Patfans Draft Forum mock thread -Feb 2009

[patchick]

1- #23 Alphonso Smith
2- #47 Jarron Gilbert
2- #58 Eric Wood
3- #89 Chip Vaughn
3- #97 Jonathan Casillas
4- #124 Lawrence Sidbury
4- #136 Kenny McKinley
5- #158 Augustus Parrish
5- #167 Joe Burnett
6- #192 Lee Robinson
7- #230 Thomas Morstead

Seneschal, I owe you one -- you just saved me a ton of time by doing my mock for me. I love a lot of this draft (though I suspect that in reality, some like Morstead will have to be taken a lot higher). Any quibbles I have come in the middle. E.g., I like Burnett but with A. Smith, Wheatley, Wilhite & Richardson in the fold, that's plenty of young CBs; I might look to somebody like a Devin Moore there. And I'm skeptical on Sidbury...so what we really need is a high #2 to plug in a Sintim or Barwin, replace Sidbury with a tight end, and life is good.

 

[mayoclinic]

With the recently updated rankings, here's another pre-Combine mock while I'm feeling a little giddy with Yates release.

23 - Jarron Gilbert: I expect him to continue his rise up the boards and will be helped by the Combine. There are some good DL in 2010, but this kid is the real deal and he's here now.

47 - I really want another late 1st/early second out of the Cassel trade. Barwin is my binky, but I've got to go with Juaquin Iglesias to replace Gaffney.

58 - Eric Woods: Hochstein is gone. Yates is gone. Neal is UFA after the season. This kid was wrestling with Raji and winning during the Senior Bowl game, he'll also push Koppen.

89 - Chip Vaughn: Nice big, playmaking Safety.

97 - Keenan Lewis: Big CB for FS.

124 - Christopher Owens: Pretty good CB for this deep in the draft.

136 - Augustus Parrish: He has the nasty attitude, and while he will struggle with speed off the edge, he has the tools to play four positions on the OL.

158 - Ryan Purvis: Glue fingered TE who can and will block.

167 - Keith Fitzhugh: One more big S for the mix.

192 - Lee Robinson: A second Gary Guyton-type LB.

230 - Lydon Murtha: Decent OT for this late in the draft.

Priority UDFA:
Lardarius Webb - playmaking small school CB
Thomas Morstead - Good Punter, over 50 punts downed inside the 20 in 4 years
Seth Olsen - Solid C/G
Robert Brewster - Solid T/G
Terrance Knighton - NT/DE candidate
Robert Francois - ILB prospect
Ian Johnson - 3rd down RB/KR/PR
Ryan Stanchek - Solid T/G
D.J. Boldin - Maybe Little Bro can duplicate the success at WR
Jason Boltus - Camp fodder QB with some potential
Chris Miller - If Morstead gets away grab this P
Zach Potter - Another Nebraska DE for Pepper
Stephen Hodge - Rodney Jr.
Colt Anderson - Solid FS
Ryan Mouton - Speedy and tough CB/FS/PR/KR/WR
Stanley Arnoux - ILB prospect
Jason Chery - WR/KR
Todd Boeckman - Camp fodder QB
Dan Skuta - ILB prospect
DeAngelo Willingham - Big, physical CB for S
Frank Summers - FB with good hands
Dobson Collins - Good deep threat, small school WR prospect
Dominick Goodman - Could be another D-Giv
Brit Miller - ILB prospect

Wow, looks like Jarron Gilbert has become everyone's "binky of the week" (Patchick and Seneschal2 have him going #47), but #23? That seems a bit high. Personally, I hope he shoots up to the 1st round, not to us but so that he pushes some other folks down to us.

There's no doubt he's an athletic specimen, but he has no experience playing 3-4 DE that I can see, and 23 seems a big reach. Tyson Jackson would be more reasonable, even though Gilbert may have more upside.

Here's a recent article on Gilbert, along with some popular youtube footage:

http://www.mercurynews.com/collegesports/ci_11726014?nclick_check=1
YouTube - Jarron Gilbert jumps out of pool

Again, I can see the logic of drafting a DE especially if we cut Green, and with the potential of Seymour leaving after 2009. But there is a ton of 3-4 DE talent coming out in the 2010 draft.

Otherwise, I like Iglesias but don't want to see us going WR in round 2. I like Eric Wood and would be thrilled with him at #89 (he won't last that long) but would rather see us go defense in the 2nd round. But I can't really argue with either pick, it's just preference.

