Michael Holley says that Pats and Browns are in hot pursuit of Ray Lewis

[supafly]

All valid points, and I agree he does act like an ass

The thing that I consider though, when looking at some of these guys is not how they played on their respective teams, but how would they fit in with BB's leadership--and abilities to make the raw talent better, and to perform at a higher level than they previously had.

So it's wasn't "just" Vrabel coming from PGH, it was Vrabel + BB
It wasn't "just" Moss coming from OAK, it was Moss + BB

So maybe Springs + BB, Lewis + BB, or Taylor + BB would actually be much different than they were because the level of playing would be expected higher. Now I know the argument works both ways, (D.Starks + BB) but you can't ALWAYS hit one out of the park. That said, Lewis is still an ass, but we are probably going to add some veteran talent, one way or another--so you have to look at some of the positives that maybe could be. And I'm just as upset as the next about Peppers, but THAT move could've jepordized the balance of the team / contracts/ leadership just as much, maybe even more than Lewis when you think of signing and appreciating our own

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Let's see.
Ray Lewis...
+ Decidely an upgrade to Bruschi at this juncture
+ Fills an area where the team NEEDS improvement
- A two year stopgap solution at best for a disruptive cap hit
- Not a good role model for the franchise (see Kraft, Myra)
- Not a good mentor for the cadre of young LBs
- Would consume disporoportionate effort on the HC's part 'managing' the player
- Very expensive vs potential contribution to team, contradicting BB's 'Value' metrics for those fans who pay any attention to BB's philosophy

 

[ScottieC]

Let's see.
Ray Lewis...
+ Decidely an upgrade to Bruschi at this juncture
+ Fills an area where the team NEEDS improvement
- A two year stopgap solution at best for a disruptive cap hit
- Not a good role model for the franchise (see Kraft, Myra)
- Not a good mentor for the cadre of young LBs
- Would consume disporoportionate effort on the HC's part 'managing' the player
- Very expensive vs potential contribution to team, contradicting BB's 'Value' metrics for those fans who pay any attention to BB's philosophy

-Someone in his posse (or Himself) could potentialy shoot and kill you.

 

[primetime]

- Not a good role model for the franchise (see Kraft, Myra)
- Not a good mentor for the cadre of young LBs
- Would consume disporoportionate effort on the HC's part 'managing' the player

While he may not be a good role model (obstructing justice and possibility participating in a double murder yourself isn't exactly a great thing), it's hard to argue with Lewis' leadership. If Rodney isn't brought back, Lewis would bring that fiery veteran presence. He can be a me-first player from time to time (I remember examples where he'd make an unbelievable play to swat a ball away... which was inches from being intercepted. Then dance in front of an incredulous Ed Reed who just got robbed by his own player), but to argue that he wouldn't be a good mentor or would be difficult to manage... not sure that'd be the case.

Whether he's a good fit or not for the defense, though, is another story altogether.

 

[okterrific]

How was he as a mentor for Adalius Thomas, or Suggs, or Scott? They seemed to survive playing with him.

 

[TripleOption]

I don't see it happening. Lewis is a seriuos upgrade over Tedy in ability, but if you look at the rest: They're about the same age, Tedy has got great respect in our locker room,

Trust me, Ray would have respect here. He's got a ring; say what you will about him, he always plays at maximum intensity. He's a leader on the field and a balls to the wall player.

Ray Lewis hates playing in a 3-4 where he has to take on guards, he's on record saying it. Why would we want him? Why would he want to play here?

I saw that, too. I immediately discounter Ray Lewis coming here, but never say never. Maybe he saw Mayo's success and decided he could do it, too.

 

[TripleOption]

Andto the critics saying he's on record of not wanting to play in a 3-4.. He played in a 3-4 for the past few years..

Not really. World of difference between Ryans system and BB's 3-4. Look at Cleveland or the NY Jets (last year) for a more similar system.

