Cassel's New Home???

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

It is like some of the forum "wise dudes" here thinking that Gonzales is only worth a fourth rounder. So we do it too.

How about at 14.5 sacks and 5 FF, some on this site say Peppers is overrated and why should we go after him? Your point in your statement exactly. It's supply and demand. Pass rushers are at a premium.

Gonzalez 'is' only worth a fourth rounder; Green Bay offered a third last season, but no one else was willing to go that high for an aging receiver who is trying to dictate to his Front Office.

Peppers has been manhandled by RTs such as Brandon Gorin and Tom Ashworth. Folks choose to believe Peppers is talking about New England when he talks about a 3-4, but Miami, Dallas, and San Diego are all 3-4 teams who can be expected to contend for a playoff berth next season. Dallas and San Diego use a version of the 3-4 more conducive to Peppers' game.

Peppers bounced back from 2.5 sacks in 2007, but do note he had 3 sacks against Oakland and 2 against Detroit and Green Bay - that's half his sacks against struggling teams. In 2006 he had 13 sacks, 3 against Minnesota (6-10) and Tampa Bay (4-12), 2 against Baltimore (13-3, anyone recall what was happening on their OL that season?) and Atlanta (7-9). In 2005 he had 10.5 sacks, 3 against Tampa Bay (with their struggling O-line) and against Dallas (9-7) (with their struggling O-line). 2004 he had 11, 2 sacks each against four teams KC (7-9), Arizona (6-10), Oak (5-11), and SF (2-14). You'd expect him to have more sacks against struggling teams, but he just reads as streaky to me.

Compare Peppers to everyone's gold standard, Demarcus Ware: in four seasons he's had 8, 11.5, 14, and 20 sacks. Last season he had three 3 sack games, STL, SEA, & NYG, but he only had two games with no sacks - big numbers against struggling teams, but consistent over the season. Peppers had 6 games with no sacks. For the money he will want, he's not selling himself for me.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

I suspect what the rest of the league 'sees' is a guy who hadn't played since high school and, after being thrust into the role of filling Brady's shoes, was surprisingly poised and smart--but like most QBs, showing brilliance only in brief flashes.

"Brief flashes?" Unlike Derek Anderson, whom so many like for a comparison, Cassel didn't peak and fade during the season, he was still improving in week 17.

There are questions about him many GMs will be asking themselves, but when you look at how poorly the O-line was playing before Neal came back, the struggling running game, Cassel's own progression, and the way McDaniels opened up the game plan a little more each game, you can't help but believe this kid has what it takes to lead a franchise.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

I didn't know that the going price to trade up from the 20th pick was only a 3rd and 7th to get a top 5 pick.

Boy that is sure cheap. Where do the Pats go to do that? Oh the Lions got a steal according to you. What a fantistic deal for them. I bet they'd do that again.

I'm sure the Pats can move up to the #1 pick with their 23rd pick and a 3rd and make it a 5th, instead of the 7th.

What a fantastic deal.

Are you trying to be ignorant on purpose? The Lions have an extra 1st rounder, #20 that they acquired from Dallas. That is WHY I mentioned the Roy Williams trade. That means they can offer a package based on pick #20 for Cassel. I think you're the only who thinks that the Pats would demand the #1 overall pick for Cassel.

 

[patchick]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

I didn't know that the going price to trade up from the 20th pick was only a 3rd and 7th to get a top 5 pick.

Boy that is sure cheap. Where do the Pats go to do that? Oh the Lions got a steal according to you. What a fantistic deal for them. I bet they'd do that again.

I'm sure the Pats can move up to the #1 pick with their 23rd pick and a 3rd and make it a 5th, instead of the 7th.

What a fantastic deal.

I have made a real effort to understand this post, but I'm coming up empty. Are you suggesting that what Dallas did was "trade up" from #20 using their 3rd and 7th to get "a top 5 pick" in Williams? But...

- You can't nearly equate the value of a former high pick whose team is looking to dump him with the same pick in the upcoming draft.

- Williams wasn't a top 5 pick to begin with.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Detriot has a boat load of picks this year (and they need them). I think a fair trade would be #20 and #65 (first pick in the 3rd round) for Cassel. That would still leave Detroit with the #1 Overall, #33, and Dallas' 3rd rounder. The only catch would be is Detriot willing to shell out big money for new contracts to both Cassel and the #1 overall pick? That is alot of dough. If I was the Detriot GM (and I think that we can all agree that I would have done a better job that Matt millen), Before I would make the Cassel trade, I would first try and shop the #1 pick to move down to maybe SF at #10 and pick up some more 2nd round picks.