 

[Seneschal2]

...in reality, some like Morstead will have to be taken a lot higher). Any quibbles I have come in the middle. E.g., I like Burnett but with A. Smith, Wheatley, Wilhite & Richardson in the fold, that's plenty of young CBs; I might look to somebody like a Devin Moore there. And I'm skeptical on Sidbury...so what we really need is a high #2 to plug in a Sintim or Barwin, replace Sidbury with a tight end, and life is good.

Life is always good when I agree with patchick -- and I do -- on all of your points.

As we know, w/ BB running the show, board maneuvering is always a possibility. And more importantly in this draft, an extra first, second, or third will allow him to succeed in his targetting. I remain very confident even now -- and that's w/o any Cassel compensation package. Life is indeed good.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Here is one with trades and using one comp pick; #97 for Samuel

Trade: Matt Cassel to the Vikes for #22 and #86

Trade: To KC #23 and #86 for T. Gonzales and #67 plus a 2nd rounder for 2010

#22 Sean Smith, SS, Ute
#47. Paul Kruger, OLB Ute
#58 Conner Barwin, OLB
#67. F Tupau , OT-G, Ore
#89 Chip Vaughn, SS, Wake
#97 Sharrod Martin, CB, Troy
#120. G Coffe, RB, Ala
#151, J FRantz, ILB, Fla AT
#189 Gano, P Fla ST
#217 A. Appleby, ILB, Va

This came to me in a dream.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

This came to me in a dream.

Must . . . resist . . . naughty . . . question . . .

 

[mayoclinic]

Must . . . resist . . . naughty . . . question . . .

My dreams have no place on this forum whatsoever.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

My dreams have no place on this forum whatsoever.

Why? Do they involve holding giraffes while filling bathtubs with brightly-colored power tools?

[This is part of one of an infinite number of answers to the age-old question, "How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb?" ]

 

[goldenaleus]

1- #23 Alphonso Smith - CB
2- #47 Ron Brace - DT
2- #58 Kraig Urbik - OG/OT
3- #89 Chip Vaughn - SS
3- #97 Brandon Gibson - WR
4- #124 Lawrence Sidbury - DE
4- #136 Bear Pasco - TE
5- #158 Victor Butler - OLB
5- #167 CJ Spillman - FS
6- #192 Cecil Newton - OG/LS
7- #230 Marquez Branson - HB/FB

 

[dryheat44]

OK...time to test out the new rankings....

1.1- #23 Alphonso Smith
2.2- #47 Juaquin Iglesias
3.2- #58 Connor Barwin (would like more picks here...also love Luigs and Delmas at this point)
4.3- #89 David Bruton
5.3- #97 Dorell Scott
6.4- #124 CJ Spillman
7.4- #136 Jasper Brinkley
8.5- #158 John Phillips
9.5- #167 Terrence Knighton
10.6- #192 Robert Brewster
11.7- #230 Ryan Durand

FA targets
Sammie Stroughter
Everette Pedescleaux
DeAndre Wright
Gerald Cadogan
Louis Ellis
Manuel Johnson
Antonio Appleby
Robert Francois
Ryan Stanchek
CJ Davis
Seth Olsen
Mike Teel
Rudy Carpenter
Marlon Lucky
Javorski Lane
Curtis Brinkley
Don Gronkowski
Aaron Clark

 

[p8ryts]

Well, it's about time! My pre-Combine picks (I dread pre-Combine selections), as all of the info gathered at the market is valuable (if properly applied). From the interviews and position drills, to some timed events, the info represents a final stage in the evaluation process. That said, what follows are some of my favorite prospects (not all), while some have left me hand-tied while remaining true to the thread's guideline's:

1- #23 Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest - I rank him as a late first, so going this early isn't too unreasonable. In addition, my #1 team need going into the draft is to add playmakers to the secondary. And with Smith arguably having the best ball skills and playmaking ability among all the CBs, this pick makes sense. There are other playmakers available later on -- but none on his level. His 21 career picks were no luck, as he added 3 more during Senior Bowl practices. The plan with Alphonso is for him to compete with a healthy Wheatley for the starting LCB position. Loser will be the first one in on all sub-packages. He's NFL-ready now to cover slot receivers, we'll see if he can beat out a very talented TW.

2- #47 Jarron Gilbert DE San Jose State - It's time to maintain the strength of the DL. Youtube aside, this player has tremendous potential as a 3-4 end.