 

[Remix 6]

Let's see.
Ray Lewis...
+ Decidely an upgrade to Bruschi at this juncture
+ Fills an area where the team NEEDS improvement
- A two year stopgap solution at best for a disruptive cap hit
- Not a good role model for the franchise (see Kraft, Myra)
- Not a good mentor for the cadre of young LBs
- Would consume disporoportionate effort on the HC's part 'managing' the player
- Very expensive vs potential contribution to team, contradicting BB's 'Value' metrics for those fans who pay any attention to BB's philosophy

about your negatives
-agree..not long term solution but fills short term need
-not good role model? besides that one incident..Lewis hasnt caused trouble
-mentor..oh please hes the leader of 1 of the best defenses on a consistent basis. no doubt he makes people better and young LBs..he helped Thomas/Scott/Suggs and is big part of why they became as good as they did. He didnt need to teach a rookie ..they had guys already
-Ray Lewis is a coachable and very knowledgeable player like Randy Moss in terms of..if he sees something that needs coaching..he'll bring it up and give his opinion and what he sees and BB would respect that just like when Moss has told BB what should be done differently or which way to attack
-Expensive..yes but if the team is willing to spend $$ on him..no doubt they see him being a major contributor

 

[supafly]

How was he as a mentor for Adalius Thomas, or Suggs, or Scott? They seemed to survive playing with him.

Good point. And I'm not sure if it's fair or relevant to bring up his past, or something so far removed, else we could've done that w/ Moss, Dillon, etc. Who really knows exactly what went down that night? I can only assume if he was guilty our justice system would've gone after something as serious as murder. (now it sounds like I'm sticking up for the guy)

I would just be happy to have his football playing talent, whether or not he's a loudmouth etc, is a whole different story. I'm with the deal, considering that Vrabel's cap hit was approaching 5 mill, maybe we could sign him for only another 1-2 mill per. And yes, he would be a major upgrade. Last reports I heard BAL was offering 3/yrs 24 mill--and he's having problems with their front office to boot. I hadn't heard of these 4/yrs 38 mill that someone else was talking about, but I can only keep up so much

 

[Mogamedogz]

-Someone in his posse (or Himself) could potentialy shoot and kill you.

Actually... i think they knifed the guy(s). i could be wrong though.

I like Ray the player. He may be the greatest MLB ever to play the game (and im serious when I say that). However... I just don’t think it would be in our best interest to spend the kind of $$ on him that he would likely command. We need a premiere pass rusher and a serious upgrade @ CB. I think the $$ would be much better spent addressing those two areas and extending Vince.

 

[upstater1]

While he may not be a good role model (obstructing justice and possibility participating in a double murder yourself isn't exactly a great thing), it's hard to argue with Lewis' leadership. If Rodney isn't brought back, Lewis would bring that fiery veteran presence. He can be a me-first player from time to time (I remember examples where he'd make an unbelievable play to swat a ball away... which was inches from being intercepted. Then dance in front of an incredulous Ed Reed who just got robbed by his own player), but to argue that he wouldn't be a good mentor or would be difficult to manage... not sure that'd be the case.

Whether he's a good fit or not for the defense, though, is another story altogether.

As for the role model part, I'm less concerned by his ability to have his posse murder people than I am with his willingness to play his part in Belichick's 3-4. Look, people like Milloy and Law were highly effective for the Patriots though they groused somewhat about the way Belichick wanted them to play.

That's the problem right there. Junior Seau was a very nice fit for the Patriots, but at a point he too was unhappy with the way he was used. Yet they brought Junior back. The question is, what happens to Ray Lewis when Belichick takes him out of the game, the way he has taken every single other Patriot out of the game, including Adalius Thomas, Richard Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel, Wilfork, etc.? The only Patriot that isn't going to be taken out on defense is Mayo. He's in there for every play. Ray Lewis? Is he going to be happy when he gets taken out?

 

[spacecrime]

While he may not be a good role model (obstructing justice and possibility participating in a double murder yourself isn't exactly a great thing), it's hard to argue with Lewis' leadership.

Not hard to argue with his leadership at all. I don't want any young Pats LB emulating Ray Lewis. He is a negative role model, not a positive one.

Let him lead by example on the Jets.

I was happy when Favre went to the Jets, and I'm perfectly fine with Ray Lewis playing there.

 

[spacecrime]

He may be the greatest MLB ever to play the game (and im serious when I say that).

Not even top 5


1. **** Butkus
2. Harry Carson
3. Mike Singletary
4. Jack Lambert
5. Ted Hendricks
6. Sam Huff

I'm sure there are others I've forgotten. Ray Lewis is a great self-promoter and entertainer, and the media loves him, but he is a middle linebacker who cannot shed a block and can only make plays when others work to keep him free. Hardly great.

 

[primetime]

Not even top 5


1. **** Butkus
2. Harry Carson
3. Mike Singletary
4. Jack Lambert
5. Ted Hendricks
6. Sam Huff

I'm sure there are others I've forgotten. Ray Lewis is a great self-promoter and entertainer, and the media loves him, but he is a middle linebacker who cannot shed a block and can only make plays when others work to keep him free. Hardly great.

