The OLB Candidates

[Patriot Missile]

Its very hard to grade USC players based on STATS alone. You have to look at how they were used. USC is such a dominating team, that players don't necessarily get big numbers because the other team doesn't have the chance to put up the plays for those numbers to be tallied.

I mentioned this same thing in another post. I'm scared to evaluate a USC player and admit to be vehemently against signing Rivers last season. Even though he succeeded quite well at the NFL level until becoming injured. The problem is that when you have a college team that would give the Detroit Lions a run for their money, who is allowing who to breach to the QB? Is it that big DT or DE collapsing the pocket against that pathetic offensive line they are playing that week allowing the LB's to just terrorize the back field? Probably a little of both not to mention getting the best recruits right out of the country. Very hard to evaluate imo.

I don't know, I just try to stay away from them. Cushing, Mathews and "Melaguaa" are risky 1st round picks imo,although I know many would disagree.

 

[Warren94]

Move Cushing to the inside. Bruschi is not going to last forever. Guyton is better on the Outside imo.

 

[patchick]

Move Cushing to the inside. Bruschi is not going to last forever. Guyton is better on the Outside imo.

Wow, I strongly disagree with the bolded statement. Guyton is WILB all the way to me.

 

[Warren94]

Give him a couple of years in an NFL Nutrition program. He is not going to be the elephant position that Mcginest or Vrabel were but I think his intangibles, instincts and smarts make him a good fit as an OLB.

 

[Warren94]

Wow, I strongly disagree with the bolded statement. Guyton is WILB all the way to me.

Georgia Tech Official Athletic Site



college profile

 

[patchick]

Georgia Tech Official Athletic Site



college profile

Yep, that would be the college experience that left him undrafted...prior to looking great as an NFL ILB.

 

[patsfan55]

Wow, I strongly disagree with the bolded statement. Guyton is WILB all the way to me.

Agreed, Guyton looked HORRIFIC on the outside last year. Just when I thought we couldn't get any olbs playing worse contain, in popped Guyton. The guy makes Colvin look like the best edge setter in the NFL.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Agreed, Guyton looked HORRIFIC on the outside last year. Just when I thought we couldn't get any olbs playing worse contain, in popped Guyton. The guy makes Colvin look like the best edge setter in the NFL.

Well, I think what we saw was Guyton asked to play as a NE 3-4 OLB, something he was not asked to do in college. He spent most of his time working at ILB in camp, he didn't have the sand in his pants he needed to play the edge, and he was about what I expected from any kid in his situation. I think after the offseason program he will be a little stronger, hopefully a little heavier, and in time he'll learn enough to serve in an emergency if he's ever needed there again. He might even be better then that if he gets enough work outside.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

It all comes down to how BB projects these players in his 3-4 defense. But from watching the film, here is what I see.

1.) Cushings - best OLB run defender of the group hands down. Great work ethic and strength. But doesn't look to be an elite pass rusher off the edge and is barely adequate in coveage. He has bulked up so much that it has compromised his natural athletism.

2.) Sintim - best pass rusher of the group and not that bad as a run defender. Terrible in coverage and does not appear instinctive or able to handle the complexityof the Pats playbook.

3.) Mathews - Most instinctive of the group. Superior work ethic and awesome energy level. Physical and can get off blocks. Disruptive Strong and a Team Player. ST experience. However he is inexperienced/raw and lacks coverage experience.

4.) Everette Brown - a poor man's Cameron Winbley. Probably better suited to the 4-3.

5.) Maybin - A pass rusher. First step quickness that all elite pass rushers have. Not great against the run or in coverage. Not nearly the pass rusher that Groves was coming out of college,but has 2 years less of experience than Groves did.

6.) Barwin - Best athlete of the bunch. High energy and great first step quickness. RAW! RAW! and RAW! He is not instinctive, does not use his hands well and is pitiful setting the edge. While he is a good tackler, he has almost no experience in coverage. ST excellence! Will need at least 2 years to develop as a 3-4 end, boom or bust kind of guy.