2- #58 Eric Wood C Louisville - one of the several centers in this draft who could make the transition to guard. Wood was highly impressive at RG during Senior Bowl week, which translates nicely to a Koppen upgrade and Neal insurance pick. One of my favorite prospects.

3- #89 Chip Vaughn SS Wake Forest - two prospects from the same secondary/school is highly unusual, but Vaughn offers size and in-the-box skills that may prove valuable in the Pats D. Meriweather is a versatile player who could handle deep coverage responsibilities if Vaughn develops. Strong vs Free, Left vs Right, One vs Two -- whatever -- just upgrade the position.

3- #97 Jonathan Casillas OLB Wisconsin - will wait on his Combine numbers to see if he's healed from surgery. A fast, athletic, productive player who could transition to SS. Envision his coverage ability vs RBs and TEs as a sideline-to-sideline player. Will excel on ST while he learns (a position).

4- #124 Lawrence Sidbury DE Richmond - already has a strong array of pass rush moves. Impressive wingspan. Needs work at the POA vs the run -- but that's why he's a developmental prospect. Add him to the Pats current group and see who develops first. All edge rushers need time -- even the early picks.

4- #136 Kenny McKinley WR South Carolina - a highly productive and consistent receiver. Ignore the Spurrier connection. Knows how to run routes vs top competition -- which will be refreshing for a Pats rookie.

5- #158 Augustus Parrish OT Kent State - there's still a Kent St connection. Versatile, could project to OG also.

5- #167 Joe Burnett CB UCF 5-10 - yes, I'm doubling up on the Pats secondary. Burnett has exc ball skills as another playmaker. Speed may be an issue...we'll know soon. Same school as Asante -- with similar production.

6- #192 Lee Robinson OLB Alcorn State - my first official sleeper for the Pats, which is different than just a sleeper. Projects inside and will make the roster.

7- #230 Thomas Morstead P Southern Methodist - lest I forget. Impressive hang time and accurate directional skills make him a worthy gamble.

I like this one, Alphonso Smith and Eric Woods are two of my favorites coming out. I really like Woods to take the spot Yates had along with Hochstein's spot.

 

[AFPatsFan11]

What substances are you ingesting? Vrabel came out of Ohio State as a DE, and took several years to develop and convert to LB. Whateer his talents may be, Laurinaitis bears no resemblance to Vrabel whatsoever.

He came out as a DE, but if you take the time to look back at pre-draft evaluations of Vrabel many projected him to be too slow at DE, therefore too slow at coverage at OLB. They said he had the smarts and ability to handle the middle, with the slightly more limited coverage necessary. PITT took him in '97 with the vision at LB

 

[AFPatsFan11]

Mold Hill into Faulk....I could see considering molding Hill into a LenDale White type player but Kevin Faulk. Sorry I don't see it at all.

These are the players in this draft that have 3rd down back capability because the skills they demonstrated in college indicate they could possibly fill that role:

Jeremiah Johnson, Oregon (5-9, 208)
Mike Goodson, Texas A&M (6-0, 198)
Devin Moore, Wyoming (5-9, 191)
Kory Sheets, Purdue (5-11, 203)
Keegan Herring, Arizona State (5-10, 195)
Bernard Scott, Abilene Christian (5-11, 195)
Marcus Thigpen, Indiana (5-8, 198)

There's a good change Hill doesn't get drafted.

The only player height and weight wise on that list that compares to Faulk is Kory Sheets. And as a Buckeye fan I can tell you that Sheets is more primed to carry more than a 3rd down load, which is not the case for Hill who can break a run in spurts.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Wow, looks like Jarron Gilbert has become everyone's "binky of the week" (Patchick and Seneschal2 have him going #47), but #23? That seems a bit high. Personally, I hope he shoots up to the 1st round, not to us but so that he pushes some other folks down to us.

There's no doubt he's an athletic specimen, but he has no experience playing 3-4 DE that I can see, and 23 seems a big reach. Tyson Jackson would be more reasonable, even though Gilbert may have more upside.

Here's a recent article on Gilbert, along with some popular youtube footage:

http://www.mercurynews.com/collegesports/ci_11726014?nclick_check=1
YouTube - Jarron Gilbert jumps out of pool

Again, I can see the logic of drafting a DE especially if we cut Green, and with the potential of Seymour leaving after 2009. But there is a ton of 3-4 DE talent coming out in the 2010 draft.

