The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One

[scout]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

No, that's not the question, and it never has been. What is so difficult about this?

Brady ? tradeable

It's never been about one qb being better then the other, no one has argued that point. Some posts may have compared first year's stats of each other, thus my "I don't know, I don't care answer to the above questions. Are you seriously asking if Cassel is a better qb then Brady?
My whole contention from post one:
1. What would a team trade for Brady (this assumes he passes a physical).
2. Reasoning for this option: IMO, a trade could bring 3 defensive starters (I believe defense wins championships), and Cassel will be a very good qb who is younger then Brady, even tho, he is no Tom Brady.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

It's never been about one qb being better then the other, no one has argued that point. Some posts may have compared first year's stats of each other, thus my "I don't know, I don't care answer to the above questions. Are you seriously asking if Cassel is a better qb then Brady?
My whole contention from post one:
1. What would a team trade for Brady (this assumes he passes a physical).
2. Reasoning for this option: IMO, a trade could bring 3 defensive starters (I believe defense wins championships), and Cassel will be a very good qb who is younger then Brady, even tho, he is no Tom Brady.

Look, I don't understand why you and Hoodie feel the need to ignore the obvious, but I'll try one last time......

It doesn't make a damned bit of difference what a team would trade for Brady if he passes a physical, because he won't be able to pass a physical in time for it to matter. The team will have to franchise Cassel and move his (or, theoretically, Brady's) contract before training camp. They can't sign Cassel to a multi-year deal for starter's money without completely destroying Brady's trade value.

Furthermore, if they want to be able to sign more than $5 million in players, the trade needs to be made before that can be done. That means that the trade needs to be made while free agency is still worth participating in.

In other words, even if it's only due to current circumstances and not due to the reality that Belichick isn't stupid enough to even ponder such an idiotic move seriously, Brady ? tradeable.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

The question is not was Brady better in 2007 than Cassel was in 2008. The question is who will be better in 2009-2015. A Brady without an ACL & MCL or Cassel with more experience.

Do you read the posts that you're criticizing? If you'd actually checked what I was responding to, then you'd realize that no, the question was what caused the Patriots to be 5 games better in 2007 than 2008.

 

[aluminum seats]

As the original poster of the first thread that dared raise the question of whether there was any scenario where the Pats might trade Tom Brady, I thought I might chime in again.

I’m been alternatively amused and impressed by this thread. Amused by the two types of posters who won’t have anything to do with the discussion: the steady stream of one-off posters who throw in a tired one-liner (“yeah, Brady sucks,” “this thread is so stupid!” etc. etc.) and the posters who say the same thing and declare “I’m done with this thread!” only to return again and again to post. And impressed by those posters who have continually tried to have a discussion against all that. Having sat back for awhile, a couple of points have occurred to me:

First, and this has been repeated an nauseum by the pro-discussion posters, but it doesn’t seem to sink it, so I’ll say it again, NOBODY IS SAYING BRADY SHOULD BE TRADED. Sorry for the caps, but it’s just hilarious how many times there have been posts with phrases like “those of who want to trade Brady…..” NO. The camps are those who want to discuss anything and everything Patriot, and those who don’t.

A note to those of you who are in the “anti-discussion” camp. There have been many, many threads on this site that I thought were silly, pointless, or otherwise ill-conceived. You know what I did with them? I ignored them and read something else. Sounds crazy, I know. But you are under no obligation to post again and again in a thread where you find the central premise silly. In fact, I find it strange you do. But to each his own. If you DO want to continue to post, I’d recommend something for your own asake……RELAX. There is a bizarre amount of anger found in the anti-discussion posts…..you know you are. I mean this sincerely—take it easy. You’ll live longer.

Now, to the discussion at hand. Way back in the day when I started this, there were a couple of major issues at play, and they remain: How is Brady coming along, and what will the ultimate effect of his major surgery be? And what is the potential upside of Cassel? And if the answers to those two questions (the former of which nobody here knows, the latter we can all speculate, although Bill Belichick’s opinion is in another stratosphere) lead in a certain direction, what could be done about it? As I put it in a later post, how can the Patriots best position themselves as the team of the next decade?

Good questions, and fun to think and talk about. Tough, too….small sample size with Cassel. Although I’ll end with this……essentially all have conceded that Cassel can never match Brady, because while maybe Matt’s shown some flashes, look what a drop-off it’s been since last year’s record-breaking pace. Well……

In Brady’s last 7 games, the Pats averaged 26.6 points per game. In Cassel’s last 7 games, in what was his rookie year (since high school!) the Pats averaged…….35.4 points per game.

