the draft.

However, it would seem that Belichick would need a better plan than the above in order to dump Vrabel; perhaps not.

At this point I'm not trying to factor the Vrabel move in, it's a done deal and BB clearly had some plan in mind when it went down, even if we have no idea what he was thinking.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

...we're adequately prepared to address the situation with 4 OLB's besides Thomas on the roster...

Five OLBs besides Thomas: Woods, TBC, Crable, Redd, and Craig. :nono:

 

[rookBoston]

The most obvious gaps on the roster at OLB and S.

BB has a history of fielding three Safeties in a Big Nickel, but we dont have the talent on the roster to do it unless he brings Tank and or Rodney back.

WR depth is admirably patched up, but I could still see a pick like Robiskie in the 2nd as part of a youth movement.

BB has already made statements on PFW about the quality of the OLB class. He called out Larry English and Clint Sintim by name. Between them and Barwin, Matthews and Cushing, Maybin and Everette Brown, I think he expects to find a guy that can play his scheme at #23. Most of those guys will last to the 20s... maybe three of them will come off before then.

Round 1 and 2 - OLB, S, WR, OC/OG
Round 3 and 4 - DB, STer, OL
Round 5, 6, 7 - specialists like a LS or P, a QB for the PS, some hardworking long-shot with a high motor and a nose for kickoff coverage

 

[rookBoston]

I also wanted to observe that it's no sure thing that Seymour will be re-signed. I think Wilfork, Mankins and Gostkowski are all top-priorities, and well ahead of him in terms of urgency. I even think Warren is more likely to return than Seymour.

With that in mind, maybe someone like Evander Hood makes sense...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I also wanted to observe that it's no sure thing that Seymour will be re-signed. I think Wilfork, Mankins and Gostkowski are all top-priorities, and well ahead of him in terms of urgency. I even think Warren is more likely to return than Seymour.

With that in mind, maybe someone like Evander Hood makes sense...

Warren returning before Seymour! Holy cow, you must be psychic!
Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2009 Patriots Roster Page

LDE Ty Warren (94) 6-4, 307, 28 years, signed through 2013