The problem with this is nobody wants to pay #1 overall money anymore, especially to unproven underclassmen QBs, Miami was smart in taking Long last year, and I bet that if they have to stay at #1 Detriot will do the same and go OT.

But I think that no matter what, it would be almost impossible for Detriot to shell out #1 overall money and pay Cassel at the same time.

 

[patchick]

But I think that no matter what, it would be almost impossible for Detriot to shell out #1 overall money and pay Cassel at the same time.

For some teams it would be, but IIRC the Lions have over $30 million in cap space.

 

[VJCPatriot]

But I think that no matter what, it would be almost impossible for Detriot to shell out #1 overall money and pay Cassel at the same time.

Detroit has $29M in cap space for 2009.
FOX Sports Boards - 2009 NFL Team Salary Cap Numbers

I'm assuming that if they trade for Cassel they will renogotiate him to a cap friendly multi-year deal. So yes they do have enough cap room to sign their #1 pick and pay Cassel as well as have enough left over to make other moves.

 

[patchick]

Detroit has $29M in cap space for 2009.
FOX Sports Boards - 2009 NFL Team Salary Cap Numbers

To square this w/the number I offered, I *think* the $29M figure included Leigh Bodden.

 

[VJCPatriot]

To square this w/the number I offered, I *think* the $29M figure included Leigh Bodden.

Fair enough. Either way, it seems pretty clear to me that they CAN afford to make a move for Cassel and sign their draft picks if they want to. The only question is if they are interested enough in Cassel and whether they will offer a rich enough package to get the deal done. Detroit is not the only possible suitor.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

I suspect what the rest of the league 'sees' is a guy who hadn't played since high school and, after being thrust into the role of filling Brady's shoes, was surprisingly poised and smart--but like most QBs, showing brilliance only in brief flashes.

Personally if I were the GM of a team like the Vikes, I'd spend a #1 on him if I had completely given up on my [still] young quarterback. Then again, part of my opinion on Cassel is influenced by my total surprise that we almost managed to make the playoffs after the worst case scenario happened on Sept. 7. You would think most GMs and coaches are going to be rating him based on nothing more than cold hard analysis and salary considerations.

Brief flashed? Did you actually watch the Pats this year? Cassel improved continuously throughout the year. There wasn't "brief flashes". You might be confusing Cassel's early performances with how poor the O-line played.

Yes, they are going to rate him on cold hard analysis and salary considerations. And anyone who breaks down his play objectively would say that he improved on a week to week basis despite as well as because of the rest of the offense. Cassel isn't going to be looking to break the bank here with a long term deal with a team he goes to. He's not gonna be asking for Brady or Manning money.

Cassel is better than any of the QBs coming out and, except for possibly Garcia, is a better QB than any on the market.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Detriot has a boat load of picks this year (and they need them). I think a fair trade would be #20 and #65 (first pick in the 3rd round) for Cassel. That would still leave Detroit with the #1 Overall, #33, and Dallas' 3rd rounder. The only catch would be is Detriot willing to shell out big money for new contracts to both Cassel and the #1 overall pick? That is alot of dough. If I was the Detriot GM (and I think that we can all agree that I would have done a better job that Matt millen), Before I would make the Cassel trade, I would first try and shop the #1 pick to move down to maybe SF at #10 and pick up some more 2nd round picks.

The problem with this is nobody wants to pay #1 overall money anymore, especially to unproven underclassmen QBs, Miami was smart in taking Long last year, and I bet that if they have to stay at #1 Detriot will do the same and go OT.

But I think that no matter what, it would be almost impossible for Detriot to shell out #1 overall money and pay Cassel at the same time.

Detroit doesn't have to keep the Nr. 1 pick. They "might" be able to deal down and get a couple of those picks they lost in the Cassel(hypothetical) trade. Teams fall in love with qb's. And, if some team gets the hots/heavy's for Matthew Stafford. They can trade with Detroit. You might say that's crazy. But, look what the Giants gave up for Eli.

 

[My2Cents]

Per GBN site

There is a debate in places like Detroit and Kansas City, for example, which have the first and third picks respectively at the 2009 draft, whether it would be better to trade for a proven QB like Cassel or take an unproven prospect in the draft. Other teams that might be interested in trading for Cassel include Minnesota, san Francisco, and Chicago.