Otherwise, I like Iglesias but don't want to see us going WR in round 2. I like Eric Wood and would be thrilled with him at #89 (he won't last that long) but would rather see us go defense in the 2nd round. But I can't really argue with either pick, it's just preference.

Seymour and Warren didn't play any 3-4 either. Gilbert or Jackson, I'd take Gilbert at this point in the process (we'll know a little more after the Combine and Pro-days); whichever one NE took would have a year to develop behind four veterans who've played pretty well throughout their careers, giving this kid a chance to get stronger and work on his technique against some pretty good OL.

Who's cutting Green? Say "NO" to drugs!

No Iglesias in the second? Okay, I was seriously considering Nicks at #23.

Your Mercury News link isn't working, but this is one I found: http://www.mercurynews.com/snowreports/ci_11726014

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Hey Box. Do you think we consider Eben Britton - T - Arizona if he's on the board
at 23? Seems like a great kid with talent. Mayock really likes the Wood kid from Louisville. But, would it give us more flexibility to have a T Britton and then slide Kaczur inside to
replace S.Neal.

I'm not as sure as Dryheat, I thought he looked good in their bowl game, but I've been reading critiques that seem to consider him a bit heavy-legged. Either way, I don't see him as a significant upgrade for Kaczur or Light.

 

[BPF]

The only player height and weight wise on that list that compares to Faulk is Kory Sheets. And as a Buckeye fan I can tell you that Sheets is more primed to carry more than a 3rd down load, which is not the case for Hill who can break a run in spurts.

I think they all do, Faulk is 5-8, 202. How do you know what Sheets wants to do. I think he will do anything he can to make himself a valuable player who will fit any role the team that drafts him has in mind so he can stay in the league.

You have some sort of man crush with Hill. I think he may be worth a late round shot or as an UDFA because he does have some talent but he has some durability and weight questions as well. He reminds me of Ron Dayne, power wise, but with more lateral quickness so that's a positive. He does have quick feet and good vision but although he has improved in the passing game, his hands and blocking still need lots of work. To me Hill screams short yardage back.

 

[Richter]

I'm not as sure as Dryheat, I thought he looked good in their bowl game, but I've been reading critiques that seem to consider him a bit heavy-legged. Either way, I don't see him as a significant upgrade for Kaczur or Light.

Totally agree, Britton is not athletic enough to be a first round talent. If we're going to take a tackle outside of the top four elite group, give me William Beatty.

 

[dryheat44]

Well, as I learned from the first go-around, without trading, I'm not happy with the drafts. So I'm trading. I'm also hoping they sign either Leigh Bodden or Bryant McFadden to compete at CB.

Trade #1: Pats trade Matt Cassell and a fifth round pick (#158) to Tampa Bay for their second (#50) and third (#81) round picks, a second rounder in 2010, and TE Alex Smith.

Trade #2: Pats trade their first round pick (#23) to Chicago for their second round pick (#49) and first and fourth round picks in 2010.

2.47 One the clock trade. Patriots trade #47, #89, and #192 to Green Bay for #41 and #105.

Patrick Chung S Oregon. I think this is probably a player Belichick is targeting. Now seems to be a good spot to nab him.

2.49 Jonathan Luigs C/G Arkansas. Solid Technician with a bit of nasty. Highly intelligent in the classroom, and three time Rimington finalist.

2.50 Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma. Seems to be among the most polished receivers in the draft, coming from a Pro-system.

2.58 Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati. Read the discussion boards. Highest-ranked OLB remaining. TE and corner are tempting...hopefully at least one of the next cluster will be available within a small trade up of our next pick. TE is less of a need with the acquisition of Alex Smith.

3.97 It appears all the starting-caliber CBs are gone. So the options are to reach for one like Owens or Burnett, taking a TE like Nelson, or maybe even Pat White as a playmaker. There's a large group of safeties that seem to be of good value right now, but I don't think I can ignore the two 3-4 DE candidates which are a slight reach...Dorel Scott or Corvey Irvan. Assuming his knee checks out OK, I'll go with the bigger player with the better pedigree. That's Dorel Scott DE Clemson.

4.105 Shawn Nelson TE Southern Miss. We'll see how he does at the combine, but at this spot it's worth finding out if he can be at least as good as Ben Watson after spending a year on Special Teams.