 

[swheeler23]

My question is...If Brady were traded would he go? name two good teams the Patriots beat? They needed to beat one of the following teams, Indy, Pitts, or Chargers. They couldnt do it.Yes the beat the Cardinals , who look like they went on vacation that week.

 

[BradyManny]

Good questions, and fun to think and talk about. Tough, too….small sample size with Cassel. Although I’ll end with this……essentially all have conceded that Cassel can never match Brady, because while maybe Matt’s shown some flashes, look what a drop-off it’s been since last year’s record-breaking pace. Well……

In Brady’s last 7 games, the Pats averaged 26.6 points per game. In Cassel’s last 7 games, in what was his rookie year (since high school!) the Pats averaged…….35.4 points per game.

:bricks:

3 of those games in Brady's stats were playoff games against elite defenses. Most of Cassel's games were against horrible defenses. Don't be an idiot and stir shyt up for for the sake of it.

 

[JSn]

:bricks:

3 of those games in Brady's stats were playoff games against elite defenses. Most of Cassel's games were against horrible defenses. Don't be an idiot and stir shyt up for for the sake of it.

Seriously dude, did someone steal your TFB poster or are you running out of lube?

 

[BradyManny]

Seriously dude, did someone steal your TFB poster or are you running out of lube?

Are you kidding me dude? You've been a Patriots fan for less than one thousand days, you've developed a blind obsession of Matt Cassel that rivals anything anyone here has on Brady, and you're calling me out for interrupting this orgy of idiocy with some facts and sensibility? I appreciate you because you are a good poster, generally, but you, like God in Grey Hoodie and a couple others, have turned into absolute moronic trolls, are embarassing yourselves and Patriots fans with this ignorant and asinine discussion. If you want to be left alone to live in your stupid dream-world where trades like this happen, congratulations, I'll leave you alone.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

There's another option that people seem to pointedly ignore: the idea that O'Connell might actually be ready to start next year. After all, the Patriots' 2006 depth chart at QB was (1) Brady, (2) Cassel, (3) ---.

 

[BradyManny]

There's another option that people seem to pointedly ignore: the idea that O'Connell might actually be ready to start next year. After all, the Patriots' 2006 depth chart at QB was (1) Brady, (2) Cassel, (3) ---.

Thank you.

If people want to make the option that Brady is not the long term option anymore, fine. I have said in other threads O'Connell was drafted for a reason. If Brady's not healthy, they cut him or he retires. You can't trade a guy who isn't valuable, and if he is healthy, you wouldn't trade him. End of story, end of discussion, anything else is seriously embarrassing fanboy crap.

 

[mtbykr]

The fact that this thread is so intense just baffles me. For me, it really boils down to this: If Brady is healthy enough to be traded, that means he's healthy enough to play. Why on earth would we trade a healthy brady away instead of play him? Cassel played better than we expected this year (at least for me) but he should not even be in the same conversation as Brady....you people act as if TB is nearing the end of his career. TB behind center is the best option the pats have for winning....period!

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

There's another option that people seem to pointedly ignore: the idea that O'Connell might actually be ready to start next year. After all, the Patriots' 2006 depth chart at QB was (1) Brady, (2) Cassel, (3) ---.

I find it unlikely that the Patriots would get rid of BOTH Brady and Cassel. But if you theory is that they would trade both, I guess that is feasible.

 

[JSn]

Are you kidding me dude? You've been a Patriots fan for less than one thousand days, you've developed a blind obsession of Matt Cassel that rivals anything anyone here has on Brady, and you're calling me out for interrupting this orgy of idiocy with some facts and sensibility? I appreciate you because you are a good poster, generally, but you, like God in Grey Hoodie and a couple others, have turned into absolute moronic trolls, are embarassing yourselves and Patriots fans with this ignorant and asinine discussion. If you want to be left alone to live in your stupid dream-world where trades like this happen, congratulations, I'll leave you alone.

Ok, so you're fanhood tenure is greater than mine. Congrats.

I'm not a pro-trade-Brady poster, but I am a pro-open-minded discussion poster. I don't have a blind obsession with Matt Cassel. I supported Bill's move early on and he wasn't wrong (surprising).

And your comments are the embarrassing ones. They show no sense of calm or sensibility. This thread could have been much shorter and useful with actual discussion. You may have a good argument, but opening it with calling someone a moron has about the same chance of being heard Al Davis phoning Bill with an offer to coach the Raiders.

Matt is not as good a QB as TFB. Not yet. Could he be? It's ridiculous to think you can make that argument. It's extremely unlikely, but it's equally as unlikely that a QB with 4 SB appearances and numerous NFL records would get drafted at #199 overall.