I want San Fran #1 and Clements CB.

Can We get a pick and a player if so who do you want from each team???

I'm doubting that the Pats can get both a player and a top pick. Hell, I'm doubting that they will get more than one pick.

Regardless of actual value, I think the Pats will be more than happy to settle for a #1 and not attempt to scare away potential trade partners by playing hard ball with them.

With that said, I think The Texans are a very strong possibility @ #15.
With Matt Schaub due a 10 million dollar raise, Cassel is a bargain @ 14.

I, also, believe that the Lions would be reluctant to give up a #1. But their
2nd and 3rd pick combined offers similar value.

What happens with Vince Young, Kerry Collins and Derek Anderson will factor into what they will do. Anderson, in particular, looks like he can be had for a #3 (or may be cut).

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

Are you trying to be ignorant on purpose? The Lions have an extra 1st rounder, #20 that they acquired from Dallas. That is WHY I mentioned the Roy Williams trade. That means they can offer a package based on pick #20 for Cassel. I think you're the only who thinks that the Pats would demand the #1 overall pick for Cassel.

No, I was pointing out the stupidity of the Lions Front Office. They draft a WR with a top 5 pick; and then trade him for 20th, a 3rd rounder and and a 7th rounder. And you somehow think the Lions got a steal. That is the reason the Lions are always drafting in the first five.

Incompetence!!

If you want a top OL tackle, like a Jonathan Ogden, or a can't miss DT or DE like Richard Seymour, or a franchise QB like Peyton Manning, how can you draft one with a #20? You can't. You must trade up, and the price to do so is awfully cheap; a mere 3rd and 7th, according to you and Lions Front Office. You belong working for the Lions.

Mr. Belichick got more than that for moving down from 7th to 10th last year.

Incompetence!!!

 

[JoeShmoe]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

Brief flashed? Did you actually watch the Pats this year? Cassel improved continuously throughout the year. There wasn't "brief flashes". You might be confusing Cassel's early performances with how poor the O-line played.

Yes, they are going to rate him on cold hard analysis and salary considerations. And anyone who breaks down his play objectively would say that he improved on a week to week basis despite as well as because of the rest of the offense. Cassel isn't going to be looking to break the bank here with a long term deal with a team he goes to. He's not gonna be asking for Brady or Manning money.

Cassel is better than any of the QBs coming out and, except for possibly Garcia, is a better QB than any on the market.

Whilst I agree with what you say, as a fan of a.n other team you could quite legitimately make the argument that he struggled against good defences (SD, Pittsburgh etc) and we had a soft schedule. You could also say he played with HOF receivers. Note that's not what I think personally but go read other teams boards and that's how he is generally perceived

He is a risk for any team having only played one season - and for that reason I think we are lucky if we get anything more than a 2nd round 2009 / conditional 2010 -- UNLESS there's a bidding war and someone like the Vikes trades him for the #19 and a 3rd

 

[Wretch]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

No, I was pointing out the stupidity of the Lions Front Office. They draft a WR with a top 5 pick; and then trade him for 20th, a 3rd rounder and and a 7th rounder. And you somehow think the Lions got a steal. That is the reason the Lions are always drafting in the first five.

Incompetence!!

If you want a top OL tackle, like a Jonathan Ogden, or a can't miss DT or DE like Richard Seymour, or a franchise QB like Peyton Manning, how can you draft one with a #20? You can't. You must trade up, and the price to do so is awfully cheap; a mere 3rd and 7th, according to you and Lions Front Office. You belong working for the Lions.

Mr. Belichick got more than that for moving down from 7th to 10th last year.

Incompetence!!!

In the Lions defense. Teams seldom get much for an average performer at best, under achiever at worst, like Williams. He has a ton of talent but it hasn't really showed up on the field. Only good QBs and HOFers in their prime get traded for first round picks. Considering Williams lack of production last year and his potential for distraction the Lions did the best they could.

Teams seem to be willing to give up more for draft picks than players.

Oh and by the way I think the Pats got franchise QB a "little" later than 20. Also Joe Montana was a 3rd rounder, and Dan Marino was in the post 20 range also.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

Re: Cassell's New Home???

for the lions #20 and #33 picks......done

You're selling him short. The Pats got the 14th pick from the Bills for an aging Bledsoe.