4.124 Jasper Brinkley ILB South Carolina. I think it's worth the gamble to see if he can resume being the two-down snot-knocker he was before his knee injury. If Matt Shaughnessy shows some fluidity at the Combine, I'd be tempted to put him here as a conversion project.

4.136 Joe Burnett CB Central Florida. I don't think he'll ever be an outside corner, but given Wheatley's injury history and his serious return skills, I'll give Burnett the edge over Owens here.

5.167 Don Carey CB Norfolk St. I have higher-ranked players here, but since our primary CB need seems to be on the outside, I'll take a shot with the small school kid with a bit more height. This is a "dare to be great" pick, and I love Carey's potential.

7.230 Terrence Knighton NT Temple. No explanation warranted, I don't think.

30 UDFA Targets..Hopefully we can sign 8-10:

Robert Brewster OT Ball St
Gerald Cadogan OT Penn St
Sammie Stroughter WR Oregon St
Everette Pedescleaux DE Northern Iowa
Louis Ellis NT Shaw
London Fryar CB Western Michigan
DeAndre Wright CB New Mexico
Antonio Appleby ILB Virginia
Aaron Clark ILB Virginia
Robert Francois ILB Boston College
Ryan Durand G Syracuse
Seth Olsen G Iowa
Ryan Stanchek G/T West Virginia
Mike Teel QB Rutgers
Rudy Carpenter QB Arizona St
Johnny Williams LB Kentucky
Alex Fletcher S Stanford
Brandon Swain OLB West Texas A&M
Curtis Brinkley RB Syracuse
Marlon Lucky RB Nebraska
Javorski Lane RB Texas A&M
Rodney Fergason RB New Mexico
Trimaine Goddard S North Carolina
Tyrell Hebert S Toledo
Davon Drew TE East Carolina
Don Gronkowski TE Maryland
Rylan Reed OT Texas Tech
Kahlil Bell RB UCLA
Demonte' Bolden DE Tennessee
John Gill DE Northwestern

 

[AFPatsFan11]

How do you know what Sheets wants to do. I think he will do anything he can to make himself a valuable player who will fit any role the team that drafts him has in mind so he can stay in the league.

You have some sort of man crush with Hill.

BPF- before you get too caught up with your personal attacks and rhetorical questions why don't you review what i said. i never once said Sheets would want to be a third down back, but said as a Buckeye fan that he would excel at an every day back. As far as Hill goes, little difference between man crush and understanding his style of play. Marion Barber was pretty large with his size as a 3rd down back, but like I said if Hill could cut some weight (not much 10-15 pounds max) then his versatility and footwork would increase.

 

[mayoclinic]

He came out as a DE, but if you take the time to look back at pre-draft evaluations of Vrabel many projected him to be too slow at DE, therefore too slow at coverage at OLB. They said he had the smarts and ability to handle the middle, with the slightly more limited coverage necessary. PITT took him in '97 with the vision at LB

That's not the question. You said Vrabel came out as a "MLB" and that Laurinaitis would be a younger version of him. Vrabel came out as a DE conversion project to 3-4 OLB. Laurinaitis is a 3 year starter at MLB fitting into a 4-3 scheme. Vrabel was a rusher first at OSU and set school records at the time. Laurinaitis is a totally different player.

If you like Laurinaitis that's fine ... he's not my pony, but he has a lot of good points to him. But where the similarity to Vrabel (other than coming from OSU) comes from escapes me.

Last year at this time a lot of people noted similarities between Gholston and Vrabel - both OSU DE's, looking at conversion to 3-4 OLB, Gholston having broken Vrabel's school sack record. I guess that means that Laurinaitis must have a lot of similarities to Gholston in his game.

 

[AFPatsFan11]

That's not the question. You said Vrabel came out as a "MLB" and that Laurinaitis would be a younger version of him. Vrabel came out as a DE conversion project to 3-4 OLB. Laurinaitis is a 3 year starter at MLB fitting into a 4-3 scheme. Vrabel was a rusher first at OSU and set school records at the time. Laurinaitis is a totally different player.

If you like Laurinaitis that's fine ... he's not my pony, but he has a lot of good points to him. But where the similarity to Vrabel (other than coming from OSU) comes from escapes me.

My apologies must have not been clear, I made that comment with the end result.

He did come out as a DE and tried the Gholston experiment, but as seen now possessed the traits of a MLB. MY intended main comparison is very similar in speed coming out, their smarts, and ability to make timely plays. Both very consistent players