My only point is that Tom is a known quantity who could win us more SB's, possibly. Matt is becoming a known quantity and is five years younger than Tom. Both (healthy) could yield the tools in trade to build the team for the future. A healthy Tom yields more of those tools.

I'm not advocating we trade him. I'm trying to talk about the value of trading him and making this the jump-off to the next QB of the Pats as oppose to waiting until he retires. I just want some sound discussion and educated opinions on both sides of the fence.

The likeliest thing (Cassel traded, Tom stays, Kevin trains) isn't the only thing. That's why I think it's worth discussing other possibilities. The people yelling and screaming about idiots add nothing and aren't doing a whole lot to make the fanbase look impressive either.

I'm a fan of the Patriots and anticipate being one after Tom is gone, however he leaves. I just want to talk about the what if's and the why or why not's. Why is this considered Trollish behaviour?

 

[aluminum seats]

Thank you.

If people want to make the option that Brady is not the long term option anymore, fine. I have said in other threads O'Connell was drafted for a reason. If Brady's not healthy, they cut him or he retires. You can't trade a guy who isn't valuable, and if he is healthy, you wouldn't trade him. End of story, end of discussion, anything else is seriously embarrassing fanboy crap.

Well, the "fanboy" thing doesn't really make sense for the pro-discussion camp.....we're just batting ideas around about what's best for the team. I think you might be projecting a little there.

On your other point, that's come up a few times--that there's some sort of "healthy" alarm that goes off at certain point....as if the healing process goes "not healthy....not healthy.....not healthy.....HEALTHY!" There's obvious a range of factors to discuss when it comes to "health."

The other point is this weird assumption that all teams operate at the same level. "Well, if the Pats would be willing to trade him, nobody would sign him." Really?? The Pats don't function at a smarter level than, say, the Detroit Lions? If the Pats were to consider trading Brady, I suspect they would find takers. Please.

Last, O'Connell ultimately being the Pats QB is not mutually exclusive with having Cassel here now. That's an obvious point, but apparently it needs to be made.

 

[JSn]

I find it unlikely that the Patriots would get rid of BOTH Brady and Cassel. But if you theory is that they would trade both, I guess that is feasible.

Imagine the haul putting both those guys on the market would bring!
Even in the realm of looking at stuff for entertaining discussion, I couldn't imagine Kevin being ready at all. I'm not sure when he impressed some of these guys, but I know a lot of people already love the dude.

 

[scout]

The fact that this thread is so intense just baffles me. For me, it really boils down to this: If Brady is healthy enough to be traded, that means he's healthy enough to play. Why on earth would we trade a healthy brady away instead of play him? Cassel played better than we expected this year (at least for me) but he should not even be in the same conversation as Brady....you people act as if TB is nearing the end of his career. TB behind center is the best option the pats have for winning....period!

My time to chime in again (I'll use this post to reply to others as well).
First, thanks aluminum seats for your post, said it better then I could have.
About this thread being so intense is because of the emotional attachment to Tom (nothing wrong with that). Deus Irae replies that its a moot issue because of Brady's physcial being. Thus, this discussion should be concluded. Well if that is the case, then so goes every thread pertaining to Cassel in regards to trading or what he might fetch. Gosh, thats not very fun, but the two are interwoven. Problem is, people are not attached to Matt, and thus can dream of draft picks.
Now, to answer your question on why we would "entertain" offers for Tom. Because a healthy Brady brings more loot then a lesser talent Cassel.
Next item. If you of the opinion that Brady is too valuable to trade, then make your case vs bashing other members for their opinions. If this is a contest of who's been a Patriot fan longer or what lengths one would go, then I believe that's a different thread (btw, I remember Carl Garrett's rookie year when he beat out OJ for ROY).

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, so you're fanhood tenure is greater than mine. Congrats.

I'm not a pro-trade-Brady poster, but I am a pro-open-minded discussion poster. I don't have a blind obsession with Matt Cassel. I supported Bill's move early on and he wasn't wrong (surprising).

And your comments are the embarrassing ones. They show no sense of calm or sensibility. This thread could have been much shorter and useful with actual discussion. You may have a good argument, but opening it with calling someone a moron has about the same chance of being heard Al Davis phoning Bill with an offer to coach the Raiders.

Matt is not as good a QB as TFB. Not yet. Could he be? It's ridiculous to think you can make that argument. It's extremely unlikely, but it's equally as unlikely that a QB with 4 SB appearances and numerous NFL records would get drafted at #199 overall.