7.) Kruger - Instinctive, high energy, good tackler, decent pass rusher,run defender and even has dropped into coverage. Has a lot of pass rushing moves. However he is 24 and slow, which does not jive with a team trying to get younger and faster.

I personally think that BB will find Mathews hard to pass up. However I also think Miami has their eyes on Mathews as well and may be willing to leapfrog New England for him.

 

[dryheat44]

In the "#23, #34, #47, #58" thread, the following names were put forward as OLB candidates at #23-34:

Brown, Everette
Barwin, Connor
Cushing, Brian
English, Larry
Kruger, Paul
Matthews, Clay
Sintim, Clint

That's an incredible number of possibilities at a hard-to-fill position -- and every single poster named at least one of them. So as a community, we believe that one of these guys is going to be a Patriot come April.

Yet 3-4 OLB conversion has been one of the very hardest positions for teams to draft for, with a slew of first-round disappointments. And if you look closely at the list above, I don't think there's a single player who has demonstrated both elite measurables AND an elite college career.

Anybody care to make the case for which players are most worth the first-round gamble?

Gamble? No, I don't think that's what the 23rd pick in the draft is for. Out of all the OLBs, I like Sintim the most. His explosion and change of direction numbers are pretty good, so I think that with some coaching he'd be able to be adequate-to-good in short zone coverage.

However, I would much rather take a CB or OT that we're fairly certain will contribute at #23 than gamble on greatness and chance whiffing. I'm still wrapped up in Post-combine evaluation, but OT Beatty is growing on me for a possible first round pick. I would also readily trade it for Peppers or for a #2 in '09 and #1 in '10 before taking a guy like Barwin, Maybin (who will get absolutely destroyed in the running game), or anybody else on the list.

 

[cstjohn17]

Gamble? No, I don't think that's what the 23rd pick in the draft is for. Out of all the OLBs, I like Sintim the most. His explosion and change of direction numbers are pretty good, so I think that with some coaching he'd be able to be adequate-to-good in short zone coverage.

However, I would much rather take a CB or OT that we're fairly certain will contribute at #23 than gamble on greatness and chance whiffing. I'm still wrapped up in Post-combine evaluation, but OT Beatty is growing on me for a possible first round pick. I would also readily trade it for Peppers or for a #2 in '09 and #1 in '10 before taking a guy like Barwin, Maybin (who will get absolutely destroyed in the running game), or anybody else on the list.

I am with you, others have set it as well. Unless one of the OLB is significantly better than Woods / Crable then round one should go to BPA or player with highest ceiling. I would consider every position to be in play for round one (excluding QB, K, P, LS, etc.). Regardless of the unit if a starter with probowl potential can be added to any unit then I would do it.

Some names that seem to jump out (names that in 3 years people will say "How did that guy last so long?" or based on my track record "Thank god we didn't draft that guy"
- Maualuga, Harvin, Wells, Andre Smith

Or go with plan B which always make sense, add a D lineman or offensive tackle:
- Beaty, Hood, Peria, Tyson Jackson, Britton

 

[patchick]

I am with you, others have set it as well. Unless one of the OLB is significantly better than Woods / Crable then round one should go to BPA or player with highest ceiling. I would consider every position to be in play for round one (excluding QB, K, P, LS, etc.). Regardless of the unit if a starter with probowl potential can be added to any unit then I would do it.

I'm certainly not assuming OLB at #23 either, fwiw. Having picks every dozen or so slots points to an intensely strategic draft, with a heavy emphasis on who you expect to be available next time up.

 

[bakes781]

I'm certainly not assuming OLB at #23 either, fwiw. Having picks every dozen or so slots points to an intensely strategic draft, with a heavy emphasis on who you expect to be available next time up.