I think you're stretching a little here. Even if you'd put a couple guys ahead of him, there's no doubt he's in the top 5, probably in the top 3, and arguably the greatest. I'd rank him as the best ever. Lambert, Carson, and Singletary played on amazing teams in systems designed around them too, or at least systems where they could play.

Lewis was probably the most feared defender in the game for a span of 5-6 years, during which his team won a Super Bowl with a so-so offense. He continues to play at a high caliber to this day. I'm not arguing that those guys weren't great, I'm arguing that Lewis was better. Not that it matters. He's not the same guy he was in his 20s, but he's still feared for the way he plays and can be dominant at times.

edit:

I can only assume if he was guilty our justice system would've gone after something as serious as murder. (now it sounds like I'm sticking up for the guy)

Dany Heatley killed a teammate with reckless driving. He's a hockey player with a quarter of the name recognition of Ray Lewis, and still only got probation and community service, which involved giving "don't drive like a maniac" talks. And this was in Atlanta, so it's not like it happened in some hockey hub like Minneapolis, Detroit, or Toronto. Any one of us would've still been rotting in a cell. Don't underestimate celebrity.

The worst part of the whole thing is that even if Ray Lewis wasn't guilty of outright murder, he knows who was and the guys who got stabbed will never get justice.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Not even top 5


1. **** Butkus
2. Harry Carson
3. Mike Singletary
4. Jack Lambert
5. Ted Hendricks
6. Sam Huff

I'm sure there are others I've forgotten. Ray Lewis is a great self-promoter and entertainer, and the media loves him, but he is a middle linebacker who cannot shed a block and can only make plays when others work to keep him free. Hardly great.

Whoaaa.... Slow down now.

Lewis is one of the best defensive players (not just MLB's) in the history of the game and without question one of the greatest defensive leaders of all time. Love it or hate it, he plays with the kind of fire and emotion that makes everyone around him raise their level of play to new heights.

In his prime he had a nasty combination of speed, power, athletic ability, and a ridiculous football I.Q (dude is Belichick like in his film prep). Lewis may be the most complete middle linebacker ever; he excelled in rush and pass defense, and was the centerpiece for one the greatest defensive teams in the history of the league ('00 Ravens). He is the only player in the 20/20 club (20 sacks, 20ints) to have played his entire career at MLB.

As mentioned, he was without a doubt the most intimidating defensive game changer of this era, and it isn't even close. He was ferocious against the run. The Ravens did not allow a single 100 rusher in 51 consecutive games from 1998-2001, an amazing accomplishment.

9x Pro Bowler
7x All Pro
2x Defensive Player of the year
1x Super Bowl MVP

You're telling me that Ray isn't in the coversation for the best ever?? Come'on man... that's crazy talk!!!

 

[102 Pat]

I can't see Lewis coming here simply because he probably wouldn't be allowed to do that stupid pre-game intro dance...

 

[Holy Diver]

I'd rather have Derrick Brooks....

 

[spacecrime]

You're telling me that Ray isn't in the coversation for the best ever?? Come'on man... that's crazy talk!!!

You said he was the best MLB in the history of the NFL, and he isn't in the top 5 IMO.

He is in the conversation because of flamboyance and self-promotion, not because of actual deeds. He is the Joe Namath of LBs. Great rep with little to back it up except media fawning and hype.

The Ravens had a great defense. Giving cvredit to Lewis is wrong. Other players left in 2001, Lewis stayed. The D was never the same, indicating at least to me that there was a lot more to it than Lewis.

Credit that great rush defense to having two great DTs. Once they left, Lewis was left with a lot of talk and not much production.

Sorry, not even the top five MLB.

Carson
Butkus
Hendricks
Lambert
Singletary
Huff
probably others

 

[GroganCountry]

Not even top 5


1. **** Butkus
2. Harry Carson
3. Mike Singletary
4. Jack Lambert
5. Ted Hendricks
6. Sam Huff

I'm sure there are others I've forgotten. Ray Lewis is a great self-promoter and entertainer, and the media loves him, but he is a middle linebacker who cannot shed a block and can only make plays when others work to keep him free. Hardly great.

I can't stand Ray Lewis. And I think he might be slightly overrated. That said he is easliy in the top 5 MLB imo, probably top 3.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

he'll be 30 this year.. he's not young..

When the season starts Peppers will be 29 and Lewis will be 34. Considerably younger if you ask me.