My only point is that Tom is a known quantity who could win us more SB's, possibly. Matt is becoming a known quantity and is five years younger than Tom. Both (healthy) could yield the tools in trade to build the team for the future. A healthy Tom yields more of those tools.

I'm not advocating we trade him. I'm trying to talk about the value of trading him and making this the jump-off to the next QB of the Pats as oppose to waiting until he retires. I just want some sound discussion and educated opinions on both sides of the fence.

The likeliest thing (Cassel traded, Tom stays, Kevin trains) isn't the only thing. That's why I think it's worth discussing other possibilities. The people yelling and screaming about idiots add nothing and aren't doing a whole lot to make the fanbase look impressive either.

I'm a fan of the Patriots and anticipate being one after Tom is gone, however he leaves. I just want to talk about the what if's and the why or why not's. Why is this considered Trollish behaviour?

The silliness of this thread continues. It's also a possibility that Brady will be kidnapped by aliens who've developed a passion for Human American style football. Let's discuss that instead, since it's probably more likely than Belichick trading brady this offseason by several orders of magnitude

 

[TruthSeeker]

I’m been alternatively amused and impressed by this thread. Amused by the two types of posters who won’t have anything to do with the discussion: the steady stream of one-off posters who throw in a tired one-liner (“yeah, Brady sucks,” “this thread is so stupid!” etc. etc.)

About time for another one of my "this thread is lame" posts.

This thread is lame.

 

[scout]

About time for another one of my "this thread is lame" posts.

This thread is lame.

You don't want to contribute?
You don't have a football opinion?
How about answering this question. If Brady is out for an extended period of time during the next season (a distinct possibility), would you be fine with O'Connell starting at qb given the scenario of Cassel being traded?

IMO, given that the division will be much tougher next year, with the addition of a tough schedule, starting a qb with no experience, there's a good chance the Patriots do not make the playoffs next year (unless you want to believe he will step up as well as Cassel did this year).

 

[mtbykr]

My time to chime in again (I'll use this post to reply to others as well).
First, thanks aluminum seats for your post, said it better then I could have.
About this thread being so intense is because of the emotional attachment to Tom (nothing wrong with that). Deus Irae replies that its a moot issue because of Brady's physcial being. Thus, this discussion should be concluded. Well if that is the case, then so goes every thread pertaining to Cassel in regards to trading or what he might fetch. Gosh, thats not very fun, but the two are interwoven. Problem is, people are not attached to Matt, and thus can dream of draft picks.
Now, to answer your question on why we would "entertain" offers for Tom. Because a healthy Brady brings more loot then a lesser talent Cassel.
Next item. If you of the opinion that Brady is too valuable to trade, then make your case vs bashing other members for their opinions. If this is a contest of who's been a Patriot fan longer or what lengths one would go, then I believe that's a different thread (btw, I remember Carl Garrett's rookie year when he beat out OJ for ROY).

Ok here:

Now, to answer your question on why we would "entertain" offers for Tom. Because a healthy Brady brings more loot then a lesser talent Cassel.

I guess we just see differently on this issue. My priority is how what gives us the best chance moving forward. I believe that are best chance is with Brady behind center rather than Cassel. Now health is irrelevant here simply because you can't trade Brady if he can't pass a physical..so for this argument assume they are both healthy. (and i am still making the argument that a healthy TB + Cassel Trade is far greater for the Pats going forward then a healthy Cassel and TB trade)

Next item. If you of the opinion that Brady is too valuable to trade, then make your case vs bashing other members for their opinions.

Please show me where I bashed other posters for their opinions. Just for clarity here is my post:

The fact that this thread is so intense just baffles me. For me, it really boils down to this: If Brady is healthy enough to be traded, that means he's healthy enough to play. Why on earth would we trade a healthy brady away instead of play him? Cassel played better than we expected this year (at least for me) but he should not even be in the same conversation as Brady....you people act as if TB is nearing the end of his career. TB behind center is the best option the pats have for winning....period!

In no way did i 'bash anyone for their opinion'....being surprised about how quickly people want to ride Cassel and trade TB is not bashing

Problem is, people are not attached to Matt, and thus can dream of draft picks.

Being attached to someone shouldn't be a factor, I am talking facts and my personal opinion here. I believe that TB behind center gives us our best chance to win. We have one of the best QB's of all time in his prime, and people are seriously talking about dumping him for some draft picks after one decent season from Cassel. (not to mention Cassel had a great cast around him, what would those same people be saying if Moss or Welker had gone down) We know what we get with TB....we still don't know what Cassel's career holds