Plus factoring in the depth at OLB in this draft it's very conceivable they can look elsewhere at #23 or decide to trade back or into 2010 draft.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I am with you, others have set it as well. Unless one of the OLB is significantly better than Woods / Crable then round one should go to BPA or player with highest ceiling. I would consider every position to be in play for round one (excluding QB, K, P, LS, etc.). Regardless of the unit if a starter with probowl potential can be added to any unit then I would do it.

Some names that seem to jump out (names that in 3 years people will say "How did that guy last so long?" or based on my track record "Thank god we didn't draft that guy"
- Maualuga, Harvin, Wells, Andre Smith

Or go with plan B which always make sense, add a D lineman or offensive tackle:
- Beaty, Hood, Peria, Tyson Jackson, Britton

How would you characterize Barwin if not a player with the highest ceiling?

That certainly does look like a list of players to extend your track record...

 

[mayoclinic]

How would you characterize Barwin if not a player with the highest ceiling?

That certainly does look like a list of players to extend your track record...

There are very few players at positions of need with a higher ceiling than Barwin who may be available at #23 - not that ceiling is the only criteria, but it's certainly one. Sean Smith and William Beatty are the obvious 2 other players who I see who have a potentially very high ceiling. I could see one of those 3 being a reasonable pick. But, on the other hand, there are a host of "safer" picks with more experience and perhaps a slightly lower ceiling who could be justified at that level as well.

As Patchick notes, it will probably be a very strategic draft with a keen eye on who might be available at the next pick. Only 10 teams pick between #23 and #34, 12 between #34 and #47, and 10 between #47 and #58. We've never had that kind of density of high picks before.

 

[mgteich]

There are a dozen DE or ILB's who might be draft in the first 35. And a couple of teams interested will get Taylor or Peppers or Lewis and no longer be as interested. Belichick should find someone he wants at 23 or 34 from the following list.

Curry
Cushing
Maualuga
Matthews
Laurinitis
Sintim (patsfans binkie)
Barwin (patsfans binkie)
Orakpo
Brown
Jackson
Maybin
English

We also should be able to get an interior lineman in the first two rounds.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

There are a dozen DE or ILB's who might be draft in the first 35. And a couple of teams interested will get Taylor or Peppers or Lewis and no longer be as interested. Belichick should find someone he wants at 23 or 34 from the following list.

Curry - Top 5
Cushing - Better 4-3 prospect
Maualuga - Better 4-3 prospect
Matthews - Better 4-3 prospect
Laurinitis - Better 4-3 prospect
Sintim (patfans binkie) -Woohoo binky!
Barwin (patsfans binkie) - Woohoo binky!
Orakpo - Top 10
Brown - Better 4-3 prospect
Jackson - Well he is a 3-4 DE
Maybin - Bust
English - Okay

We also should be able to get an interior lineman in the first two rounds.

Yup, there are some good interior OL available. The 1.68 10 yd split for Eric Wood is very interesting (though I'm wondering about the Combine's timer), pretty fast for a 5.19/40...

 

[goldenaleus]

I'd pass on Cushing:

Chiefs Draft Prospect: OLB BrianCushing - Arrowhead Pride


Senior Bowl

Even though by pretty much all accounts Cushing had a fantastic Senior Bowl this year, apparently the buzz in the stand was about his supplement use. Reports have said that Cushing spends thousands of dollars a month on nutritional supplements, which is not any indication of any illegal activity but has made scouts and personnel guys wonder if Cushing's ability is completely maxed out already.

 

[PatsAttack]

I really never liked Cushing before the draft, but the more I watch him the more he grows on me.

I know that the NFL network does all that hype on him but to be he just seems like a Patriot.

I would like to see the BPA taken in the first round then have OLB taken care of in the second round along with CB and S.

If they do wait until the second my immediate want is Larry English at 34 if he is avail.

I'm not sold on Connor Barwin, although he seems like a patriot type player to me he just might be a one year wonder and might not have the defensive intangibles to succeed in the BB defense, not to say that English has them.

 

[sg14]

Calling draft experts,,

Any intriguing 3rd round and later picks for these LB positions???